What is 2nd person POV

[Potluck]

Can anyone explain 2nd person POV? Some of my favorite books use this; the first chapter of Winnie the Pooh and Fight Club. The books draw me into the main character far better than any 1st person book I’ve read. Well, the exception is Catch 22.

Why is it that 2nd person is so effective in these books?

Can anyone recommend another book that uses 2nd person?

[CaroGirl]

I think 2nd person POV is devilishly difficult to pull off, which makes it rather rare. I can't think of another novel written entirely in 2nd person. I'll be looking forward to other responses.

[Bubastes]

Bright Lights, Big City is written in 2nd person POV. It works beautifully in that story.

[slcboston]

Wasn't "Bright Lights Big City" written 2nd person? I think it was, though I'll confess I've not read it. And it IS tricky to pull off. Which is also why "Winnie the Pooh" is not, in any chapter, 2nd person. (I know, I just went to my shelf. :) )

Simply saying "you" is not sufficient. If you've got your copy of Pooh handy, you'll note the chapter actually starts in 1rst person - note the use of "I." The use of "you" in that chapter is more of a narrative aside, the equivalent of breaking the fourth wall in stage and screen. As it is in the introduction, as well. When Milne says "you" he is including the reader in the narrative, but it's also very clear the narrator is telling "you" the story.

Though I am loathe to do so, it might also help to remember the Pooh movies Disney has put out - and their use of the narrator as well.

In fact, in many ways the Pooh stories end up being a mix of both 1rst POV and 3rd omniscient POV because there are numerous times when we are taken inside the head of Pooh, stuffed with fluff as it is. :)

To be a true 2nd person POV however, you need to stick with that 2nd pronoun. So, as you read the story you envision yourself in the main role, as you are meant to do. You turn the pages, you follow the words, and you put yourself into the action. And at the least provocation you are reminded that you are NOT in this situation, and that is is something that not only has never, but would likely never, happen to you, and so, for you, the mental image is ruined. :)

[Straka]

Can anyone explain 2nd person POV? Some of my favorite books use this; the first chapter of Winnie the Pooh and Fight Club.

hmmmm I never considered Fight Club to be 2nd person. I may have to read it again.

[James D. Macdonald]

We discussed Bright Lights, Big City over here (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6710&page=259).

[III]

Fight Club, along with several of Chuck's other books are mostly first person narrative, but he slips into second person for entire paragraphs and even entire chapters. Of course his writing purposefully blurs the lines between the characters and skews the perspective of the reader. Diary is another excellent example. When 2nd person is done right it can be very engaging.

[Susan Breen]

There are more short stories than novels written in 2nd person. One that comes to mind is Pam Houston's, "Sometimes You Talk About Idaho.' There's something about 2nd person that pulls me right into the story, and can make the most boring situation feel universal; however, it's really hard to do for a long time without being annoying. Which is why I've never tried it.

[slcboston]

There's something about 2nd person that pulls me right into the story, and can make the most boring situation feel universal; however, it's really hard to do for a long time without being annoying.

Agreed... and at the risk of being risque, I will say the only times I've tried it have been for the, uh, *ahem* personal stories intended for a one-person audience. Then, I've found, it works pretty well. :D

(But those are really closer to short stories - I wouldn't dream of attempting a full-length novel that way. :) )

[Will Lavender]

One that comes to mind is Pam Houston's, "Sometimes You Talk About Idaho.'

Great title!

I like second when it's done well, but if we're talking unusual perspectives, I prefer the collective third, a la Joshua Ferris's Then We Came to the End and Jeffrey Eugenides's The Virgin Suicides.

[Potluck]

So far from what I've read about 2nd person, which has been very confusing; the first chapter of Winnie the Pooh and most of Fight Club is in 2nd person.

Now, seeing as how no one can explain 2nd person clearly, those people that said those to peices were 2nd person may have been wrong. Which makes it even more confusing, but I still love it.

[slcboston]

Now, seeing as how no one can explain 2nd person clearly, those people that said those to peices were 2nd person may have been wrong. Which makes it even more confusing, but I still love it.

Yes. They were. :D

2nd person is the use of "you" in place of "I" (first person POV) or "he/she/it" (third person POV). That's it. :)

Simply saying "you" - as I mentioned above - is not enough. It has to be consistently narrated that way. Just as any 1rst Person would make use of the 3rd person pronouns when addressing other characters, interjecting the occasional "you" to break the 4th wall does not a 2nd person POV make.

