Publish America - The best thing to EVER happen to unknown authors

bstevens · Dec 31, 2006

SC Harrison said:
If you can derive satisfaction from knowing 50 or 75 people are going to read your book, then I am happy for you. But don't operate under the illusion that each sale will generate more sales, and with a lot of work your book will gain the attention of a lot of people, because it won't. Trust me, I've been there. Your first royalty check will be the biggest, because it's friends and family (mostly), and you will want to believe the second one will be even bigger, but it won't even come close.

As far as promoting and purchasing books, please please please be careful, Barbara. I had three different newspaper articles about my book, and each one only generated a few sales. As far as consignment is concerned, setting up the deal with the bookstore is the easy part. It's not really a sale until a reader carries it to the counter and buys it.

A lot of us here are former PA authors, and every approach to this has already been tried numerous times. As long as you are prepared for the few sales I referenced above, and as long as you refrain from trying any expensive marketing plans, I hope you enjoy the experience.

Now I agree with that wholeheartedly. I am not going to incurr major expenses I can't afford and thus far only spending $11/mo on a good website eventhough I could have gotten a free one and $30/month on an E-newsletter that I control myself. It is $30/month and I can discontinue both of these whenever I like.

I am trying hard to identify my niche market. I think it is women. Did you look at my website www.barbarastevensbooks.com?

I would love to hear different experiences about ads in newspapers, radio/blog interviews, bookclubs or selling at bookfairs if anyone has had those experiences.

MMo · Dec 31, 2006

bstevens said:
You also have to look at the other options of an UNKNOWN UNPROVEN author. No traditional publisher will trust you UNTIL YOU PROVE YOU HAVE AN AUDIENCE. PA is giving you the opportunity to prove yourself.

That is just not true. I sold my first manuscript over the transom to a well-known house. True, it was just a mass market paperback release, but it went on to sell 80,000 copies U.S. retail and was released in many languages and countries, twice in Japan, the second time fourteen years after the first time.

I used that contract to get an agent some folks on this board salivate over the prospect of getting. I met him at a writers conference where I was introduced to him by another client of his. I met the senior editor of a branch of the house that had published me. All of this would have done no good had I not had another book ready to go.

What publicity did I do? Well, the library in my hometown hosted an autographing for me and gave me the key to the city; a large grocery store ordered in two hundred copies and hosted an autographing for me; a local discount store didn't hold an autographing but ordered in two hundred copies of my second book and a hundred of my first and put in special shelving for the couple of weeks it took to move them. Other than that, I just wrote and went to the conferences I already attended.

I went on to write, and sell to major publishers, a total of sixteen books before life intervened and I stopped writing.

Now I copy edit for a well-known house. That publisher does publish new authors; I know, I've worked with their manuscripts. That publisher pays each of them an advance against royalties. It pays an in-house editor to work with the manuscript; it pays me several hundred dollars to copy edit the work, it pays a cover artist, a typesetter, a proofreader to make sure the changes get into the corrected copy, a second proofreader to do a cold pass for layout and obvious errors that may have slipped past the rest of us, a printer. It has a distributer that sees that the books get into book stores, on-line venues, and magazine racks. It pays royalties promptly and accurately. Now tell me, who gives whom the better chance.

Oh, yes. Of the books I wrote, I could purchase copies for my own self, but not for resale, at a fifty percent discount, and when I purchased on that discount, I did not have to pay postage on the shipment. Please check your costs for getting your books to you. Last I heard it was so much for the first book and an additional cost for each additional book, way beyond what normal shipping would be, provided that an author had to pay for the shipping.

So, please enjoy the honeymoon with PA, but please watch your words. You're really going to hate the taste of them as you eat them after the first royalty statement.

Mo

Birol · Dec 31, 2006

bstevens said:
I'm a black person, speaking about black writers. Some famous ones who sold out of cars are Zane (now that she proved herself she has her own imprint with a major publisher), E. Lynn Harris, etc., and they had to pay thousands for books to be printed UP FRONT.

