The Challenge of Fantasy Writing

[Nateskate]

There are challenges to writing. And you can read about them in virtually any writers magazine or forum. However, Fantasy and Sci Fi have troubles that are unique.

I'm not an expert, so I'd really like help on this one from you Fantasy experts. But in writing, I've found so many pitfalls that you would not find in other Genres.

Here's a short list of problems, especially if your fantasy is unique and does not rely on common themes.

1) If you are creating a world with new concepts, you have to provide definitions without gumming up the entire story. If you don't already have a framework (Previous story that explained these terms) you are forced to become a "teacher". I once got into a conversation with a person from another culture who came to America. They had never seen or heard of a Hot Dog, and you have to explain what it is. You can give them color, shape, texture and a comparative taste, but sometimes your explanation doesn't sink in until they've taken a bite. The same is true with "Ice Cream". Try explaining chocolate to someone that has never tasted chocolate before.

The problem is that you can't take anything for granted. And yet, you walk this tightrope, because the more you define, the more you bog down the flow of your own story.

2) You have to take that definition and coin a phrase or give a concept a name. Lets say you have a world of Blogs. Their are good blogs and bad blogs. Well, you can only say, "The virtuous blogs" and "The dastardly blogs" so many times before you are sick of hearing the phrase. So, you come up with names like Virlogs and Wickogs.

So, if you use a phrase repeatedly, it must be given a proper name, which means (if you did not anticipate that) you'll have to go back and rewrite parts of the story.

3) You MUST keep a notebook with "names" and "definitions". You may have a concept when you start out, but you will find the need to add more names, terms and definitions than you can keep track of. Otherwise, you will be spending hours trying to recall if Laketown was actually Laketon, and whether you put it in chapter four or five, and have to re-read two chapters to find it. In fact, you may forget that you already had a "Laketown", and create a second Laketown, one in the south and one in the north. And you must remember, "WHO CAME FROM WHERE". In chapter one, that may be fresh memory. But the story may take longer than the weekend vacation you planned, and six months later, you are trying to jog your memory.

4) You must have a rough map. Otherwise, when you refer back to Laketown in chapter twelve, you remember whether it was east, west, north or south of Bluesville. And write down each new town and its proximity.

Feel free to add or comment.

 

[victoriastrauss]

Nate, any of the issues you've listed apply equally to historical fiction, and all of them are aspects of the larger problem of conveying an unfamiliar context to the reader while simultaneously telling an engrossing story.

Obviously, the less explaining, the better. Much can be made clear through context and never explained at all, and not everything needs to be explained at the outset. Nor does the reader need to know everything the author knows; part the challenge of writing fantasy is deciding not just what explanations you need but which you can skip. Whatever explaining/teaching is done, I believe strongly that it should be organically integrated into the narrative--my heart sinks when I pick up a fantasy novel and see that there's a huge glossary at the back, where the basic concepts are laid out like a cheat sheet.

In general I try to avoid special names and phrases. The way I look at it is that fantasy is literature in translation, and in translating you use the closest applicable English terms. Thus a rabbit is a rabbit, not a weeble, unless there's a really compelling reason to make it otherwise. A pet peeve of mine is books about, say, Russia, that have all the characters speaking ordinary English but saying "Da" and "Nyet". Similarly, I dislike fantasy that's gratuitously larded with foreign terms in an effort to make it exotic.

Another thing I try to do, to cut down on confusion, is not to give names to characters and places unless I must. This avoids bombarding the reader with funny names--especially important if you have a complicated setting and a large cast of characters.

I do keep a style sheet, to which I add names, terms, and definitions as I create them, and I draw rough maps to keep me oriented. I do most of the basic world building in advance, but specific settings I usually develop in detail only as I come to them in the course of writing.

- Victoria

 

[CACTUSWENDY]

WOW... ........I'm just a crime writer.....i had no idea your world of creativity was so involved. Me and my pea brain could never keep that much information in line. (Loved Harry Potter......but sure lots of 'extra info' that was needed)
My hat is off to you and your kind.....~~~~~~Wendy~~~~~

....................

 

[katdad]

Similar challenges here

In writing mysteries, the challenges are similar. One thing about writing ANY fiction that's based in our modern world is that you don't have to fill in the world history and culture. Those are huge challenges for fantasy and SF.

But in my ongoing series of private detective novels (based in modern Houston, Austin, and surrounding areas), I keep a series of spreadsheets and memos to myself that contain the facts of the novels' world view. My books are meant to be realistic and therefore this is mandatory.

