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View Full Version : ¿Do we have to like the MC?


Viola2007
03-10-2008, 08:58 PM
My novel is a historical fantasy. The heroine/protagonist is a character that possesses certain magical powers and a capacity to work for “good” or “evil” forces. In the beginning, she is just starting to learn about her powers. Events will sway her to do right and wrong until she decides which path to follow.
A friend of mine read the first chapters and said she thought the MC (Nikki is her name) was a negative character and she didn´t feel for her. She also pointed out that Nikki lets events condition her moves and she is goalless. Well, in the beginning Nikki is supposed to be an unlovable character and have only one objective, survival. I got the feeling that my friend would not read further since Nikki put her off. Do we (as readers) have to love characters to read about them? What about characters that start as bad and later redeem themselves, as it is Nikki´s case?

seun
03-10-2008, 09:03 PM
We don't have to like them but we have to care what they're doing and why.

DeadlyAccurate
03-10-2008, 09:07 PM
Do we (as readers) have to love characters to read about them?

Pretty much, yes. But that doesn't mean characters have to be good. If that were the case, we'd never have assassin or serial killer fiction. They don't even have to redeem themselves. They just have to be someone the reader enjoys spending time with.

Your character can be the most cold-hearted, ruthless, me-first person in the world, but we the readers need to identify with her on some level. We have to enjoy reading about her, even if we don't approve of her actions.

writin52
03-10-2008, 09:26 PM
My novel is a historical fantasy. The heroine/protagonist is a character that possesses certain magical powers and a capacity to work for “good” or “evil” forces. In the beginning, she is just starting to learn about her powers. Events will sway her to do right and wrong until she decides which path to follow.
A friend of mine read the first chapters and said she thought the MC (Nikki is her name) was a negative character and she didn´t feel for her. She also pointed out that Nikki lets events condition her moves and she is goalless. Well, in the beginning Nikki is supposed to be an unlovable character and have only one objective, survival. I got the feeling that my friend would not read further since Nikki put her off. Do we (as readers) have to love characters to read about them? What about characters that start as bad and later redeem themselves, as it is Nikki´s case?
Personally, I find bad characters often have a morbid fascination for me. If I found your Nikki character well-written, I would continue to read just to see how far down she would go or if hitting bottom would change her. As she is the MC, I would stay with her just to find out!

DeleyanLee
03-10-2008, 09:30 PM
Do we (as readers) have to love characters to read about them? What about characters that start as bad and later redeem themselves, as it is Nikki´s case?

Do we have "love" them? No, not at all.

However, if we want readers to follow someone through the course of the book, we have to show that the characters are worth following in someway. For heroes, they need definite strengths in the very first introduction that, at least, hints to the reader that this is a good person. The more hints of strengths (and I mean personality strengths that most people want to believe in: courage, honesty, seeking justice, etc) you can put into an evil-appearing character, the more likely people will trust you to redeem that character by the end of the book.

If all you present is negativity and nastiness, then there's no hints that there's anything about this character that a reader can admire, so there's little point in reading a story about them. Unless, of course, the back cover blurb promises that they're going to be soundly trounced and even that can be iffy.

Do we have to love them? No.

Respect, admire, cheer for during the course of the story? Definitely. Loving them is just bonus points.

Patrick L
03-10-2008, 09:31 PM
We don't have to like them but we have to care what they're doing and why.

BINGO! Someone said this to me about one of my stories before my other readers correctly pointed out that they were fascinated what he would do next.

Look at Day of the Jackal; the protagonist was a killer, but quite adept at what he did. It was entertaining to millions, even though they may not have liked him.

Soccer Mom
03-10-2008, 09:42 PM
I'm struggling with this in a book I"m reading. The writer has hinted at the changes the MC will go through and I see the fall and renewal coming, but for now, he's so darn misogynistic and unlikeable that it's a tough slog to get there.

RedScylla
03-10-2008, 09:57 PM
I'm going with this one. I have a protag whose death at the end was hailed as good and deserved by readers, but not one of them complained that they didn't care what he did or what happened to him. He wasn't "evil," but he was certainly in the wrong for much of the book, and dangerous.