The internet is truly color-blind, as it is sex and gender-blind. Until I checked out your website, I did not know if you were a man or a woman and until you brought up race, I did not know that either. I assume you are a citizen of the US, but only because you're published with PublishAmerica and the US is their primary market, and their market is writers, not readers. A true commercial publisher, or traditional publisher as PA calls the commercial publishers, target readers.

As a reader, I do not look at the author photo or do research on the author before buying a book. I look at the text to determine if it is something I wish to read. I'm a bit of a text-slut that way. As long as it gives me pleasure, I'll go along with it.

The information you're posting here, about PA giving you a chance and the methods you are going to use to make certain success happens to you, are not unique to minority authors either. Most authors who have signed with PA and who stop by to tell us that we are wrong and that they are glad PA has given them the chance have said the same things. Sex, gender, ethnicity, none of that matters.

There are always exceptions to the rules. There will always be one author who happened to make the seemingly impossible work, but relying on that one author to give you hope is unrealistic. Far better to research and look how the majority of those who have succeeded have done so and model yourself on them instead of on the exception. If your inspiration must be minority authors, then you're far better to look to Mosley Walter (whose talent and insights I greatly admire), Ernest Gaines, and Paule Marshall.

bstevens · Dec 31, 2006

MMo said:
That is just not true. I sold my first manuscript over the transom to a well-known house. True, it was just a mass market paperback release, but it went on to sell 80,000 copies U.S. retail and was released in many languages and countries, twice in Japan, the second time fourteen years after the first time.

I used that contract to get an agent some folks on this board salivate over the prospect of getting. I met him at a writers conference where I was introduced to him by another client of his. I met the senior editor of a branch of the house that had published me. All of this would have done no good had I not had another book ready to go.

What publicity did I do? Well, the library in my hometown hosted an autographing for me and gave me the key to the city; a large grocery store ordered in two hundred copies and hosted an autographing for me; a local discount store didn't hold an autographing but ordered in two hundred copies of my second book and a hundred of my first and put in special shelving for the couple of weeks it took to move them. Other than that, I just wrote and went to the conferences I already attended.

I went on to write, and sell to major publishers, a total of sixteen books before life intervened and I stopped writing.

Now I copy edit for a well-known house. That publisher does publish new authors; I know, I've worked with their manuscripts. That publisher pays each of them an advance against royalties. It pays an in-house editor to work with the manuscript; it pays me several hundred dollars to copy edit the work, it pays a cover artist, a typesetter, a proofreader to make sure the changes get into the corrected copy, a second proofreader to do a cold pass for layout and obvious errors that may have slipped past the rest of us, a printer. It has a distributer that sees that the books get into book stores, on-line venues, and magazine racks. It pays royalties promptly and accurately. Now tell me, who gives whom the better chance.

Oh, yes. Of the books I wrote, I could purchase copies for my own self, but not for resale, at a fifty percent discount, and when I purchased on that discount, I did not have to pay postage on the shipment. Please check your costs for getting your books to you. Last I heard it was so much for the first book and an additional cost for each additional book, way beyond what normal shipping would be, provided that an author had to pay for the shipping.

So, please enjoy the honeymoon with PA, but please watch your words. You're really going to hate the taste of them as you eat them after the first royalty statement.

Mo

WHY DON'T YOU TELL US WHO this wonderful publisher is???? Why do you withhold its name???? Believe me I checked most all of them out and PA was the best one I came up with. ANXIOUSLY AWAITING YOUR IMPARTIAL REPLY. Let's not forget they're YOUR bread and butter.