In other words, I keep extensive bios for the principal characters, and I use a Houston street map to ensure that the travel times and movements are legitimate.

But fantasy does indeed have other significant requirements, as you so eloquently described. And all that backstory needed to fill in the gaps, so that the "world" of the novel is fleshed out, can be quite complex.

Frankly, this is one reason why I don't read fantasy. As much as I love Roger Zelazny, I gave up after maybe 3 novels in his Amber series. I got tired of keeping all the siblings straight. And that wasn't an extremely complex set of books.

You are totally correct on the need to establish backstory in fantasy. And it's something I simply don't wish to burden myself with, reading or writing.

But that's my personal preference.

 

[azbikergirl]

In general I try to avoid special names and phrases.

To an extent, I agree. I don't populate my fantasy world with Janes and Bobs and Joes. I prefer short uncommon names that the reader won't have trouble pronouncing: Brodas, Rogan, Warrick, Daia, etc. Sometimes I take a regular name (Denise) and "fantasize" it (J'Nese).

I agree that it's not always necessary to explain stuff to the reader. If it's integrated well enough, she'll make sense of it as she goes.

 

[MacAllister]

Sometimes I take a regular name (Denise) and "fantasize" it (J'Nese).

Ahhh...see, that's a throw-the-book trigger for me, when I'm reading. I have just enough linguistic background that there better be a darn good reason to start dropping gratuitous apostrophes, or it sets my teeth on edge.

 

[SRHowen]

That’s one that gets me. Names of things. In historical or even in writing about a culture most people know little about. I have had beta readers that didn’t know what a trash midden was, or what a breech clout was, or what parafleches are--and these are not made up things, or made up names. Add in first person and it is a balancing act that can drive you bonkers.

In third person you can put a few tags here and there to explain what is what--he kept his pemican in a small decorated parafleche, a small raw hide bag. But I hate those in reading and to me they are glaring author voice. If you are going to put the explanation in there then just call it a small raw hide bag. In first person, unless the person is not a member of the group you are speaking of--they would not think of a parafleche as a small hide bag. This applies to fantasy as well. To be true to your characters you have to use the terms they would use.

Time to get creative, and this also brings more life to the writing.

He kept the pemican in a small decorated parafleche. His wife had made it last fall from a cast off peace of rawhide. She’d worked many hours on the intricate bead work . . . beads she found in the dirt after the other women were done with their daily gatherings. His fingers tightened on the bag--if only they had accepted her, she might not have been bathing alone when the bear came.

By putting details into context the reader can go ahhh, ok, a parafleche is a rawhide bag used to store things. Then leave it--don’t spoon it to the readers again and again. Respect their intelligence to remember what the "thing" is.

And to second what Victoria said if a rabbit is a rabbit then it’s a rabbit. Only make up words for things that have no comparison in the language you are writing in. And then use a simple term, easily remembered and use context to explain what you mean.

Shawn

 

[Terra_Aeterna]

I agree that less is more with explanations of a lot of fantasy/sf stuff. Over-explaining leads to info-dumps, and perhaps we should trust our readers to be able to imagine some of the details for themselves.

 

[SRHowen]

Oh and katdad--if you haven't driven in Austin lately--it is a nightmare. They are putting in a mess of those criss cross over and under each other roads--the autobahn, with drivers who haven't got a clue and traffic that either zooms bumper to bumper or you sit and breath exhaust for hours while they clear away the wreckage with those pylons for the new roads looming as near as the concrete dividers.

Bad bad bad.

Shawn

 

[Richard]

When it comes to names, if I can't pronounce it, I generally don't remember it that well. One of my biggest annoyance is when fantasy authors insist on giving absolutely everything flowery names - so the hero rides his Horsow across the Vale of A'parachi to destroy the Plutarch of Kalberion with the Promise of Dawn, casting Ruani spells against the Krok'thaw and the evil Nebelguun - every last syllable thrown in just so the reader doesn't forget that they're reading a book set in a fantasy world and not, say, Belgium.

...and then the quest stops while everyone sits down to eat a sandwich, etymology be damned, because even the most etymoligically ambitious fantasy author somehow never seems to bother trying to come up with a new word for a slice of meat between two pieces of bread. If only that would go just that one step further and just call a spade a spade, a rose a rose and an elf, well, you get the idea.