We don't have to like them but we have to care what they're doing and why.

ETA: Take American Psycho, for instance. Patrick Bateman certainly isn't a likable character, but Ellis makes reading about him pretty riveting.

IceCreamEmpress
03-10-2008, 11:35 PM
I think the "directionless" issue is MUCH more problematic than the "unlikeable" issue.

If a character just lets things happen to them, that's boring.

DWSTXS
03-10-2008, 11:46 PM
I have a character who is unlikeable, and I'm hoping that readers will stick with him, just to see if he gets what is coming to him

Stew21
03-10-2008, 11:53 PM
The character needs to be interesting and we have to care about what will happen next. We do not have to like the character.
There are some pretty vile Main characters out there which is fine as long as the reader wants to continue hearing about that character's story.

johnzakour
03-11-2008, 01:50 AM
If the main character is interesting enough you probably don't have them be likeable but i think it helps.

I had somebody once tell me about my first book, "I liked everything about it but the main character." I came away from that thinking they didn't like the book.

Dale Emery
03-11-2008, 02:07 AM
I think the "directionless" issue is MUCH more problematic than the "unlikeable" issue.

I was thinking the same thing. And the problem is fixable: One possible fix is to start the story closer to the point where the character chooses a direction.

Another is to give the character a goal and frustrate it. It doesn't have to be a big goal. Kurt Vonnegut used to tell his classes to give the character something to want. It doesn't have to be a big thing. It can even be just a glass of water. The way the character deals with the obstacles will tell us something interesting about the character, something we can care about.

Dale

PastMidnight
03-11-2008, 03:44 AM
Interesting question and one that I am grappling with right now. One of my MCs is being taken advantage of and is making poor decisions. I've been worried that this will make her unlikeable to a reader.

Nightfall
03-11-2008, 04:07 AM
I have to not dislike the character and I also have to be made to care about the character.

I think you received a helpful critique from your friend. I think that a MC without a goal and who lets things just happen wont make for a gripping story. Nikki will have to take control and be an active player. That might be a nice opportunity for character growth when she finally decides to stop being pushed around by events and starts to do something about it.

Danger Jane
03-11-2008, 07:54 AM
The character needs to be interesting and we have to care about what will happen next. We do not have to like the character.
There are some pretty vile Main characters out there which is fine as long as the reader wants to continue hearing about that character's story.

Absolutely. Some of my favorite protagonists have been totally, completely unlikable. Some of my favorite protagonists to write have been totally, completely unlikable. All it takes is a writer skilled enough to draw you into the head of this twisted, awful person so their logic makes sense to you, even when in the real world you would hate them.

Novelhistorian
03-11-2008, 08:51 AM
I think the "directionless" issue is MUCH more problematic than the "unlikeable" issue.

If a character just lets things happen to them, that's boring.


I agree with this. Readers don't have to like the MC, but they must identify in some way with him or her. And it's much easier to identify with someone who acts or struggles against something, even if it's the evil within, than with someone who just floats along, inert and passive, waiting for the next ripple.

Novelhistorian
03-11-2008, 08:51 AM
I think the "directionless" issue is MUCH more problematic than the "unlikeable" issue.

If a character just lets things happen to them, that's boring.


I agree with this. Readers need to identify with, more than like, a main character, and it's easier to identify with someone who takes strong action, struggling against something, even if it's only the evil within. A character who floats along passively is hard to put across even if s/he's a good sort.

lute
03-11-2008, 09:17 AM
I agree with this. Readers don't have to like the MC, but they must identify in some way with him or her. And it's much easier to identify with someone who acts or struggles against something, even if it's the evil within, than with someone who just floats along, inert and passive, waiting for the next ripple.

The first book that came to mind when I saw the thread was The Stranger by Camus. I didn't like the main character, Mersault, at all but for some reason I could identify with him, and I felt a bit of sympathy for him. Perhaps it was the whole existentialism theme that Camus wanted to portray, but I was surprised when I didn't hate the story, because I surely didn't like his character, or any of the characters or the plot to be honest. Usually that would equal hatred or disinterest for a book, but I read it a year and a half ago and yet I still remember it vividly (and not with detest)? Interesting, hm?

