Who can you trust/how can you protect your brilliant novel/synopsis/screenplay?

[Quadrillion]

Hey guys. This could be fun.

So suppose you've written a novel with a lot of original stuff, and a storyline (characters, plot, action, etc) that is Pure Hollywood - good enough to get Producers salivating. Agents want to see the first fifty pages and a good synopsis.

Keeping in mind that Joe Esterhaus received several million dollars for three pages of notes, how do you, the writer, ensure that your synopsis doesn't end up in the wrong hands, or that, about the time your novel is hitting the stores, a movie with a similar storyline (and maybe different dialogue) isn't hitting the big screen?

I realize that most agents are reputable, but suppose you've run into one who thinks your writing is good, but not quite, in his opinion, good enough. What is to keep an agent from working a six figure deal with a known screenwriter? I mean, people get killed all the time for a few thousand dollars. Should you just plain trust someone that you've never talked to, and risk your life's work?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and opinions.

[Birol]

I moved this thread from Novels to BWQ.

[Queen of Swords]

I realize that most agents are reputable, but suppose you've run into one who thinks your writing is good, but not quite, in his opinion, good enough. What is to keep an agent from working a six figure deal with a known screenwriter? I mean, people get killed all the time for a few thousand dollars. Should you just plain trust someone that you've never talked to, and risk your life's work?

I don't know what other option you have if you want to see your work in print, short of submitting directly to a publisher. But again, this means you have to trust someone. So the only option left would be self-publishing, which is a whole 'nother ball game, requiring a lot of money, time, knowledge and energy above and beyond writing the book.

And on that note, many of us think we've written masterpieces and dream of seeing our work on the silver screen. That doesn't mean agents will think our manuscripts are worth losing their reputations and risking lawsuits over. If your (generic your) manuscript is the stuff that Oscars are made of, why shouldn't the agent keep you in her stable and have you churning out more gold instead?

[Birol]

Keeping in mind that Joe Esterhaus received several million dollars for three pages of notes, how do you, the writer, ensure that your synopsis doesn't end up in the wrong hands, or that, about the time your novel is hitting the stores, a movie with a similar storyline (and maybe different dialogue) isn't hitting the big screen?

This may well happen, because there are a limited number of ideas and plots in existence. There just are. It's not really about the idea, but about what we, as writers, do with it. However, if there is a movie with a similar storyline hitting the screen at the same time as your book is hitting the shelves, that's not necessarily a bad thing. Your book can then be tied to the movie in order to generate more marking.

I mean, people get killed all the time for a few thousand dollars. Should you just plain trust someone that you've never talked to, and risk your life's work?

Do you, or have you ever, dated? What's to prevent the person that you don't know that well, but who you are willing to go out alone with, from being a complete and total sociopath? In such cases, you may be risking more than your life's work. You may be risking your life. Yet, people still date, even in this day and age.

What they do, in order to minimize the risk, is research. They get referrals for dating partners from trusted sources. They learn, both from their own and other people's experiences, what the warning signs are. They minimize or cut-off contact if their spidey-sense starts tingling. As a result, the majority of people aren't killed by sociopaths when they go out for dinner and a movie with a virtual stranger.

[Quadrillion]

If your (generic your) manuscript is the stuff that Oscars are made of, why shouldn't the agent keep you in her stable and have you churning out more gold instead?

No doubt that going the book route is far safer than screenwriting. Worse comes to worse, I can Ebook it and sue. I'm sort of leaning toward a synopsis that retains some mystery, holding the possibility of one more thorough if the agent likes the pages submitted.

[Quadrillion]

I don't know what other option you have if you want to see your work in print, short of submitting directly to a publisher.

Speaking of which. I've found the process of getting an agent fairly interesting in and of itself. You can send one a pretty darn good query, promising original ideas, original action sequences, masterful character development etc etc etc... only to get a letter back saying "It doesn't quite peak my interest."

As my query has improved, so have the responses.

HOWEVER, that said, I am still without an agent. It has occurred to me, and I have heard others say, get yourself a publisher, and the agent will come easily. Does anyone have any experience contacting the publisher's directly with a kick-ass query letter?

[IceCreamEmpress]

What is to keep an agent from working a six figure deal with a known screenwriter?

