Writers Literary Agency / The Literary Agency Group / LAG /TLAG

JDsgirlbev · Mar 11, 2007

lol...obviously I didn't edit QUITE carefully enough! Thanks for pointing that out.
And good tip about PayPal...

JDsgirlbev · Mar 13, 2007

The latest in the continuing stoooory of....

Got this back from NYL today...

I'll believe it when I have the money in my hands... Isn't it odd...if I had been cynical BEFORE, I wouldn't have fallen for this.

Dear Beverly,

Too bad, we had some stuff cooking for you already. (I'll just bet you did!)

Also too bad that you can't make up your own mind. (So..I'm weak minded.)

Happy to send you a refund. (Good.)

Cheers!

Sherry

Thank you for letting me affirm that it is not important that I please everyone.

And, thank you for letting me once again remind myself that I choose to spend time with those authors that want help and guidance, not authors that think they know it all.

And thanks for reminding me that the sales we've made, and the deals we've done, are fantastic for those authors and our company. And that's where I put my attention, on winners, and not on losers who hang out on message boards whining and chattering like magpies. (umm... I think that's supposed to be you guys...)

Thanks again for reminding me of these things! It's people like you that help me remember that what we do isn't for everyone, and that's ok for me, and ok for you.

Good luck with you writing career. If you change your mind, or can't find anyone to give you the same respect that we have, then we're happy for you to come back to us and we pledge to treat you as a professional, not like you have just treated us.

Best to you, I really mean it!

victoriastrauss · Mar 13, 2007

Gee, a non-form response. Guess ol' Sherry earned her salary today.

Let us know if you actually get the refund.

- Victoria

DeadlyAccurate · Mar 13, 2007

Aaagh! Bobby, it's who. Who. People who. "It's people like you [who] help..." Things are thats. People are whos.

This mistake is like nails on a chalkboard to me.

Gravity · Mar 13, 2007

JDsgirlbev said:
we pledge to treat you as a professional, not like you have just treated us.

For pity's sake, Bobby, people refuse to do business with other people every single day...and for a lot less reason than an agent being incapable of selling a manuscript.

James D. Macdonald · Mar 13, 2007

JDsgirlbev said:
And thanks for reminding me that the sales we've made, and the deals we've done, are fantastic for those authors and our company.

Click to expand...

Hey, Sherry, how about reminding me of the sales you've made? How about those fantastic deals?

I think the deals are "fantastic" because they're a "fantasy." That is, only in Sherry's head.

By the way, "Sherry," your authors sure are a close-mouthed bunch. None of them say on their Livejournals or blogs or Myspace sites that they're represented by you, then a month or a year later pop up to announce that someone bought their book.

Why is that, do you suppose?

James D. Macdonald · Mar 13, 2007

victoriastrauss said:
Gee, a non-form response. Guess ol' Sherry earned her salary today.

Maybe it's a new form and this is just the first time we're seeing it.

Gravity · Mar 13, 2007

James D. Macdonald said:
Maybe it's a new form and this is just the first time we're seeing it.

I hadn't thought of that, Unk. But I'll bet you a jug of Bobby's finest corn likker you're right.

James D. Macdonald · Mar 13, 2007

As "Georgina" (as Bobby was calling himself at the time) said in June of '05:

Q) You've never sold anything... the author sold it.. blah, blah

A) We now have 4 deals. The most recent is with an UK publisher. (Note: because of the vitriolic people on these boards we don't post our deals because the instant we post a name, the really creepy and scary people that hate us start sending this crap to the posted name. We've got the documents and if ever needed our lawyers can pull them out.) We assisted every author with the contract on those 4 deals. We actually have emails from the publisher complimenting us on the fair job we did for our author. Yes, in two of the deals the author found the relationship, and in two of them, we found the relationship. In all 4 deals we provided SIGNIFICANT value to the contract negotiation and the post-publishing support. The thing that is lost in all this is that very, very few literary agents have even one deal under their belt. Also, we did a measurement in April and we had 68 open and active discussions with buyers about our authors' work. We expect a few more deals by the end of the year. You might also be interested to note that we also find really bad contracts for our authors and we recommend that they don't accept them. We've seen more contracts than anyone you know and we bring that expertise to our clients.

Well, here we are in the March of '07, and "four deals" is still what they've boasting of. And in two of those cases, they admit, the author sold the book, not them.

Incidentally, the name for a literary agency that only has one sale is "out of business." Either that or "scammer." Take your pick. (Note: Same thing goes for people who boast of having just four sales. If they aren't out of business, they're scammers.)

DaveKuzminski · Mar 13, 2007

Keep in mind that Bouncin' Bobby and his cohorts seem to always mention deals, not sales. They're admitting they didn't make the sales and that they only participated in the deals. Of course, they don't claim they made good deals, either.

Remember, having Bouncin' Bobby and his cohorts as your agency would be the same as holding the suitcase with the penny on Deal or No Deal to the bitter end. It's exciting for a brief while, but you're not getting anything worth your time.

aruna · Mar 13, 2007

The thing that is lost in all this is that very, very few literary agents have even one deal under their belt.

I think he left out a word here. Correction, Georgina::

The thing that is lost in all this is that very, very few scam literary agents have even one deal under their belt.

victoriastrauss · Mar 18, 2007

The Latest Spin from Bobby et al

Pesky authors who ask questions about the newly-renamed Writers Literary Agency are being given a link to this press release and a new canned email (quoted and responded to below).