My advice to you: find something that is clearly 2nd person, such as "bright lights big city" and read that. Then compare it to things like "Pooh" and "Fight Club." (Although, as someone mentioned, that latter book gets tricky, but it is generally a first person outing.) This is one case where examples, and clear examples, are your best bet.

Again to Pooh: the bulk of the stories are generally 3rd person. "Pooh did this" or "Christopher Robin" did that, with the occasional interjection of an omniscient, 1rst person narrator. As the "you" never partakes in the action of the story and is therefore never a "character" in the book, it is not at any point 2nd person.

(Yes, I went back and double checked it. I have my big book of the collected Pooh sitting right here. :D )

[orion_mk3]

You always thought that writing in the second person would be a terrific challenge, since you were always told not to do it.

In high school, during the lecture on first and third person points of view, you asked about second person and were told, bluntly, that it didn't exist. This seeming contradiction only increased your curiosity.

College brought recognition that the viewpoint did, indeed, exist. But you were still admonished never to use it. "It takes readers out of the action," your workshop professor argued. "People read 'you felt X' and automatically think 'no I didn't!'"

The lack of good examples and constant, dogmatic dismissals of the form cooled your enthusiasm somewhat. After all, do you really want your writing to sound like a Choose Your Own Adventure book? Still, in the back of your mind, there's the dream that one day you'll be able to write something in the form. Something good that will stick, and couldn't possibly have been written from any other point of view.

Then you'll smile and nod, having proved the doubters wrong--having proved that this neglected point of view does, in fact, exist.

[III]

So far from what I've read about 2nd person, which has been very confusing; the first chapter of Winnie the Pooh and most of Fight Club is in 2nd person.


They're basically the same story anyway.

[Potluck]

You are a silly old Jack's Inflamed Rage.

slcboston, Check Pooh again, I believe the narrator talks to the "real" Christopher Robin and says something like You and Pooh go visit… I'll take a look tonight when I get home.

I think going from third POV to second feels natural.

“You wake up at Seatac, SFO, LAX. You wake up at O'Hare, Dallas-Fort Worth, BWI. Pacific, mountain, central. Lose an hour, gain an hour. This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time. You wake up at Air Harbor International. If you wake up at a different time, in a different place, could you wake up as a different person?” Maybe Winnie there Pooh

[josephwise]

Bright Lights, Big City is the only 2nd person novel I've read. I personally thought its use of 2nd person was a complete failure. McInerney could have replaced every "you" with an "I" or a "he" and had the same book. In fact, half-way through the novel I realized the use of "you" had become completely transparent to me. It made for a good opener, and I assume it was meant to give the narrative an accusatory quality, but ultimately I felt it was a cheap gimmick. Maybe this is the same trap most 2nd person attempts fall into. Maybe this is why it's so hard.

I think 2nd can be worthwhile, though. There are a few approaches I'd personally like to see.

First, in a truly accusatory way:

You never did call her again. Why? It wasn't because she did anything wrong; you were just worried she'd have a different tone of voice after the way you behaved. Get over it. People have fowl moods. You're no different. And you're no better. Take a walk and think, maybe, and get some of this heat and noise out of your head. Eddie's probably working tonight. Chance by. Act like you didn't know he'd be there and buy some rolls. See if he says anything, why don't you. Look, he's got someone with him. College girl, probably, working nights. You'd be intruding.

Or, mix it with 1st and take the stream-of-consciousness approach:

Still a little vodka in the freezer, but nothing to mix it with. Doesn't matter. You're not one to chase flavors anyway. What else are you going to do? I need to call the dentist. Find one. Do it on my own instead of whining to Janice until she makes the call for me. God you're such a child, that way. Solve your own problems. Grow up a little.

[maestrowork]

Addressing the readers as "you" is NOT 2nd person narrative. Fight Club, for example, is 1st person. There's always the narrator and he's the protagonist. Bright Light Big City is 2nd person in that the narrator is just the narrator, while the "you" is the protagonist.

[James D. Macdonald]

Now, seeing as how no one can explain 2nd person clearly.....


First person: I'm talking about me.

Second person: I'm talking about you.

Third person: I'm talking about that guy over there.


Clear enough?

[Straka]

Fight Club, along with several of Chuck's other books are mostly first person narrative, but he slips into second person for entire paragraphs and even entire chapters.