Your having a good lawyer.

And an agent isn't going to get enough money out of one fraudulent deal to make up for his or her having to leave their relatively well-paying profession forever.

I mean, seriously, I'm sure your idea is wonderful and all, but it's not $100,000 a year for the next 20 to 30 years' worth of wonderful.

[Quadrillion]

Your having a good lawyer.

And an agent isn't going to get enough money out of one fraudulent deal to make up for his or her having to leave their relatively well-paying profession forever.

I mean, seriously, I'm sure your idea is wonderful and all, but it's not $100,000 a year for the next 20 to 30 years' worth of wonderful.

You're probably right on the first two points, although you do need real proof to get anywhere.

NOt sure what you're trying to say on your third point, but ever heard of The Great GAtsby? Still sells 200,000 to 300,000 books a year (more than it sold, I believe, when Fitzgerald was still alive.) How about Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy? Lord of the Rings?

[ishtar'sgate]

. Does anyone have any experience contacting the publisher's directly with a kick-ass query letter?
I sold my novel directly to a publisher. After some bad luck with an agent it was the best way to go for my first novel. The publisher has done a good job for me and I'm happy with the results.
Linnea

[Birol]

NOt sure what you're trying to say on your third point, but ever heard of The Great GAtsby? Still sells 200,000 to 300,000 books a year (more than it sold, I believe, when Fitzgerald was still alive.) How about Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy? Lord of the Rings?

Do you think these books were stolen?

Do you really believe that you've written a book that's going to be an instant classic?

Look, if there were any question about a book's ownership, a publisher wouldn't publish it. They definitely wouldn't keep it in print. That type of controversy just isn't good for business. What you are suggesting is that agents are somehow more inherently dishonest than writers or editors. That's not the case. It's just not. Yes, there are unscrupulous agents out there, the same as there are unscrupulous editors and writers, because, at the end of the day, writers, editors, and agents are all people, with all the failings and shortcomings that such a condition entails. That does not mean all editors, writers, and agents are unscrupulous, because most people aren't unscrupulous.

However, unscrupulous agents and editors/publishers -- we call them 'scammers' -- don't make their money by stealing unsuspecting writers' work. They make it by telling them that the work is great, it's wonderful, it's fabulous, that it's the best thing they've seen since The Great Gatsby, since Tolkien, and that they are going to "give them the chance they deserve." All the writer has to do is believe in their work enough to invest $xxxx.xx to help offset the "risk of publishing" and that they (the agent or publisher) will help them get their book into stores across the country.... This is what you have to look for. This is how unscrupulous agents and editors, who are looking to steal from writers, do it. They do not steal the manuscript.

[Bufty]

I wouldn't trust anybody at all, Quad. I suggest you play safe and lock your brilliant masterpiece away in a box, padlock it, put it under the bed and throw the key away.

Then in X years when you pass away it will be discovered - -------- and pinched by whoever finds it. But you won't be in a position to worry about it -so problem solved.

Of course, he will be making all the money and not you. But you can't have it both ways. Hmmm. :snoopy:

[allenparker]

However, unscrupulous agents and editors/publishers -- we call them 'scammers' -- don't make their money by stealing unsuspecting writers' work.

It is much easier and more profitable to steal from the author's bank account than from their manuscript files.

If you remember Uncle Jim's famous words, "Money flows to the author," you will be fine.

Finish the book;send it out. You are as safe as anyone else.

[CaroGirl]

It's highly unlikely for anyone in the publishing industry to steal an unpublished author's work. Quite frankly, until it's published, it's barely worth the paper it's printed on.

Besides, if someone steals your work and you can prove it, you might make more on the lawsuit than you would have on selling the book in the first place!

But if you do decide it's not worth the risk to send it out to agents and publishers, I guess that's one fewer query competing with mine.

[Bubastes]

It is much easier and more profitable to steal from the author's bank account than from their manuscript files.


Exactly. If I were a scammer, why would I want to steal someone's manuscript when stealing money directly from the author's bank account is quicker, easier, and much less risky? Taking money from naive, self-important authors is a simple matter. Turning a manuscript, ANY manuscript, into money is MUCH harder.