V.W. Singer
03-11-2008, 10:10 AM
I'm not so sure that a totally unlikable MC would work. He or she can be a really evil SOB, but there must be something in the character that the reader will identify with or admire. I don't think that many readers will follow a story through just to see what happens if they cannot relate to the character in some way even if it is a shared love for goldfish.

All of us have had fantasies of strangling a spouse, dumping a noisy child in the trash bin, shoot your boss, blowing up Inland Revenue or wrecking your best friend's impossibly perfect marriage. We just don't actually do it.
Everyone has got a bit of evil in them, so the evil MC should be written to appeal, just a little, to our suppressed emotions. Even the actual villains in stories need to resonate just that tiny bit, otherwise they are carboard targets set up for the hero to knock down.

rhymegirl
03-11-2008, 04:39 PM
I was worried about this while writing my WIP. I wasn't sure whether she is likable or not. So I'm trying to give her a number of qualities including a sense of humor to help make her likable.

Also, I like the idea of having someone start out a certain way, then change as the novel moves along. I think if you can show that someone has a lot of problems which make her act a certain way, readers will understand and identify and accept her more. I think we need to make characters multi-dimensional so that readers will see the whole person and therefore care what happens to them.

dawinsor
03-11-2008, 04:58 PM
I thought about how I react as a reader and decided that, for me, a lot depends on how the writer "places" the character. That is, if I dislike the character, find him shallow for instance, and the writer apparently thinks the MC is a great guy, then I get so annoyed, I stop reading. But if I judge the character is selfish, and the author clearly does too, then I'm fine as long as the character is interesting. In other words, I react to how I believe the author is judging *me* as a reader. What does the author think I'm going to like and approve of?

PastMidnight
03-12-2008, 04:39 AM
I thought about how I react as a reader and decided that, for me, a lot depends on how the writer "places" the character. That is, if I dislike the character, find him shallow for instance, and the writer apparently thinks the MC is a great guy, then I get so annoyed, I stop reading. But if I judge the character is selfish, and the author clearly does too, then I'm fine as long as the character is interesting. In other words, I react to how I believe the author is judging *me* as a reader. What does the author think I'm going to like and approve of?

Interesting way of looking at it. I think this is the difference between a poorly written character and a well-written, yet flawed character.

Smiling Ted
03-12-2008, 05:41 AM
We don't have to like them but we have to care what they're doing and why.

Seun is right on the money. Likable? Worthy of respect? Not necessarily. Interesting? Yes.

One more thing that hasn't been mentioned:

Never, never, NEVER let yourself be thrown into doubt by just one critique!

If three or four people say the same thing, listen. But always reserve judgment until you get more feedback than just one person.

Queen of Swords
03-12-2008, 05:45 AM
Look at Day of the Jackal; the protagonist was a killer, but quite adept at what he did. It was entertaining to millions, even though they may not have liked him.

I was just about to mention The Day of the Jackal! The guy was a ruthless killer, but he was 1. intelligent and competent 2. single-mindedly pursuing a goal 3. vastly outnumbered by the French police. I couldn't put the book down.

Shweta
03-12-2008, 06:04 AM
Moved to Basic Writing Questions.

Chasing the Horizon
03-12-2008, 06:31 AM
I do think readers have to like at least one of the main characters to really enjoy the book. What I've noticed, however, is that the characters readers like aren't necessarily the ones you think they would, or characters who would be very likable in real life. I was very surprised when all my beta readers said they liked the cold-blooded professional killer in my first series book better than the abused slave girl who finds the courage to escape her captors (several even said they liked the killer better than my hero, who's about the most 'likable' character ever created!). By all rights, an extremely arrogant and completely unapologetic assassin who has no deeper reason than money behind her actions should NOT be more sympathetic than a young woman trying to deal with deep emotional trauma and find her true love. But that's not how readers saw it for two reasons 1) the assassin's dark and sarcastic sense of humor is hilarious, and 2) the assassin always has a very strong (if wrong) goal, while the ex-slave is just along for the ride during a lot of the book. This makes me believe that any character can be liked by readers so long as they have a sense of humor and a strong goal (even if said goal is completely immoral).