That's what I thought too. I just dug up my copy. On a side note I still have to finish Survivor.

I think the trick with 2nd person is many readers don't want to be talked at, its almost like work. They want to read and watch other people play out in stories. A similar reason why interactive movies never took off.

[Potluck]

Addressing the readers as "you" is NOT 2nd person narrative. Fight Club, for example, is 1st person. There's always the narrator and he's the protagonist. Bright Light Big City is 2nd person in that the narrator is just the narrator, while the "you" is the protagonist.

Does this mean the "you" is the reader or just another way of saying I?

[Polenth]

The lack of good examples and constant, dogmatic dismissals of the form cooled your enthusiasm somewhat. After all, do you really want your writing to sound like a Choose Your Own Adventure book? Still, in the back of your mind, there's the dream that one day you'll be able to write something in the form. Something good that will stick, and couldn't possibly have been written from any other point of view.

I wanted to write choose your own adventure books when I was young. I finished one too, hand written on loose sheets of paper so that I could change the story order. I'm starting to feel all wistful about the fact I threw it away now.

[maestrowork]

Does this mean the "you" is the reader or just another way of saying I?


First person:

I went to the bank yesterday with a gun and I held up the bank for fourteen hours. I didn't have an escape plan, but I managed to get out of there with $50,000. Then I went to Mary's place and we took the car and drove all the way to Mexico. It was a good life.


First person while addressing the audience:

I went to the bank yesterday with a gun and I held up the bank for fourteen hours. You would think I'd have an escape plan, but I didn't. But don't worry, I managed to get out of there with $50,000. Then I went to Mary's place and we took the car and drove all the way to Mexico. It was a good life, you know?


Second person:

So you went to the bank yesterday with a gun and held up the bank for fourteen hours. You didn't have an escape plan, but you managed to get out of there with $50,000. Then you went to Mary's place. You and she took the car and drove all the way to Mexico. You had a good life.

[Flay]

A.L. Kennedy's Day, which has just won the Costa (Whitbread) Book of the Year award, is in 2nd person.

[rgb338]

There is a great short story by Tama Janowitz called You and the Boss that starts out with 'you' performing a lobotomy. HAHA

[blacbird]

Bright Lights, Big City is the only 2nd person novel I've read. I personally thought its use of 2nd person was a complete failure.

Concur completely. It came across as pure gimmickry to me.

caw

[Chase]

Hmmmm. As a few have said in this thread but some don't yet believe, there is no "second person" POV. The concept is indeed all smoke and mirrors.

[HeronW]

If I'm reading a novel I know damned well I'm not in it. I always find being addressed as 'you' yanks me from enjoying a story because the author goes off the page.

[Shady Lane]

I LOVE 2nd person and I eagerly await the day it becomes a realistic choice. Or the day I become famous enough that I can use it and still be published.

[James D. Macdonald]

Hmmmm. As a few have said in this thread but some don't yet believe, there is no "second person" POV. The concept is indeed all smoke and mirrors.

What POV are the Chose Your Own Adventure books written in?

[dempsey]

http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/ssmith/misc/points-of-view

That post, I thought, covered POVs very succinctly.

[Linton Robinson]

The big problem was mis-use of the voice. Second person is very initmate. And that dumb McInnery book was full of lines like "You walk out of your building and there's a huge billboard of your wife on the building across the street, advertising....."

Well, no you probably don't, do you? It was exactly that, a gimmick. Probably a dare from his frat buddies or something.

Ticked me off (along with McInnery being so lionized for so little for about 15 minutes in the eighties) because I have done a bit with 2nd person, trying to exploit it's odd characteristics.

I wrote a couple of short pieces in totally subjective voice, which I think has possibilities. "They were about the same age your parents were when they got married and drove the same car your family had when you first went to junior high...."

The idea is creating an image of the story that is unique to each reader. I never developed it to my satisfaction and sure as hell wouldn't write a whole novel that way, but it's an interesting way to work. Or not, as with Bright Lights.

[Linton Robinson]

As a few have said in this thread but some don't yet believe, there is no "second person" POV. The concept is indeed all smoke and mirrors.


Sorry, but that's just not true. As witness several examples in this thread.


Unless you were kidding and I missed it.

[IceCreamEmpress]

Hmmmm. As a few have said in this thread but some don't yet believe, there is no "second person" POV.

Of course there is.

Whether it's a convincing point of view or not, it exists, grammatically.