[DeleyanLee]

your life's work?

Is it just me, or is that phrase wrong?

I'm not that old and I've written more than 20 novels. True, I haven't sold any yet, but I've written them. I seriously do not think of a single novel as "my life's work". If you want any kind of career in the writing gig, a single novel, screenplay, whatever better not be the sum total of your life's output.

That's not to say that the novel isn't valuable, but let's put things in perspective here. If one of my novels were snatched by the (unlikely) unscrupulous agent, I'd fight for my rights and my share of the money and take them down without a doubt.

But, that's one product in a lifetime of many. It's not everything I'll ever write. One particular novel isn't even guaranteed to be the best I'll ever do because I'm not done writing yet--there's always odds that what I'll write next will be better.

Or is it just hyperbole that I missed in my new "must cold turkey off caffeine" state of mind?

[aka eraser]

Theft is a very common fear among budding writers. It's invariably twinned with a fairly bad case of Golden Word Syndrome.

The good news is, most everyone outgrows it within a few years of weathering rejections. :)

[BlueLucario]

If you want to protect your work, there is a thread somewere that you can check, I forgot the name but I think it's "Beware"

Do you know a copyright company that can protect your work for free?

[Quadrillion]

Besides, if someone steals your work and you can prove it, you might make more on the lawsuit than you would have on selling the book in the first place!

Good idea. If I can just get Michael Crichton to steal my novel!

[Quadrillion]

Is it just me, or is that phrase wrong?

I'm not that old and I've written more than 20 novels. True, I haven't sold any yet, but I've written them. I seriously do not think of a single novel as "my life's work". If you want any kind of career in the writing gig, a single novel, screenplay, whatever better not be the sum total of your life's output.

That's not to say that the novel isn't valuable, but let's put things in perspective here. If one of my novels were snatched by the (unlikely) unscrupulous agent, I'd fight for my rights and my share of the money and take them down without a doubt.

But, that's one product in a lifetime of many. It's not everything I'll ever write. One particular novel isn't even guaranteed to be the best I'll ever do because I'm not done writing yet--there's always odds that what I'll write next will be better.

Or is it just hyperbole that I missed in my new "must cold turkey off caffeine" state of mind?

I don't reaally look on it as a life's work. But year's of work - Absolutely. I've read alot of stuff, and I have a pretty good feeling about this. It is quite something.

[BlueLucario]

Besides, if someone steals your work and you can prove it, you might make more on the lawsuit than you would have on selling the book in the first place!

.

Okay, then how would you know if your work is stolen? I ask out of curiosity.

[Toothpaste]

Copyrighting a work at this stage is a bad idea because when/if you get a publisher it makes making changes to the MS very difficult. Don't bother.

Look here's the thing, there is always a risk, and I would venture to add "especially in Hollywood with screenplays" because you do hear horror stories of stolen screenplays, but again, these are the exceptions rather than the rule.

There was a thread in the agenting forum about agents and money, and what it came down to was an issue of trust. Of course you have to be careful and smart, and read anything you sign etc, but the fact is no reputable agent/publisher will steal your work. They just won't. So I guess the solution to your problem is not to submit to bad agents/publishers.

I don't know much about screenplays. I would say your best bet would be to get an agent for that as well. I don't know who all writes screenplays here, but Little Jane, who hasn't been here recently, has an agent for screenplays so maybe you should send her a PM. Until you acquire an agent, I would advise against going into any meetings with producers etc on your own. Take legal representation with you.

But the novel thing? The chances are so slim that someone will steal your work that it is just not worth worrying about it. Work on finishing your novel instead.

[Bubastes]

Folks, I just want to dispel the myth that a lawsuit is a lottery ticket, okay? There's a reason why lawyers have such nice stuff. Where do you think that money comes from? ;)

[CaroGirl]

I don't reaally look on it as a life's work. But year's of work - Absolutely. I've read alot of stuff, and I have a pretty good feeling about this. It is quite something.
In my rather limited and sheltered experience, an author is often a poor judge of his own work. Only the reader (which includes agents and editors) can really assess one's work.

