Publish America - The best thing to EVER happen to unknown authors

Raindrops

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Where do I start. My goodness, after reading these posts, I think my blood pressure raised. I wish there was a smiley that threw up their hands and sighed. I went through the PA thing, and I can tell you from my experience, it was the worst ride I had ever had. Thank God I received my rights back before my book went to print. Not only was it not ready for publication, PA was willing to print it as is knowing fully well that it wouldn't go anywhere.

I have a question for you BStevens. Who told you that unknown authors cannot get published through legit publishers?? Sweetie, that's not true AT ALL!! Publishers are always looking for new talent. Go into any big bookstore and check out the new books coming in each month. Also, you can do a search for new authors by visiting publishing companies online.

You said that you have three completed novels ready to go, correct? That's awesome! :D If I were you, I'd start shopping them around. It's a fact of life that every writer gets rejected. You just have to keep sending out queries and never give up. With the strong determination that you possess, I feel that you'll make it in this business. And with that, I wish you the best! :)
 

Bartholomew

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bstevens said:
1. Book sells through Amazon and you get standard royalties. Let’s say 10%. – $2
2. You buy the book and save 30%, therefore you earn $6.
3. You put the book in stores on consignment at 50% and you get 15%, still better than the basic royalty, an earning of $3.
4. You convince a store to purchase books on your behalf and you pay them a 5% fee for being the buyer. They get a 40% discount. You give them their 5%, get your 10% royalties and sell your books for an additional 35%, making 45% on the cover price. We’re up to $9.
5. You could put that book on consignment at 50/50 and split the 35% discount with Joe blow (which is 17.5%). Add the original 10% that you keep, and you’re still up to 27.5%.

Thats really cool.

The extent of my involvement with that process is going to the bank and cashing checks.

And I'm about as unknown as they come.

Glad its working out for you, all the same.
 

Christine N.

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Wow. Bstevens, I admire your spunk, but your information about the publishing industry is way off base.

I agree that many more authors are taking a hand in their promotion these days. Some spend part or all of their advance, with the thought that it's the publisher's money anyway.(ETA: I don't particularly believe that, but I can understand the thinking). But what I don't agree with is what you believe about publishing on other points.

Big publishers take on new authors every day. Same with agents. Take a gander at Publisher's Lunch someday for the latest on the book deals. Many, in fact probably most of them are new or new-er authors.


These big publishers put money into every single book they produce, in the forms of catalogs, advertising campaigns (yes, they do! I can prove it to you), and a sales force. They market to libraries. They have reviews in trade mags and markets. Money that you don't know about. They have whole teams of people who carefully consider things like cover art, title, marketing plans. PA, for all the authors they claim, have none of this.

Editing - three whole edits with PA? Were they only for grammar and spelling? Don't fall for PA's line that 'we don't touch your prose', 'cause that is crap. Every single author needs the benefit of a good content edit. Make sure things are cohesive, characters are well formed, plot lines make sense, and the book will be the best book it can be. My small press editor spent weeks with just me going over stuff. I didn't have to make any changes I didn't agree with, but many of them I did. It's not about 'writing characters you can touch with your minds eye', it's about having a book that shines as a whole. Everybody needs this.

Big deal, I'm a college graduate too. Even the most published author among us needs editing, critiquing, polishing. Every. single. one.

You should spend some time here and find out where people here have been published. We have authors who have books out by St. Martins Press, Tor, Daw, Harlequin, Kensington (and I remember the day Jackie got her deal, she was SO excited, a new author and her first book), and others that I can't recall off the top of my head, plus a number of smaller, legitimate presses. People who know what real publishing is like. Editors from publishing houses whose books you can find in a bookstore, and other various publishing professionals. They know how it really works.


- PA just about accepts everything that comes in the door, which is why they have volume. It's called slush in the publishing world. There are statistically bound to be some great books, some good books, but mostly badly written, in need of serious work or not publishable at all books. Because this is what comes in to EVERY publisher and agent. But every publisher and agent doesn't accept them.