I personally loathe Bright Lights, Big City but I have read short stories in the second person that worked much better. Karen Joy Fowler has one in her first collection that is great.

However, I think one needs to distinguish between a narrator who occasionally addresses the reader as "you" and a narrative that's about what "you" did. The Fowler story I'm thinking of is from the point of view of an alien describing a human's activities. Then there's something like the Margaret Atwood story "Rape Fantasies", which is an address to a "you" that is ambiguously singular or plural ("You watch the women...you think...") until near the end of the story.

[EelKat]

I collect 2nd person POV books. R. A. Montgomery is by far the master at the art of writing 2nd person, with Edward Packard coming in at a close second.

I recommend that you go the Amazon.com and search for any of the following:

"Choose Your Own Adventure"

"R. A. Montgomery"

"Edward Packard"

"Find Your Fate"

these keywords will take you to any one of over 350 differant titles written in 2nd person POV. (nearly all of which I own and have read, btw)

[Dawnstorm]

Yes, there is a 2nd-person narrator, but I can see how Chase can say it's all smoke and mirrors, because two different distinctions are involved and typology is logically not mutually exclusive. That is: logically, each instance of 2nd-narration is also either 1st- or 3rd-person narration. The actual terminology in use isn't as clear cut. Let me explain:

First, as many have pointed out, occurance of the grammatical person doesn't make the voice. The basic distinction between the 1st- and 3rd-person narrator is not what kind of person they use (many 3rd person narrators talk about themselves in the first person; see George Eliot, for example), it's about this:

1. Is the narrator part of the story?

a) Yes: 1st-person narration
b) No: 3rd-person narration

Now, 2nd person narration is different. The question they ask here is:

2. Does the narrator talk to a character or not?

a) Yes: 2nd-person narration
b) No: regular narration

Notice that the question of whether the narrator is part of the story, and whether s/he's talking to a character or not are two independent question. Most stories are like this:

1a + 2b, or 1b + 2b.

Second-person narration, on the other hand, can come in 2 types:

2a + 1a (character addresses character):

A character addressing another character. This is the basic situation of letters. All epistolary fiction (fiction in letters, e-mails etc.) would fall under this heading. Epistolary fiction is not, normally, considered 2nd-narration. (Actually, many don't consider it "narration" at all, since we're eavesdropping on private communication, but that's going deep into the realm of theory.)

But this situation can exist outside letters, too. Imagine, for example, the story of a filmstar and her stalker, narrated by the stalker. Because of his obsession, he'd adress the star. This would have elements of both 1st-person narration and 2nd-person narration.

2a + 1b:

A narrator addresses a character from outside of the story.

This is what most people think of when they say 2nd-person narration.

Note that in the 1st/2nd hybrid you're an eavesdropper on a state of affairs that's none of your business. Nobody's talking to you.

In 2nd-person proper (3rd/2nd mix) it can go either way. It could be a narrator talking to his creation, or it could be a narrator talking to you as if you were his creation (choose-your-adventure books do the latter).

[eyeblink]

I've used it occasionally in short stories, some of which have been published. It's a "special effect" narrative technique - can be very effective but it does draw attention to itself. (But then people say that about present tense, which I would have said was far more widespread.) One of those stories ("Half-Life", published in F&SF in 1996) started out as first person - didn't like that and switched to second. It's a ghost story narrated by the ghost, so I thought second person was good for a narrator who wasn't actually there, or whose identity was under threat as in "The Day of the Outing" (Roadworks, 2000.)

David Morrell's novella "The Beautiful Uncut Hair of Graves" is second person. A recent novel-length example is Charles Stross's Halting State, which is second person from three different viewpoints. One of the three sections of Jeff Vandermeer's Veniss Underground is second-person (the other two are first and third).

Second person seems to go naturally with present tense. I think there's a short story in second person future tense, and I think Brian Aldiss wrote it, but its title escapes me.

Other examples in this Wikipedia list:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second-person_narrative

[seun]

What POV are the Chose Your Own Adventure books written in?

Those books were great. I used to read them through like a normal book just to confuse myself.

[Chase]

Oh, come on. There’s way too much whimsey in the position that there is second-person narration. A narrator’s point-of-view can be "I saw it" or "She saw it." POV deals with the origin, not to whom the narration is directed.

If say "You saw it," it’s still from a narrator other than the "you" being spoken to.