Gravity · Dec 31, 2006

Uh-uh, let's watch the attitude, Barb. C'mon now, group hug!

bstevens · Dec 31, 2006

I don't need all that editing. I am a professional person with a college degree. In fact I asked PA NOT TO EDIT mine at all. I didn't want my story line changed. That's another thing I have heard that the traditional ones do IF YOU are one in a million who gets published at all, they REWRITE and pick apart your story and put it how THEY want it. I want to sink or swim based on my own merits. Glad I didn't send my manuscript to your company.

aruna · Dec 31, 2006

bstevens said:
Traditional publishers are looking for well known names WHO THEY KNOW WILL SELL. They don't know you. If you want to spend all your days quering some SOB over and over and spending money on stamps, envs etc., go ahead. I'm not young enough to wait 4EVER. Not only that, most OF THEM WON'T TOUCH YOU WITHOUT AN AGENT and most agents won't touch you PERIOD. I went through that crap for a whole year. I finally got an agent who said she would represent me BUT SHE WANTED ME TO SEND HER MONEY LOL. No thanks. My best option is PA.

Welcome, Barbara, and do stick around for a while. I'd like to share my own experience in publishing,
I was a complete unknown when my first agent picked me up. She sold my first novel to a major UK publisher.
Contrary to what you say, I di dnot spend a penny on my own promotion (except fore a website.) All my costs - including travel to London from Germany, flights etc - were covered by the pubplisher. My book was translated into several languages, and it ws similar in those countries. I did not pay a penny for promotion. As a matter of fact, in Germany they paid me - cash in hand, DM 500 per hour - for readings etc during the promotion campaign.
The thing is, if you prodice a commercially vioable product - and that is what your book is, a product - publishers need to invest in it so as to make money. That is not your job; though of course you can help if you want to, by giving readings, signings etc.

bstevens · Dec 31, 2006

Gravity said:
Uh-uh, let's watch the attitude, Barb. C'mon now, group hug!

OK it it just that at this point in time I feel an injustice is being done to PA and the many benefits that an unknown penniless author could derive would be lost if PA closes its doors.

aruna · Dec 31, 2006

bstevens said:
I don't need all that editing. I am a professional person with a college degree. In fact I asked PA NOT TO EDIT mine at all. I didn't want my story line changed. That's another thing I have heard that the traditional ones do IF YOU are one in a million who gets published at all, they REWRITE and pick apart your story and put it how THEY want it. I want to sink or swim based on my own merits. Glad I didn't send my manuscript to your company.

Oh dear. A college degree is really not enough when it comes to creating a good novel.
My editor certainly did not pick my book apart or rewrite it. What she did was give me valuable advice on how to make it much, much better. I learnt so much about novel writing from her and others who have worked in the industry!
Being a "professional person" means nothing as far as novel writing is concerned. There is an art and a craft to it and we all have to learn it, as even though we may be good at English that is no guarantee that we can write a good novel..

bstevens · Dec 31, 2006

aruna said:
Welcome, Barbara, and do stick around for a while. I'd like to share my own experience in publishing,
I was a complete unknown when my first agent picked me up. She sold my first novel to a major UK publisher.
Contrary to what you say, I di dnot spend a penny on my own promotion (except fore a website.) All my costs - including travel to London from Germany, flights etc - were covered by the pubplisher. My book was translated into several languages, and it ws similar in those countries. I did not pay a penny for promotion. As a matter of fact, in Germany they paid me - cash in hand, DM 500 per hour - for readings etc during the promotion campaign.
The thing is, if you prodice a commercially vioable product - and that is what your book is, a product - publishers need to invest in it so as to make money. That is not your job; though of course you can help if you want to, by giving readings, signings etc.

It's a beautiful dream and I believe you are speaking of an experience that did occur 15-20 years ago. The publishing industry has changed. Every body and his brother thinks he's a writer now and he can be thanks to PA LOL

Birol · Dec 31, 2006

Aruna is an author who is currently publishing novels. Her experience is now, not 15-20 years ago.

PA would like everyone to believe that they can be an author, but the truth is, they can't. Thanks to technology, everyone can have a book printed, yes, but that's not really the same thing as being a professional author.

I wish you the best of luck, Barbara.

aruna · Dec 31, 2006

Actually, this happened in the last 5 - 6 years.

Last year I decided to look for a new agent and publisher. I got the agent - a first class one, by the way - and with any luck the publisher will come along soon.
The thing is, though it is indeed difficult, if you have written a good book you WILL find an agent and a publisher. I would not settle for less.
I know of several authors right here on this board who have landed major publishing deals with majar publlishers in the last few months, It's not a dream; it's reality. But you need a good enough product (ie manuscript).