We have proof positive that PA does this.

Didn't pay one red cent, huh? How many books are you planning to buy? How much are you planning to spend promoting yourself? Welcome to reverse vanity! Nobody published by a real publisher pays, dear. Only vanity and self-published authors pay.

Not waiting for money to fall into your lap? You wrote the book, you did the hard work.

PA has a terrible reputation, and you're going to have to overcome for them when selling your book.

In other words, don't believe the manure PA spreads and the hype on the message boards. I haven't even mentioned the nasty letters PA sends out if you question their methods, and the obvious mismanagement of their books, shorting authors royalties and continuing to sell books they no longer have the rights to. It's all here in these threads though.

It's a scam not because of money changing hands, but because of the misleading advertising and rigamarole they push down their authors throats.


PS - I pay $17 a year for my website, for the domain name only, but I am my own webmaster. It's a good way to go, and right now if you Google my name I'm in the top five results. I send a quarterly newsletter myself for free. There are cheaper ways of doing the promotion.

PPS - just so I identify myself, I had my first book published in Dec. 2005 by a small but honest publisher. The next comes out mid-2007. I do promote myself, the publicist for my publisher lines up my appearances for me, though, and I don't travel far. I also do school visits, since I'm a children's writer. I also write English Adaptations of Japanese Light Novels for the largest Manga publisher in the US. (which means my name is in the book, under 'English Adaptation by:" when you pick up the book at the local bookstore, and they will be in nationwide bookstores, starting this spring.)
 
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Bartholomew

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bstevens said:
I don't need all that editing. I am a professional person with a college degree. In fact I asked PA NOT TO EDIT mine at all. I didn't want my story line changed. That's another thing I have heard that the traditional ones do IF YOU are one in a million who gets published at all, they REWRITE and pick apart your story and put it how THEY want it. I want to sink or swim based on my own merits. Glad I didn't send my manuscript to your company.

Ouch.

I'm working on an English degree. I co-write with someone who's out of college. We can produce a 4-5 page MS between the two of us, edit it twice apiece, and still not have it at a professional level.

Editing is an art, and a hard one. You have to make a lot of decisions and these decisions often lead to the deletion and rewriting of large segments of text. Check out J.K. Rowlings website--She's published with Scholastic--she has a wonderful segment about portions of the story she removed. If you want the heartache of the editorial process to ease up, go check her stuff out.

Alternatively, become Stephen King.

Bart, who wonders why he uses emdashes instead of parenthesis.
 

Bartholomew

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bstevens said:
My God people if NO MONEY has exchanged hands their is no scam!

No money? My experience has been that publishers pay advances. How much was your advance from Publish America?
 

Birol

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That's a good question right now.
Em-dashes set things apart differently than parenthesis. In this context, they tend to emphasize the additional information rather than treat it like an aside. IMO.
 
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Christine N.

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Oh, and really welcome! I hope you do stick around and read some of the threads, read some of the Share Your Work and give your opinion, post some for people to critique. Answer a question, ask one of your own.

Everyone is welcome at AW, as long as you respect your fellow writer.
 

Bartholomew

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Birol said:
Em-dashes set things apart differently than parenthesis. In this context, they tend to emphasize the additional information rather than treat it like an aside. IMO.

I wonder if the sole difference is that Emdashes emphasize, while parenthesis tell your eyes it is okay to skip ahead.

Hmm...

Thread Hijacked, Baby!

Oh, and really welcome! I hope you do stick around and read some of the threads, read some of the Share Your Work and give your opinion, post some for people to critique. Answer a question, ask one of your own.

Everyone is welcome at AW, as long as you respect your fellow writer.

Yes. In all sincerity, Welcome.
 

Marian Perera

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bstevens said:
...they didn't ask me for ONE CENT up front.