I often hear authors say that the piece they loved the most is the one that didn't sell, yet the story they had the least confidence in is the one beloved by millions.
Okay, then how would you know if your work is stolen? I ask out of curiosity.
Dunno. I suppose you'd have to see out there in print, with your own beady little eyes.

[CaroGirl]

Folks, I just want to dispel the myth that a lawsuit is a lottery ticket, okay? There's a reason why lawyers have such nice stuff. Where do you think that money comes from? ;)
My comment about the lawsuit thing was made tongue-in-cheek. I don't actually think launching a lawsuit against someone who's stolen your work would be a fun and adventurous way to make some cash.

[Bufty]

What?

Blue, you have copyright on your work automatically the moment you put it onto paper, disc, hard drive, slate or whatever.

It costs nothing.

Bewares and Background Checks Forum doesn't protect your work - it simply gives information on Agents and Publishers in case you wish to check them out.

Never heard of a copyright company.

The copyright is usually registered by your publisher but you have copyright from the moment you create the 'writings'. It's yours as of then -the registration is a business matter and doesn't create your copyright -it simply registers it.

You don't need to register it at all.




If you want to protect your work, there is a thread somewere that you can check, I forgot the name but I think it's "Beware"

Do you know a copyright company that can protect your work for free?

[DeleyanLee]

Do you know a copyright company that can protect your work for free?

Copyrighting is done by the Library of Congress in the US. IIRC, it was about $45 for the process and takes about 6 months before you get the paperwork. You can get all the paperwork online at www.loc.gov (http://www.loc.gov). It's not hard.

Any company that does it for you (without being your publisher) will have to charge you more to handle the matter.

I've never heard of any companies that do this, OTOH. Seems like it could be a ripe field for spammers to pluck, really.

[Stew21]

Select agents who have had success selling works similar to yours. Select agents who are members of AAR. Select agents who work for reputable and well-known agencies that work with top publishers.

That's the best way to secure your work. Chose to send it to Reputable professionals.

[DeleyanLee]

You don't need to register it at all.

While you do have copyright as soon as you write it down, if you actually have to go to court for any reason the only legal way to prove you have the prior existing document is the registration of the copyright with the Library of Congress. Mailed-to-yourself envelopes with postmarks aren't admissible and haven't been for at least 20 years.

That said, it's highly unlikely that someone is going to steal an unpublished work because it's too much effort without a guaranteed pay-off.

Why steal something unpublished when it's so easy to plagarize published works and get away with it for years before someone notices it and starts a stir? And even then, it's not that much sweat off your nose--pay a fine and wait 5-7 years and start writing again.

Honestly, though, I've heard more reports of stories being stolen by critique groups than agents or editors.

However, getting back to the copyright registration for a moment--make certain when you sell that the publisher DOES get that registration. Harlequin didn't used to get US copyrights because it's a Canadian company (don't know if that's still true), but when one of their authors got plagarized, the fact that they didn't register her copyright was a major stumbling point in the prosecution, IIRC. The small press I published with also did not register my copyright, I had to do it myself.

The big trick is--be aware and know what you're getting into. Listen to your gut about the people you're dealing with at every step.

[callalily61]

I don't reaally look on it as a life's work. But year's of work - Absolutely. I've read alot of stuff, and I have a pretty good feeling about this. It is quite something.

Quadrillion, when I finished my first ms, I thought it rocked.

2.5 years and seven--yes, seven--rewrites later, it got me an agent.

I looked at that first version last year, before I tossed it into the recycle bin. Oh. My. Gosh.

Then I emptied the bin. Readers everywhere will thank me for that. :)

[Bubastes]

My comment about the lawsuit thing was made tongue-in-cheek. I don't actually think launching a lawsuit against someone who's stolen your work would be a fun and adventurous way to make some cash.

I knew that -- I wanted to make sure other readers knew that too. :)

[Roger J Carlson]

Never heard of a copyright company.There are companies out there that claim to copyright your manuscript for you. What they actually do is register your manuscript with THEMSELVES for a small fee. This is a scam because: 1) as others have pointed out, your work is automatically copyrighted as soon as you write it, 2) it offers no additional protections than the ones you can provide yourself, 3) it is not anything at all like registering your copyright with the LoC and has none of its protections.