Gravity · Dec 31, 2006

Barb, just so you know: I'm a former PA author. I went with them in 2001, when they were still fairly unknown, and thus had almost no presence on the Net. My book came out in the spring of 2002, and that's when the rot set in. Long story short, I started fighting like hell to get the rights returned. That fight ended in Feb 2006, when they were. I spent the intervening time polishing my craft, and ended up getting a three-book deal with a good-sized commercial house (by the way, that's the correct term, "commercial publishing"; "traditional publishing" is term PA coined, and is merely chimera). During this time I also managed to secure a top-flight agent, and right now we're moving forward with new books, to more commercial houses.

As others have said, if you're happy with no bookstore placement (because the discounts PA sets for them makes it untenable), and statistical lifetime sales of around a hundred copies of your work, we're thrilled. It's just that some of us wanted more.

And some of us got it.

bstevens · Dec 31, 2006

aruna said:
Oh dear, A college degree is really not enough when it comes to creating a good novel.
My editor certainly did not pick my book apart or rewrite it, what she did was give me valuable advice on how to make it much, much better, I learnt so much about novel writing from her and others who have worked in the industry!
Being a "professional person" means nothing as far as novel writing is concerned, There is an art and a craft to it and we all have to learn it, as even though we may be good at English that is no guarantee that we can write a good novel..

Mister I have had those writing classes but book knowledge is not a gift. I have a gift for writing which is way more valuable than that. Being a great story teller is something you have inside. Education only gives you the grammer, etc., you need to express your feelings. I have 3 other books ready to go. I can write a great book in one month that usually consists of about 300 pages. I am not going to release the others to PA until I see how well they do on this one. So far they are exceeding my expectations. The cover they designed is fabulous and the quality of the books is GREAT! Everyone who sees them are impressed as am I.

So far I am attributing their past poor performance to being a new upstart. They recently acquired their own printing press whereas, before they were contracting out.
www.barbarastevensbooks.com www.myspace\bestevensbooks.com

I have several free websites as well.

aruna · Dec 31, 2006

bstevens said:
Mister I have had those writing classes but book knowledge is not a gift. I have a gift for writing which is way more valuable than that. Being a great story teller is something you have inside. Education only gives you the grammer, etc., you need to express your feelings. I have 3 other books ready to go. I can write a great book in one month that usually consists of about 300 pages. I am not going to release the others to PA until I see how well they do on this one. So far they are exceeding my expectations. The cover they designed is fabulous and the quality of the books is GREAT! Everyone who sees them are impressed as am I.
.

First of all, I am no mister!!!

I too have a natural talent for storytelling; I've had that all my life., without my stopping to think or plan.That is not the same as novel writing; that's just a rough first draft.
The story needs to be deliberately crafted into a novel; and the craft of novel writing does not come naturally. It has to be learned, I am learning all the time! I feel that being professional about writing means exactly that: learning constantly how to craft something really good out of the raw stuff of my story, improving myself all the time.

When I wrote ny first novel about 7 years ago I thought it was brilliant. But I had the good luck to meet a professional from the pubpishing world who told me all the things that were wrong with it, which I couldn't see: the structure was bad, it was too wordy, some of the characters needed work, etc. These are things we usually can't see ourselves; we don;t have the distance.

Even naturally gifted musicians, singers, dancers, artists of all kind, need years of hard training befiore the consider themselves professionals. Why should it be different with writers? (scratches head)

bstevens · Dec 31, 2006

aruna said:
First of all, I am no mister!!!

I too have a natural talent for storytelling; I've had that all my life., without my stopping to think or plan.That is not the same as novel writing; that's just a rough first draft.
The story needs to be deliberately crafted into a novel; and the craft of novel writing does not come naturally, It has to be learned, I am learning all the time! I feel that beinga professional neans exactly that: learning constantly how to craft something really good out of the raw stuff of my story.
When I wrote ny first novel about 7 years ago I thought it was brilliant. But I had the good luck to meet a professional from the pubpishing world who told me all the things that were wrong with it, which I couldn't see: the structure was bad, it was too wordy, some of the characters needed work, etc. These are things we usually can't see ourselves; we don;t have the distance.