For example, in Your Own Adventure, "If you choose the blue road, turn to page 7" is an instruction to the reader, "you." It is not by the reader. It’s a directional thing, like choosing "imply" or "infer." I imply to you from my (first person) point of view. Or you infer from me, still from my (first person) point of view.

Be reasonable, the example from wherever is just more whimsey. Just because someone wrote it doesn’t make narration from second person possible: "Second Person . . . This one is fairly easy to describe, and you rarely see it, except maybe in very short horror tales, and in more experimental stories: You walk down the stairs. You turn to the right, glancing in the window, where you see your neighbor eating his dinner. You bend and pick up a rock, hefting it in your hand, before you cock your arm back, and…"

All of the above was TO you, not BY you.

I’m sure some Philadelphia lawyer will be able to make a case that the biographic diary of Chang and Eng Bunker, the original Siamese Twins, talking to each other is "Second Person, Southern Y’all" POV, but it’s really just more whimsey, strained logic, and poor instruction for writers.

[IceCreamEmpress]

You're overcomplicating this, Chase.

A first-person singular narration: "I did this. Then I did that." Moby Dick, for example.

A first-person plural narration: "We did this. Then we did that." The Virgin Suicides, for example.

A third- person narration: "She did this. Then she did that."

A second-person narration: "You did this. Then you did that."


The point of view is determined by the relationship the narrative voice has to the actors in the story, not to the reader. A first-person story isn't in my point of view, it's in someone else's point of view. The narrator stands in a first-person relation to the actors.

[ACEnders]

Am I the only one who doesn't like second person? I ... it does remind me of the choose your own adventure books. Granted, I haven't really read much that is in second person - mainly those choose your own adventure books. And a few short stories. but I don't like it. It feels strange, and I feel like you use the word "you" way too often.

[Chase]

You're overcomplicating this, Chase.


On the contrary, I'm simplifing the concept. No matter whom the narrator addresses, point of view tells the story from the standpoint of an "I" narrator or one describing his, her, or its view.

[dempsey]

In Chase's world, there is only one POV, and that is the narrator, first person.

We're looking at the technicalities of words on paper. He's observing it from some pseudo-philosophical angle.

Whatever. It works.

That said, I hate the "2nd Person POV" because it's so presumptuous.

[IceCreamEmpress]

On the contrary, I'm simplifing the concept. No matter whom the narrator addresses, point of view tells the story from the standpoint of an "I" narrator or one describing his, her, or its view.

You're just logic-chopping here. If a narration can be first-person or third-person, it can also be second-person. A first person narrator describes "my" activities, i.e., using the grammatical first person; a third-person narrator describes "his" or "her" activities, i.e., using the grammatical second person. A second-person narrator is one who describes "your" activities, using the grammatical second person.

Now I'm wondering if, in languages that distinguish between the inclusive and exclusive second person, there are both kinds of second-person narration.

[maestrowork]

On the contrary, I'm simplifing the concept. No matter whom the narrator addresses, point of view tells the story from the standpoint of an "I" narrator or one describing his, her, or its view.

But if that's your definition then there's never going to be anything other than first person since there's always going to be a narrator (even omniscient) and the story will always been told through the narrator.

The point of POV isn't really who is telling the story -- otherwise, why not just simplify everything and say there's only one POV: the author's -- but whose story the narrator is telling. Granted, you really aren't the characters in a 2nd person story, but that's what the author's trying to do, to put you in the chair and experience the story as if you ARE the character.

[Thrillride]

First person: I'm talking about me.

Second person: I'm talking about you.

Third person: I'm talking about that guy over there.


Clear enough?

I really, really love you.

[Thrillride]

Of course there is.

Whether it's a convincing point of view or not, it exists, grammatically.

I personally loathe Bright Lights, Big City but I have read short stories in the second person that worked much better. Karen Joy Fowler has one in her first collection that is great.

However, I think one needs to distinguish between a narrator who occasionally addresses the reader as "you" and a narrative that's about what "you" did. The Fowler story I'm thinking of is from the point of view of an alien describing a human's activities. Then there's something like the Margaret Atwood story "Rape Fantasies", which is an address to a "you" that is ambiguously singular or plural ("You watch the women...you think...") until near the end of the story.

*nodding here*
I wrote an essay called Puppy Junkie:Your Confession in second person because that is how it had to be done in my opinion. That was the essay. I liked it and I still stand by the POV.
That being said, I wouldn't write a novel that way. I wouldn't be able to stand reading one either.