I'm only on page 70 of the old never-ending Publish America thread, and I may have missed something, but does PA no longer charge people $30 for copyright?

And I also have a college degree, not to mention years of experience in writing, but that doesn't mean the novel which I've nearly finished is so good that it needs no editing.

Anyway, good luck with your book(s).
 

cinders23

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Some things to consider...

bstevens said:
Yes, I hear you but believe me after I read all of this stuff BEFORE I signed my contract I agonized over the decision night and day. So far I'm quite happy with everything - order fulfillment, etc.

Unknown authors must remember that they are the competition to these professional writers and taking money out of their pockets, just like all the reality shows with regular people are taking jobs from professional actors. I love this new era of the common man being given a chance.

The reason I don't like PA and other similiar publishers is that they basically make their money off books sold to friends and family of the author and, of course, the author. This to me is scammish...feeding off the hopes, dreams and desperation of the writer.

I've never seen the PA contract, but I suspect the author will get about 10%. Heck, if I have to do all the work I would self-publish under my own name and get 100% of the profits. So you say you would have to spend money to print the books...well you are going to spend money buying the books from PA anyway. Also books stores won't stock PA books because the prices are too high. I suggest you study up on self-publishing to find out all your options. There are cheap ways to do it, be your own publisher, and keep 100% of the profits. It's much more respected than going with a vanity.

Consider this....everyone in the publishing industry is aware that PA will publish anything..thus if you ever want book reviews you can forget it. Any reviewer worth anything won't consider reviewing a PA book.

Anyway, I wish you success and you'll have to let us know if you are still satisfied with your decision a year from now.

Good Luck,

Cindy
 

PVish

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I would love to hear different experiences about ads in newspapers, radio/blog interviews, bookclubs or selling at bookfairs if anyone has had those experiences.

I'm a self-pubbed and a POD author who currently has some manuscripts circulating with commercial publishers. I have NEVER paid for ads or interviews, though I have been interviewed on TV, radio, and in print media. I have been invited to many bookfairs and bookfests--usually as a guest speaker or performer. I NEVER pay for table space, and often I am paid to present.

I do not sell many books at these events because most of the attendees are other authors trying to sell books, too. We do, however, swap books, so I'm able to see what other, uh, less-than-commercially-published authors are writing. About every seventh or eighth book (that I've swapped for and read) is pretty good.

My self-pubbed book, which has earned me a profit in the mid-five figures, was selected by several area bookclubs and one library bookclub two counties away from me—but that's because it won a contest sponsored by a local arts council which also underwrote part of my off-set printing costs for the first thousand. The arts council promoted my book and set up appearances for me--the way a commercial publisher would do. Without their backing, my book would have gone unnoticed.

POD has worked for three of my projects because (1) all were targeted to a local niche (2) I have a readership in place because I write a column for a regional paper (3) the POD publisher I chose takes returns and prices the books reasonably (4) I live in an area with no bookstores but plenty of gift-shops, and my POD books are well-suited for gift-shops, which order directly from the company so i don't have to supply them (5) material used in these books has already made money: I receive a monthly check for first rights to my columns that I collected into one book; the short stories that appeared in the other two books had won money in various contests. Had these works been written for a larger audience (Yes, I talked to agents at conferences), I would have pursued a commercial publisher—as I'm doing for two current projects.

I have a masters in English and have taught at the college level. I still need an editor. I'll have an essay in the up-coming Cup of Comfort for Writers (Adams Media, 2007). Although that essay had won me money in a contest a few years ago, I was amazed how a few edits by the C of C editor made it so much better.

PA is to prose what the International Library of Poetry is to poetry. (Yeah, I was once taken in by the ILP and actually bought the book that my mediocre "Editor's Choice" poem was in.) I am much more skeptical now than I used to be.
 

xhouseboy

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bstevens said:
Not only that, most OF THEM WON'T TOUCH YOU WITHOUT AN AGENT and most agents won't touch you PERIOD. I went through that crap for a whole year. I finally got an agent who said she would represent me BUT SHE WANTED ME TO SEND HER MONEY LOL. No thanks. My best option is PA.