[zegota]

No one will steal your work. I promise you. It is not worth it; not in the slightest. Novels and screenplays are not inherently profitable. It takes a lot of work to make them that way.

[maestrowork]

Copyright registration is done through the government. And you think Uncle Sam is not going to charge you for that, think again.

It's rare (but not impossible) for an unpublished work to be stolen. Copyright registration alone is not proof. Be smart and protect your work -- create backups and a trail of your masterpieces (computer files, hardcopies, email, etc.) just in case. But really, unless your ms. or screenplay is so outrageously marketable, no one is going to pay attention -- and if it's that marketable already, you should have no problem finding a buyer, right?

People do steal ideas (unfortunately, ideas can't be copy protected) and treatments (fortunately, treatments can be copyrighted), especially in Hollywood -- why do you think there were two volcano movies out the same year? I've talked to the guy who wrote Snakes on A Plane originally. Paramount later developed and produced the film without even giving him the credit -- fortunately, he's a lawyer and eventually he got the studio to give him "story by" credit, etc. So it does happen. However, he had already sold the option before... so technically it's not "unpublished."

Be smart, but don't get too paranoid. Chances are, if you can't sell your own ms., someone else can't either.

[Birol]

Screenplay theft is an entirely different ballgame than respectable agents stealing novel manuscripts.

[ColoradoGuy]

The good news is, most everyone outgrows it within a few years of weathering rejections. :)
Not to mention the withering ones.

[Roger J Carlson]

Not to mention the withering ones.I never outgrow withering rejections, but I have outgrown worrying about someone stealing my manuscript.

[IceCreamEmpress]

You're probably right on the first two points, although you do need real proof to get anywhere.

After Buchwald v. Paramount, studios are very very antsy about stuff like this.

NOt sure what you're trying to say on your third point, but ever heard of The Great GAtsby? Still sells 200,000 to 300,000 books a year (more than it sold, I believe, when Fitzgerald was still alive.) How about Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy? Lord of the Rings?

None of those books were blockbusters when they first came out, so you're actually proving my point. If someone had stolen one of those books, become embroiled in litigation, lost their jobs, and been unable to find work ever again, they would have been SOL because it was YEARS before any of them started paying off.

So even if you have come up with the Next Big Thing, it's not worth it for a reputable agent to risk everything in his or her life in order to steal your idea.

[dreamsofnever]

I've actually read (can't remember which agent blog it was) that agents and publishers will be VERY unhappy if you copyright something before they acquire it. First-it shows a lack of trust for them (especially if you don't mention it) and second, it makes you look very unprofessional.

And, as someone else mentioned, it makes it more difficult to make changes after the fact, etc.

As everyone else mentioned, keep copies of your work on your computer. Email it to yourself (that's timestamped) and share it with reputable agents and publishing companies. I would definitely recommend finding a crit group that you can trust too. It's GOOD to get feedback from other writers on your work. Most crit groups are comprised of writers who are genuinely looking to improve their craft, not sharks waiting for the off chance that someone will walk in with a fantastic manuscript so they can steal it.

But honestly, how many situations have you heard of where a novel manuscript was stolen? Something like that would make headlines if the novel became a bestseller. And really, I have never seen a story about that. Ever. If anyone else can direct me to a link with a story like that, I would love to see it.

[Quadrillion]

While you do have copyright as soon as you write it down, if you actually have to go to court for any reason the only legal way to prove you have the prior existing document is the registration of the copyright with the Library of Congress. Mailed-to-yourself envelopes with postmarks aren't admissible and haven't been for at least 20 years.

Last year I took it a few printed chapters and a CD down to the Post Office where I keep my PO Box, and told them what I was trying to do (get a date on my work). THe postal worker seemed unsurprised and told me that I needed to mail it in a certain way (I can't remember, for the life of me, what that was.)

We had to seal it up tight, I gave her a few bucks for whatever and she walked it around to my box. I can't believe if all the documentation is authentic that a court wouldn't pay it deference.

[Quadrillion]

Quadrillion, when I finished my first ms, I thought it rocked.

2.5 years and seven--yes, seven--rewrites later, it got me an agent.

I looked at that first version last year, before I tossed it into the recycle bin. Oh. My. Gosh.