[EelKat]

Those books were great. I used to read them through like a normal book just to confuse myself.

LOL! I've done that too!


2nd person POV is an RPG (role playing game). it is hard to write because you have to write 30 differant ending for the same story.

1.) First Person Account:

http://images2.squidoo.com/resize.php?1187631863&filename=draft_lens1505120module3488654photo_04.jp gWhen I write in first person account, I am telling you the story like it is, the way I saw it happen. I'm telling you this because this is how it affected my family and me. The world has a right to know what happened to us. I am writing this to you in the first person.


2.) Second Person Account:

http://images2.squidoo.com/resize.php?1187631822&filename=draft_lens1505120module3488655photo_shock ed_chicken.gifYou are sitting at your desk ready to write. You are a very good writer, you know this, but you can't understand why writing a second person account is so difficult. You decide to call one of your writing buddies to ask. The phone rings. No one answers. You hang up the receiver and decide to move on to a different writing style. You are tired of writing in second person. If you decide to call you friend back turn to page 12. If you decide to continue writing turn to the next page. If you decide to try writing in third person turn to page 37.


3.) Third Person Account:

http://images2.squidoo.com/resize.php?1187631980&filename=draft_lens1505120module3488656photo_wizar dsparklies.gifWhen Harry writes a book, this is the style he uses most often, because it is the easiest style in which to write. He had tried writing in other styles but this proved to be the easiest format, and so it is the one he uses for almost every book he writes now. He loves to write in third person.

[akiwiguy]

Then there's something like the Margaret Atwood story "Rape Fantasies", which is an address to a "you" that is ambiguously singular or plural ("You watch the women...you think...") until near the end of the story.


I was thinking last night about the effect second-person has on me, and those short fragments of Atwood intrigue me.

I haven't read "Rape Fantasies", but if second person is used the way in it I imagine they might be, it could be quite effective.

It seems to me that it greatly alters one aspect of my experience as a reader, that of reader sympathy for a character. Whether or not I develop a response to some character that is strong enough to carry me through the story is effectively removed from the equation. It would feel to me a bit like getting strapped in a virtual simulator and told, "you've paid your money, and today's thrill is... you are a rapist. Now go for the ride."

Purely stuff I was thinking about as I reflected on this thread, not some great insightful wisdom from textbooks. But it makes me wonder whether it is when that kind of experience I described is the desired effect that 2nd person POV might really come into its own. Not sure, as I've never read enough of it.

[talps]

Second Person most certainly exists, albeit as an endangered narrative species.

When effective - and as others have pointed out, it's very tricky to pull off - I've actually found the style to me incredibly seductive. Many readers are inherently put off by the simple fact that the author is presuming to know how they feel, and it seems to me that a love for 2nd person as a reader is in direct proportion to the skill of the author taking a shot at it. It's cetianly a niche narrative, if you will.

Bar none, the most skillful of second person authors (IMHO) is Lorrie Moore, who absolutely inspired with most of the short stories in her debut collection Self Help. If you want to see how it's done, buy this book. It elevates the style from a more simple "you do this, then you do that" account into something far more atmospheric and riveting.

[Linton Robinson]

Sorry Chase, but your simplification doesn't fly. Chang and Eng have nothing to do with it, by the way. That would be a case of Plural point of view. First person Plural POV tot much done...although Ayn Rand's "Anthem" has a deal about using "We" for everything. So does the AA Big Book. And newspaper editorials.

You walk into a room, you see a gun over the mantle. "You" are the point of view. It's that simple.

[wayndom]

Simply saying "you" - as I mentioned above - is not enough. It has to be consistently narrated that way. Just as any 1rst Person would make use of the 3rd person pronouns when addressing other characters, interjecting the occasional "you" to break the 4th wall does not a 2nd person POV make.

Good point. One of the many definitions of "you" is "me." As in, "You just can't win," in which "you" can mean "you," "me," or anyone else.

[eyeblink]

I forgot about Lorrie Moore, and I have read that collection. So that's another example.

Joyce Carol Oates has used a first-plural "communal" voice now and again, most notably in her novel Broke Heart Blues.

[Shweta]

Didn't see it mentioned, but Susan Palwick's short story Gestella is entirely second-person, and that's a lot of why it gets you in the gut.
(so to speak).
Very worth looking up.