A year's nothing. You skipped the perseverance stage. How does 5 years of that crap sound? That's how long it can take some to attract an agent and make a mark in their chosen field - doesn't have to be book writing. And it takes a lot longer in some cases.


And as far as the bankruptcy question, the REASON THEY won't touch an unknown author even with a good manuscript is because of fear of bankruptcy. That's why they stick with the tried and true, politicians, movie stars, and dinosaur writers.

Any really good manuscript stands a chance. By 'dinosaur writers' I take it you mean those having already paid their dues, those with a solid readership.

I wish you well. Better that you hang out here and see both sides, rather than be subject to the censored propaganda PA will constantly feed you. But I think you'll find that talking up PA doesn't go down well here. There's too many who have already gone through what you're about to embark upon, and they're the ones you should listen to as opposed to the cheerleaders over at PA.

Although I suspect that you're keen to find this out through personal experience, and if you think a year of rejection was tough and unfair then prepare yourself for what's to come. It's about to get a lot worse if you don't take on board what some ex-PA authors are trying to tell you.

I'm not saying your book isn't worthy. I'm not saying it won't sell. I am saying that you're in for a hell of a learning curve. Good luck.
 

Saundra Julian

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Welcome to AW, Barbara.... from an X-PA author. :hooray:

I have one suggestion for you. Stop spamming other PA and X-PA authors. Everyone hates spam and you do yourself a disservice with this shoddy practice.

As for your feelings about PA...well, good luck. We'll be here when the honeymoon is over.

Saundra
 

Marian Perera

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xhouseboy said:
A year's nothing.

I agree. It's been nearly seven years since I sent my first manuscript out to agents, and now I'm relieved it was never accepted - it just wasn't that good. With a later manuscript, I got a very encouraging rejection from a top agent. With my current novel, maybe I'll succeed. I'm pretty sure, though, that if I'd sent my first manuscript to a place which published it unedited and then expected me to do all the legwork to promote and sell it, I wouldn't have had the time or the enthusiasm to write much more.
 

Gravity

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I have the feeling Barb won't return (I could be wrong, though; I frequently am). I just hope she doesn't pull a Jeff and start crowing on the PA boards how she really let us have it with both barrels. Jeff can pull that off because he's a putz; I don't get that feeling from this gal. I think she's just someone nice, but basically gormless about how PA (and commercial publishing) works.

She'll find out, though. Alas.
 

jchines

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bstevens said:
It's a beautiful dream and I believe you are speaking of an experience that did occur 15-20 years ago. The publishing industry has changed. Every body and his brother thinks he's a writer now and he can be thanks to PA LOL

Sigh. As another data point, I was picked up by my agent last year. I had a PoD book out a few years ago, but I didn't mention this to my agent, because they don't care. He picked me up because I had written a book that got picked out of the slush at a major publisher. (A "traditional publisher," as they call them at PA.)

So chalk me up as another of those one in a million authors who got picked up as an unknown and sold two books (so far) for $4000 and $5000 advances, respectively. Not to mention foreign sales.

The way new authors "prove themselves" is by submitting a good book. Waving a Publish America book in the air (or any other self-published or vanity-press work, for that matter) isn't going to do anything for you.

I'm glad you're happy with PA and what they've done for you. I truly am. And I actually agree with you on authors doing their own self-promotion. My publisher has done a lot for me in terms of publicizing and distribution, but I'm also working to promote my books.