 

[reph]

Ahhh...see, that's a throw-the-book trigger for me, when I'm reading. I have just enough linguistic background that there better be a darn good reason to start dropping gratuitous apostrophes, or it sets my teeth on edge.

Mac, I'm with you on the apostrophes.

R'eph

 

[HConn]

Keep in mind, though, that exotic fictional settings are one of the major allures of reading fantasy. Your readers *want* to find out more about your setting. It's one of the reasons readers buy fantasy novels rather than cozies or Connecticut Divorce novels.

As long as it's cool. Your setting has to be cool to keep people's attention.

H'Conn

 

[brinkett]

When it comes to names, if I can't pronounce it, I generally don't remember it that well.

Same here. I have a hard enough time remembering large casts of characters with english sounding names. My brain refuses to register exotic sounding ones. Just pretends they aren't there. If I have to keep flipping back to figure out who so-and-so is because every time I see the name, it's unfamiliar, I stop reading the book.

 

[Nateskate]

Not here/not now

There is a tremendous balancing act in fantasy. Obviously it can be done. Tolkien created several languages. You didn't need to know them to understand the story, but it is rather interesting to learn what Elrond means. That "El" means both "star" and "ellf"...etc.

But that is more than the average reader wants to know. Actually, the idea of a fantasy, especially set in another world, or even an unknown age, is the idea that you are there, and not in L.A. So, you can't have Sly pulling out a pistol on Hollywood and Vine and waxing the Dragon's backside.

Obviously, this is another part of the balancing act. You are always in between "Too much and Too little" on virtually everything. The names, the places, the events.

Describing too little leaves people scratching their heads. Describing to much leaves them bored and overwhelmed, because the story becomes daunting.

Without Beta Readers, I'd be lost, because sometimes you get too close to your own story, and need someone to tell you where there's too much or too little.

But if you look at it as a historical piece. Once upon a time Plato and Aristotle were weird sounding names. If you can tollerate a good mythology, which most can, it shouldn't be too hard to muddle through a decent fantasy.

But again, some fantasy stories are more complex than they need to be. I'm hoping to avoid these pitfalls, and if they exist in my story, I'm hoping I get a really insightful editor.

By the way. Is there a spell check on the new board? If so, where?

 

[Richard]

Keep in mind, though, that exotic fictional settings are one of the major allures of reading fantasy. Your readers *want* to find out more about your setting.

To be honest, I review one hell of a lot of fantasy books as part of my day job, and I'm often left with the impression that the author wants to write about it more than anyone could ever conceivably want to read about it. Obviously, there are exceptions - but what often catches my attention is when I'm reading something that is quite blatantly Tolkein rip-off drivel that thinks it can stay unnoticed by filling itself with...and I mean no disrespect to fantasy authors here, as done well, it's a genre I like very much...dyslexic drivel that seems to have been named by randomly bashing keys. Fantasy is a genre, but too many writers think of it as a setting.

In general, the ones that work for me are the ones where the author's started out with a particularly good concept, rather than trying to clog up Middle Earth with apostrophes, double-barrelled names and ancient wizards who can chart the fundemental nature of all reality, but haven't yet mastered the use of contractions.

 

[Richard]

But if you look at it as a historical piece. Once upon a time Plato and Aristotle were weird sounding names.

Plato was a nickname.

The kids I feel sorry for are the ones with names like 'Deathsmasher' or 'Starkiller'. Talk about having limited career options...

 

[azbikergirl]

I have no problem with fantasy authors using words I don't know -- as long as they are either defined in the story or found in a dictionary. Increasing my vocab is a nifty perk. Now, I tried to slip in a very old word for moustache (knevel) which is not in any dictionary except maybe OED. My beta readers got frustrated, even though the context was there for them to make the connection. In the end, I ditched the word. It's not about wow-ing the reader with fancy words. It's about telling the story.

I don't use apostrophes in names as a general rule, but putting two consonants together that don't normally go together (J & N) seems to beg for one.

 

[katdad]

Excellent method!

>>Time to get creative, and this also brings more life to the writing.<<

Your description of the parafleche fabrication is superb. A great way to describe things to the readers without boring them.

 

[Andrew Jameson]

There is a tremendous balancing act in fantasy. Obviously it can be done. Tolkien created several languages. You didn't need to know them to understand the story, but it is rather interesting to learn what Elrond means. That "El" means both "star" and "ellf"...etc.

But that is more than the average reader wants to know.

Tolkien created several languages, yes, but he was also an academic with an extensive background in ancient words and languages. If anyone were capable of creating a plausible-sounding language, it'd be him.