But another thing I learned with my series was that readers don't have to like all your characters in order to keep reading and enjoy the book. In fact, the same character all my betas were neutral towards (or actively disliked) in the first book died in the second book, and some of those same readers were literally in tears. Not because they liked the character any better, but because they all LOVED her husband, who loved her. I suspect I would've had a lot of angry betas if I'd left that character they all claimed they didn't like dead.

My advice to Viola would be to either change Nikki's character so she has a stronger sense of humor and goal OR to add a second major POV character who is more likable. The second character can hold readers' interests until Nikki's goals and character become stronger.

seun
03-12-2008, 04:06 PM
Dracula. Hannibal Lector. Pennywise. Voldemort.

Not exactly the most likeable characters in the world but interesting. We care about why they do what they do. Personally, whether I like a character or not is second to whether I care about who they are and what they're doing. If I don't care, chances are I won't read much more of the book.

HeronW
03-12-2008, 04:21 PM
Hannibal Lector is not someone I'd have at a dinner party but I find him fascinating. Evil is exciting to write, and motivations for the wrongful acts of the fictional baddies gives us insights into why they do so. make us care and we can forgive anything.

giusti
03-12-2008, 04:31 PM
Also, I think it is important to consider the change in the character here. If the character doesn't change, the manuscript is generally unsuccessful (unless the lack of change is the point that the author wants to make). I think that if you possibly made the character very likable, and easy to relate to in the beginning, and then pushed evil into her, that could be effective as well.

Of course, I have no idea whether this would work plot-wise, so it may be a miscalculation on my part. But it's something to think about.

-giusti

JimmyB27
03-12-2008, 06:04 PM
Check out any of the Flashman novels by George MacDonald Fraser. Harry Flashman is a cad, a bounder, a self absorbed coward and a serial adulterer, who only married his wife in the first place because he got her pregnant. In short, he is an utter bastard.
But it works. The books are beautifully written, and while Flashy is an absolute git, you can't help but love him just a little bit.

Viola2007
03-12-2008, 10:22 PM
Smiling Ted, you are sooo right. One critique should not disturb the writer. Beware of ambiguous critiques. Most negative appraisal is poorly expressed, does not mean what you’re hearing, and ends up confusing you
I might as well tell you how this whole story ended.
I pointed out to my friend that Nikki is a very active character and I asked her to expand on why she considered her a negative character. My friend said, finally, that she didn´t see Nikki as an evil or even negative character (aside from an early comment that she resented Nikki harboring no love for a mother who abandoned her at birth).Her problem was that Nikki didn´t seem to be in enough “danger” or she didn´t act as a damsel in peril.
In my novel, Nikki is pursued by her mother’s killer. This character, liked Voldemort in the Harry Potter saga, is around but that doesn’t hinder Nikki from dealing with everyday challenges and trying to enjoy life even if living in a hostile environment. Moreover, she has come under the guard of a strong spirit, and that makes her feel protected. I also pointed out that the Voldemort threat doesn´t stop HP from living. My friend’s answer (as usual) was “I haven’t read HP.” In truth, she hasn’t read fantasy at all, she doesn´t like the genre.
Since 2005, I am striving to write “seriously.” I have finished four novels (three are first drafts, but one I consider as finished) All of them are fantasy. So far, I’ve had only one Beta Reader. We are good friend and we exchange opinions and editing comments, but she doesn’t read or like fantasy, so I am always doubtful about following her directions. Specially, since I read that fantasy follows its own rules.
Hope to the Horizon, I just read your comment. I love your advice. I will endow Nikki with sense of humor.
In one of my early drafts, the MC was an addict, and a schizo, while the heroine was a wholesome sensible girl. My brother hated her. He was in love with Mac, the MC, because he had a sense of humor and he could see through people’s foibles.