Then I emptied the bin. Readers everywhere will thank me for that.

This is something I've been working on for four or five years. I don't want to know exactly how long. Had the same experience with my first draft. What junk. Horrifying. (FYI, if it ever went to court, those early drafts could be important). But I'm now between five and ten rewrites (more for some chapters, less for others) and only now is it ready. Two friends are about one-third of the way through it and they say it rocks - something I already knew. An agent is waiting for pages as we speak, but first I have to jack with this synopsis. I know one thing, I won't be forwarding it electronically.

I've been pretty careful about the "secrets" in this novel. I have to cringe though when I see things like two major hollywood blockbusters about asteroids hit theaters at the same approximate time.

[Danger Jane]

This is something I've been working on for four or five years. I don't want to know exactly how long. Had the same experience with my first draft. What junk. Horrifying. (FYI, if it ever went to court, those early drafts could be important). But I'm now between five and ten rewrites (more for some chapters, less for others) and only now is it ready. Two friends are about one-third of the way through it and they say it rocks - something I already knew. An agent is waiting for pages as we speak, but first I have to jack with this synopsis. I know one thing, I won't be forwarding it electronically.

I've been pretty careful about the "secrets" in this novel. I have to cringe though when I see things like two major hollywood blockbusters about asteroids hit theaters at the same approximate time.

Agents aren't generally writers, and they don't do writers' jobs for them.

I think you are being just a little paranoid. And why would you sacrifice selling your novel for a synopsis that won't give up the secrets of your novel (ie, the things that would make it unique)?

Agents see hundreds of synopses every single day. Only the ones they'd consider representing, or at least giving the MS a read-through, stick in their heads at all. Give them something vague, even intentionally so, and they aren't going to applaud your secrecy...they're going to pass, at least in many (unnecessary) cases.

Like other posters have said, it's a trust relationship. If you submit to reputable agencies, you have nothing to worry about. Virtually NOTHING.

Millions of authors' stories have never been stolen in the submission stage...or any other stage prior to publication. Do you have any actual history to back up your fears?

[Danger Jane]

Last year I took it a few printed chapters and a CD down to the Post Office where I keep my PO Box, and told them what I was trying to do (get a date on my work). THe postal worker seemed unsurprised and told me that I needed to mail it in a certain way (I can't remember, for the life of me, what that was.)

We had to seal it up tight, I gave her a few bucks for whatever and she walked it around to my box. I can't believe if all the documentation is authentic that a court wouldn't pay it deference.

All that authentic documentation can be counterfeited by a really tenacious thief.

Registering copyrights just aren't particularly necessary.

[Queen of Swords]

Two friends are about one-third of the way through it and they say it rocks - something I already knew.

Unless the friends always evaluate work critically, this doesn't necessarily mean there'll be a similar reaction from anyone else permitted to read your story.

As for your knowing this as well - we all know our work is good. Doesn't mean it gets snapped up by agents or editors either.

[Pup]

So even if you have come up with the Next Big Thing, it's not worth it for a reputable agent to risk everything in his or her life in order to steal your idea.

Exactly. And if agents had a way to turn stolen ideas (or any ideas) into bestsellers, why would they be giving away their best ones here (http://www.maassagency.com/thismonth.html) each month to writers to use for free? I think that's a pretty good example of the monetary value agents place on ideas.

[Quadrillion]

Exactly. And if agents had a way to turn stolen ideas (or any ideas) into bestsellers, why would they be giving away their best ones here each month to writers to use for free? I think that's a pretty good example of the monetary value agents place on ideas.

Just for argument sakes, don't agents talk regularly with their top clients (writers)? Say one represents a best selling writer who is working on his fifth book, sure to be a big hit, but he's stuck on something, or he's not happy with his story - it's missing something. Does anyone think that his friend, the agent, isn't above throwing out an idea or concept that would solve the problem and get that novel to the publisher? Maybe a concept that he picked up in a synopsis?

I mean agents aren't out there to screw people, but they are only human. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they don't talk to their writers or discuss their story issues

[Queen of Swords]

Different writers are going to do different things with ideas. For instance, my agent is submitting a manuscript of mine. I got the idea from reading Anne Bishop's Daughter of the Blood, but by the time it had filtered through my head, I'd put my own spin on it and you couldn't tell it had anything in common with Bishop's book other than them both being fantasy. Another manuscript of mine is inspired by a piece of Diablo II fan fiction. You won't be able to tell the original source from that either.