Unfortunately, there seems to be a contingent of writers who think constructing a language for a fantasy novel would be really cool (because Tolkien did it!), and they tend to make a hash of things -- because honestly, English is hard enough, and making up a language filled with words and syntax and foreign concepts, out of whole cloth, is too big a task.

 

[katdad]

Austin

Oh and katdad--if you haven't driven in Austin lately

Not for a while, but it's increasingly urbanized, that I know. This summer I intend to come up to Austin for a weekend and scout things out a bit, so I can accurize my new novel.

Some of the Austin locales will only be described nostalgically, as they are long gone: The Armadillo World Headquarters, the Uranium Savages, and some other fond memories.

The present items will be "The Drag", Moon Towers, the re-opened UT Tower, a couple of restaurants, Zilker Park, Barton Springs, the Driskill hotel, Sixth Street, and other places.

My protagonist went to UT and became close pals with a Russian emigre, Gregor Yevshenko. Dr. Gregor Yevshenko's now professor of comparative anatomy at UT, and has a big old house over near Red River where he, his wife, and teenage daughter live.

He's been receiving telephone threats and that's why his old college roommate, Mitch King, comes up from Houston to stay a few days.

I've got quite a bit of current event Austin locales to check out, photograph, and get into my book.

 

[tjwriter]

Keeping It Simple

I am currently working on my first fantasy novel, and I am going to try to keep it as simple as possible.

My names aren't Sara or John, but I try to keep syllable count low it they are really funky or phonetic if they are long. It helps at least to me.

Also, I am going with the premise that if it is something commonly found in fantasy, it needs little-to-no explaining, and things I have named differently can be discovered in context in 5 seconds. My goal at least.

I haven't discovered anything yet that needs extensive explanation, but then I am not very far along either and the story is starting to decide things itself. I will tackle them as I come along.

 

[katdad]

Creating Languages

Tolkien created several languages, yes, but he was also an academic with an extensive background in ancient words and languages. If anyone were capable of creating a plausible-sounding language, it'd be him.

Or he.

The only other writer whom I know to have created a "language" is Anthony Burgess in "Clockwork Orange". As you know, Little Alex speaks a mix of English, Russian, Gypsy argot, and patchwork slang.

It's a stunning accomplishment, and as you correctly state, very difficult.

When these wannabe writers attempt to create this sort of complex artifice, it normally falls flat.

 

[Deleted member 42]

On things mythic and linguistic

Suzette Hayden Elgin created a language. It's not a series of books that appeals to me so I've not spent much time on it. I know she created a grammar text and a dictionary--she's a linguist.

C. J. Cherryh spends a great deal of thought and attention on world building, and it shows. She's thought deeply about languages and cultures, and has the right kind of back ground academically to create languages successfully. She's the only writer I've seen that I felt approached Tolkien.

Klingon has been pretty fully fleshed out as a language, again, by a linguist.

On of my pet peeves of late have been heroic / mythic fantasies based on Celtic myth. Now, I like Celtic myths. Really. A lot, in fact, but I can't bear reading books that Get It Wrong. For instance, books that use Celtic words for character names, without checking carefully, like the person who named a female lead "Napkin" in Welsh.

I also have been traumatized by people mixing various Celtic languages and mythologies together since they're "all the same."

They aren't.

I've diligently avoided things Celtic in fantasy for a while now because I suspect I'm unfairly harsh.

World building and taking detailed character notes are not something associated with genre fiction alone; Dickens, for instance, was obsessive about character detail and back story, and made copious notes.

 

[mistri]

I just can't read Celtic myth fantasy because it bores me. Can't really tell you why, but it seems to be universal regardless of author. I don't like urban fantasy much either - perhaps because I prefer other world fantasy to our world fantasy.

When I *attempt* to write fantasy myself I try to keep names short and memorable, and the worldbuilding on the right side of developed, as opposed to overdeveloped.

What I think many writers find difficult (including myself) is knowing how much readers can work out from context, and how much has to be explained (subtly, of course). Think of the Steven Erikson books, where the reader is dropped right in the middle of the story, expected to pick up everything as they go. I personally found his work difficult to follow at times, but I appreciate that he doesn't condescend to the reader. I tend to over-explain, when the reader probably doesn't need to know whatever I've told them anyway.

 

[Kate Nepveu]

Y'all might be interested in this panel on exposition from last year's Worldcon.