Even naturally gifted musicians, singers, dancers, artists of all kind, need years of hard training befiore the consider themselves professionals. Why should it be different with writers? (scratches head)

Not meaning to belittle you but I don't have that problem. My characters are so clearly defined that you can touch them with your mind's eye.

The only thing I am concerned about right now is the comment below which was on one of the other threads. But since PA just got their own printing press I think that problem has been cleared up. I ordered for my son 100 copies he's going to sell in chicago and they had the books to him during the Xmas season in 4 days.

Sales success is unwelcome at PA. When a book starts selling, you have to scramble to supply it to the market. You have to get it printed and shipped when the public wants it, and ship it to lots of different addresses -- bookstores and distributors -- rather than just shipping it to the author on your own schedule. Doing all that is a lot of trouble if you were never set up in the first place to sell books in quantity to the general public.

aruna · Dec 31, 2006

Good luck to you.

Gravity · Dec 31, 2006

Sweet Jesus. It's just like watching a car headed for a cliff. Guys, I think we've done about all we can here.

Good luck, Barb. May you have all the success with PA they're capable of delivering.

aruna · Dec 31, 2006

Gravity said:
Sweet Jesus. It's just like watching a car headed for a cliff. Guys, I think we've done about all we can here.

Good luck, Barb. May you have all the success with PA they're capable of delivering.

I guess her book got "the chance it deserved"!

Popeyesays · Dec 31, 2006

bstevens said:
No, but MANY MANY professional writers started out with vanity publishers and had to shell out thousands of dollars to get their books printed and then had to sell so many out of cars, bookfairs, etc., before the REAL traditional publishers would give them the time of day. PA is giving you the opportunity to prove yourself without YOU SHELLING out a cent.

They are a Godsend to good writers who are willing to work.

This is what PA says, but they're wrong. No modern big-time author buys his own books or does his own promotion. No 'Middle-List author does either, sure they might sign books and such, but they don't oay for those books out of their own pocket. For every one book you sell on Amazon you might sell a hundred or even a thousand if it was sold generally in chain and indie book stores. No small press requires you to pay anything up front. Royalties are 8-10% on cover price, not net. The average book at PA sells about 75 copies, the preponderance to the author himself.

I don't think you have done anything wrong, friend, but next July or so, why not give us a report on your sales?

Regards,
Scott

SC Harrison · Dec 31, 2006

bstevens said:
Now I agree with that wholeheartedly. I am not going to incurr major expenses I can't afford and thus far only spending $11/mo on a good website eventhough I could have gotten a free one and $30/month on an E-newsletter that I control myself. It is $30/month and I can discontinue both of these whenever I like.

That's almost $500 a year right there. You'll have to trust me when I tell you the sales they will generate or facilitate will not come close to covering the costs, but you won't know that for sure until you get your second check, and by that time it's too late.

Look, just because you can afford to do something it doesn't mean you will get a decent return on the money or even gain the exposure you want. Outside of friends and family, whatever steps you take will only get you a few sales. Get a website, it will get a few books sold. Do the newsletter thing, sell a few books. Place some on consignment, one or two might sell quickly, and the others sit there gathering dust. Do a booksigning, sell a few books. Do you follow me?

This is the bad side of POD, and the part that wears you down after a while. Each sale takes effort on your part, and pretty soon it becomes a chore, and a heartbreaking one at that. You don't believe that now, because you have faith in yourself and your book, and you're excited about getting out there and making it happen. You will understand in a year or so, and I hope you make it through without losing your love for writing.

maestrowork · Dec 31, 2006

bstevens said:
It's a beautiful dream and I believe you are speaking of an experience that did occur 15-20 years ago. The publishing industry has changed. Every body and his brother thinks he's a writer now and he can be thanks to PA LOL

I just got published in 2006. Not 1986. Not 1996. I am a new author. I never went vanity. My publisher is small but legit. My books are sold in real book stores, on real book shelves. No, I am not making millions, but we're not talking about money and fame, are we? My book was edited, and nobody tried to change it to something I didn't write. My integrity as a writer is very much intact, thank you. Why else would a publisher buy the book if they think they have to rewrite the whole thing? That simply doesn't make sense.