I think it's highly unlikely that there's a writer with a Quadrillion's-Secret-Concept-shaped hole in his or her manuscript, and even more unlikely that you will coincidentally send your work to the same unscrupulous agent who happens to represent this writer. But hey, if you're that worried the agent might steal concepts from your synopsis, submit it without any details. I'll be interested in hearing what kind of responses you get.

[Danger Jane]

Just for argument sakes, don't agents talk regularly with their top clients (writers)? Say one represents a best selling writer who is working on his fifth book, sure to be a big hit, but he's stuck on something, or he's not happy with his story - it's missing something. Does anyone think that his friend, the agent, isn't above throwing out an idea or concept that would solve the problem and get that novel to the publisher? Maybe a concept that he picked up in a synopsis?

I mean agents aren't out there to screw people, but they are only human. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they don't talk to their writers or discuss their story issues

No, you are not wrong that agents talk to their writers.

But virtually every plot element there is has already been used. The key to a good story is a good, unique combination of elements and a good, unique execution. The fact is, my third plot twist inserted into your story as the first plot twist doesn't take away the originality of my plot. It doesn't make my plot twist cliche or hackneyed or anything like that. Every story is related to every other story, and theft, or plagiarism, is a major departure from the normal borrowing and sharing of ideas.

You never answered my question. Do you have a single example of an agent stealing a writer's story?

[Birol]

What you're really talking about is Parallel Development, Quadrillion. It's not the same thing as theft at all. Different writers have similar ideas all the time.

I would lay odds that I could name multiple books that are similar to yours that have already been published. Some are probably better executed. Some may or may not be worst. What you have to do is get over yourself. Stop thinking that your story is The Story and move forward with the submission process. If you don't, the only way you will ever be published is to self- or vanity publish. This is the way the business operates and it's not going to change for one writer, no matter what they've written.

[CaroGirl]

Ideas are a dime a dozen. Anyone can have an idea. I could give the same idea (say, your idea) to five different writers. You know what I'd get? Five completely different stories. A story is not an idea. A story is unique characters, descriptions, settings, plot and scenes that come together to make a complete and unique story. It's what you do with your idea that sells.

If you query agents, you absolutely must disclose the plot of your book in your query. There's no two ways about it. If you don't, you'll be rejected outright. There are too many great queries coming across an agent's desk to bother with one that's a puzzle of self-important vagueness.

[Queen of Swords]

Ideas are a dime a dozen. Anyone can have an idea. I could give the same idea (say, your idea) to five different writers. You know what I'd get? Five completely different stories.

Here's an example.

An aristocratic woman marries a man lower than her in both social status and money, because she can't have the man whom she really loves. They have a daughter who, like her mother, falls in love with a man whom she can't have and marries someone else instead. Despite this, she has a child by the man she loves, but the child dies. She loses the man in the end.

Margaret Mitchell made this into Gone with the Wind.
Colleen McCullough made this into The Thorn Birds.

Both different, both extremely successful.

[Quadrillion]

You never answered my question. Do you have a single example of an agent stealing a writer's story?

Didn't see your question the first time. Answer: If I did, I probably would have led with that. But I'm not sufficiently in tune with the writing community to know. Hence this thread.

Again, I don't know anything about these agents. But I know that there are some great unused ideas out there, and I know that Hollywood will pay big bucks to the right person with the right idea.

[Danger Jane]

Didn't see your question the first time. Answer: If I did, I probably would have led with that. But I'm not sufficiently in tune with the writing community to know. Hence this thread.

Again, I don't know anything about these agents. But I know that there are some great unused ideas out there, and I know that Hollywood will pay big bucks to the right person with the right idea.

Hollywood is a different world than the publishing world. They're interrelated, but separate, spheres.

Basically, this never happens, and as many others have pointed out, even if someone else did take your synopsis and write it themselves for the page or for the screen...it would be different than what you wrote. And you could probably still repackage that original story to sell it anyway.