However, I think it would be a good idea to step back and educate yourself a bit more about how the publishing industry works. Not just what they say at PA. Not just what they say here, either. Never confine your research to a single source. Look around, read agent blogs, talk to other published authors -- the ones whose books get national distribution and actual advances.
 

imagoodgurl4

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I am an as-yet unpublished author, currently working on a manuscript. However, for a time, I did consider going the POD/PublishAmerica route. I'm only 21, so I have a lot to learn about the publishing industry. However, young as I may be, I am not stupid and I decided to thoroughly research this particular route. I'm very fortunate that I found this forum, because everyone here has been so helpful. I lurked for awhile before joining and I paid particular attention to the threads on PA. I checked out Preditors and Editors and I have found that a useful site. Already I am compiling a list of legitimate agents for when I am ready to shop my MS around.

I looked at the practices of PA and listened to a few Podcasts about them and realize they are not a godsend. They are scammers who prey on the writers whose work means the most. PA may be fine for those few people who just want to see their name in print. Granted, this is a great thrill, but I know I hope to accomplish more with my writing, as it is a very personal thing for me.

So personal, in fact, that I don't want to squander the time and effort I have put into my work on a money-hungry company like PA. I believe I have talent. I have a lot to learn, yes, but I have been told by a published author, who also happened to be a Creative Writing teacher of mine in high school, that I have real talent.

I'm glad I was saved the trouble and heartache of having to deal with PA by the wonderful, talented people from AW, for whom I have nothing but respect. I have learned a lot from you guys and came to the conclusion that this many people cannot possibly be wrong.
 

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bstevens said:
I'm not expecting to sit in my easy chair and money just falls in my lap.

I am with a small press and this is basically what happens. I type my fiction on a sofa and have to walk to the mailbox for my checks--but close enough, I think.
 

imagoodgurl4

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Gravity: You gotta admit though...sometimes stuff you write when drunk or hungover is pretty funny. Not that I've ever done that of course. :D
 

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Yet another datapoint...

I don't post very often, but on the off chance that Barb is still around, I thought I'd contribute yet another datapoint.

I'm an unknown author in my early...damnit...MID thirties. With no connections and no previous publications, last year I snagged an awesome agent. A few months later he sold two books of mine for a five figure advance to HarperCollins.

(By the way, the editing process was a breeze:) Nothing was changed --aside from a few house style things-- without my approval and those darn editors are so sharp that I wanted to make the changes they suggested. There's a reason they do this for a living.)

Was getting published hard? Hell yeah. I have a couple of unsold books that, frankly, didn't deserve to be published though I struggled for years to do just that. In retrospect, they're the work of a new writer though at the time I honestly believed I had a achieved a level of writing that could "touch the mind's eye." Instead of blaming the publishing industry for being unfair, I joined a writer's group and wrote another, better book. I researched the industry, and I got savvy.

I also started reading Absolutewrite religiously. There's a lot of great information here from a large, diverse group of talented, experienced people. Take some time to look around. Please.

I also have a friend who went with publishamerica. Nobody was happier than I was when he found a publisher. Three years later, he's no longer writing fiction. Why? Because he believed the hype and when his book failed to sell despite all of his efforts, he thought it meant it was because he was a rotten writer. He's not, though it's going to take some time for him to believe that.

I wish you the best of luck, Barb, but realize that the opinions we've formed about PA aren't because of jealousy or ignorance. We know how PA works. Many of us have experienced it first hand. And many of us have also had the chance to taste what real publishing is supposed to feel like. Yes it's a lot of work and often a lot of disappointment, but nobody ever said anything worth doing was easy.

Grommet
 

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bstevens said:
Mister I have had those writing classes but book knowledge is not a gift. I have a gift for writing which is way more valuable than that. Being a great story teller is something you have inside.
You mean it's a gift from God? Perhaps that's my problem.:cry:

That would be several OTHER free websites, as myspace IS a free website. But the myspace link clearly doesn't work, and I've tried several variations that "ought to work" but don't. What is your correct myspace.com site?

Someone asked of a sample of Barbara's writing. There's a sample from her book on her website right here:
http://www.barbarastevensbooks.com/excerpt.html