And I can attest that Aruna is a great multi-published writer; so between you and her, I wonder to whom I should listen.

maestrowork · Dec 31, 2006

bstevens said:
My characters are so clearly defined that you can touch them with your mind's eye.

Wow. You do have self-confidence to spare.

I ordered for my son 100 copies he's going to sell in chicago and they had the books to him during the Xmas season in 4 days.

Let me understand this... you are telling your son to sell books? Shouldn't that be your publisher's job?

All I can say is good luck and don't let us naysayers burst your dream.

tlblack · Dec 31, 2006

bstevens said:
I went through all this negative crap when I tried to get some good advice the last time I moved about moving companies. What I found out is that any idiot can say any idiotic thing on this internet and not be held accountable.

There is no doubt that some people have had problems BUT I have to look at the expectations of the people. I didn't go in and think that I would get so much for so little. No one knows me. PA doesn't know if I will buy or sell a single copy and they worked for me and TRUSTED me. I love them for that.

You also have to look at the other options of an UNKNOWN UNPROVEN author. No traditional publisher will trust you UNTIL YOU PROVE YOU HAVE AN AUDIENCE. PA is giving you the opportunity to prove yourself.

Tis very true people can, do, and will say anything on the internet... but...what I said, although from an emotional viewpoint, is very true, and I am no idiot. My book was edited in parts (not by me) by a published author working for a writer's group who has 16 published novels in print with publishers besides PA. (including her first one) My mistake was finding the wrong agent to represent me who for all intents and purposes had no real knowledge of the industry as she represented to have, and then signing that contract on her suggestion. (She sent my ms to PA without informing they were a POD.) The let down was huge but again, it is my problem and I have since had the contract cancelled and begun a new path with my writing. Whether or not I ever find that real publisher who will publish my books still remains to be seen. I said before, if you are happy, I commend you. Much luck!

Nobody here knows me either. I am new around here as well, but I can tell you that there aren't more thoughtful, helpful people anywhere on the net that I have had the pleasure of finding than here on AW. Find your genre, post some work, and let the ones here that have many many books in print or do editing and critiques for a living give you some pointers. If your writing needs work, they will tell you. If it is in great condition, they will tell you that as well.

As far as proving anything to anyone other than myself... it isn't necessary. I learn something new every day even in every day work as a floral design specialist, for 20 years. Nothing in life is perfect, nothing ever will be. It's when you can't see the forest for the trees that things start to get muddled and get in the way.

As I have said, if you are content, I commend you. Also if down the road, you find your experience with PA as enjoyable, then great. Good luck!

DeadlyAccurate · Jan 1, 2007

If you're interested in outside opinions of a sample of your work, you can post an excerpt in Share Your Work. I would be happy to give you a critique to help you improve your writing. My writing has greatly improved by reading what others have said about it.

For the record, I'm currently reading the debut book* of a Dallas author who is neither a dinosaur (he's 33) nor a movie star or politician. And, he sold his book first to the publisher before he ever landed an agent.

*Gil's All-Fright Diner by A. Lee Martinez

Publish America - The best thing to EVER happen to unknown authors

Around and About

Seen 'em come, seen 'em go

On a wing and a prayer

On a wing and a prayer

Around and About

On a wing and a prayer

Seen 'em come, seen 'em go

On a wing and a prayer

On a wing and a prayer

Seen 'em come, seen 'em go

On a wing and a prayer

Now departed. Rest in peace, Scott, from all of us

Dances With Hamsters

Fear the Death Ray

Fear the Death Ray

nothing simple here

Absolutely Fazed