We already knew that LAG had been "acquired" by Writers Literary Agency & Marketing Company as part of "an aggressive vertical integration policy." It says so right on the LAG website. According to the press release, however, it's actually Writers Literary & Publishing Services Company (the editing branch of the operation) that has "acquired" LAG, again as part of a strategy of "vertical integration." Stop! I'm getting dizzy! Will the real acquirer of LAG please stand up?

I'm just kidding. We all know it's the same operation. Since Writer Beware and others have been saying for years that the agency operation owns the editing operation, they've turned it around on us. Now they can say that the editing operation owns the agency operation! So there!

One of our many beefs with WLA/LAG/whatever it's calling itself this week is that it presents the editing service as separate from the agencies, and doesn't properly disclose to agency clients that they're buying their critiques from a branch of the same business. Does the press release mean they're coming clean? Not exactly. The press release is hosted on the Writers Literary website, but there's no link to it anywhere on the website itself--or on the LAG website or the WLA website either. It's obviously intended specifically for people who ask awkward questions, and is given out only as part of the following canned response from our good friend Sherry Fine.

Sigh.. it's a strange dynamic.. these sites hide, they hide their owners, they hide their contact info, and they won't enter a public exchange with us or anyone we know .. I've almost given up on having a rational discussion about it. I have been trying to get them to reply publically, or to even dialogue with me.. to no avail.

Ah, the old "they won't say who they are" gambit. Bullsh!t. I don't exactly hide my identity or contact information, nor does Ann (in fact, that info is right on the Writer Beware website), nor does Uncle Jim or Dave Kuzminski or Jenna or any of the other watchdogs.

Plus, anyone who has been hanging out at AW a while knows how seriously the folks at WLA/LAG take dialogue.

Read this...

http://www.writersliterary.com/acquiretlag.html

The only loser in this situation is you, the aspiring writer who is thus far unpublished.

Here, at least, Sherry is telling the truth--it definitely is the writer who's the loser in this deal.

Would you please try to email them and get them to reply to these points or questions.

Thanks. Doing that.

All we want is a chance to help writers. Ask them why they don't/can't show any concrete evidence about their allegations and ask them why they won't give us a chance to prove ourselves.

Call me kooky, but in my opinion, more than six years of fee-charging, adjunct service selling, and complete failure to sell any manuscripts or screenplays to reputable companies, is a pretty good "chance to prove ourselves." As for concrete evidence...come see the Rubbermaid containers in which Writer Beware's files on WLA/LAG are housed. C'mon. I dare ya.

Please, please, see if you can involve them in a discussion. Please see if they will answer your emails and questions like I answer your emails and questions.

Ann has gotten something like a thousand emails from WLA/LAG vicitms and prospective victims over the past six or eight months. She has answered them all. I've gotten at least as many. I've answered them all too.

Ask them the tough questions, ask them who they think is excellent that will take a new writer on? Ask them why they won't give our new company a chance? Ask them what they think you should do?... Heck, ask them to be your agent since they seem to know so much ....

Authors who ask Writer Beware these questions get straight answers. Want some? Contact us at [email protected]

I think it would be helpful for the industry as a whole if they would come out of their closets and engage in a meaningful discussion about what new writers should do to break into the industry.

Here we are. We're out. How about you, Sherry, or should I say Jill?

Sherry is only feigning ignorance. She knows exactly how meaningful our discussion is, because she's seen it. She has read our emails to authors (we know because she sometimes quotes them), and we know she reads our posts at AW. We think she reads our blog, too, though she's never left a comment.

We've offered to exchange dialogue over, and over and over.. sigh... oh well, I hope you will consider what I've said, and maybe, just maybe give us a chance to prove ourselves. However, the one thing we won't relent on is that we only want to represent edited authors. If you can't, or won't go through even a minimum of critical review, then you aren't for us. We only want authors that will invest in themselves. It's that simple.

Here again, Sherry tells the truth. WLA/LAG only wants authors who will pay.

p.s. here's one comment that I love... "Sherry- Thanks for the reply. I am 76 years old and not the "new kid on the block". I have been around business all my life. When I was the most successful appliance dealer in the mid-south everyone took pot shots at me. The fact was, I was just simply better than the rest. (Please allow an old man a little bragging.) Seems to me your critics would like to be where you are. No problem at this end. I look forward to working with your agency. Thanks again for your very nice and complete answer."

I hope Sherry made this one up. Otherwise, it's heartbreaking.

Best regards,

Sherry - VP Acquisitions

Our Pledge To You:
==================
* We respect what you have accomplished thus far as a writer.
* We believe that great authors are made, not born. We are willing to develop talent.
* We pledge straight talk in a confusing and old-school industry.
* We can't promise a sale. We can promise a professional relationship.

p.s. Missed Emails, Spam, Whitelists, and other reasons for lapses in communications. There's an old joke in showbiz that asks the question, "What do you get if you cross an agent with a turnip?" The answer is "A turnip that doesn't return your phone calls." That won't happen with us. We are very, very diligent about returning every email that we receive within a couple of days. The same is true for our vendors and suppliers. IF YOU DO NOT RECEIVE A COMMUNICATION AND YOU BELIEVE THAT YOU SHOULD HAVE, PLEASE, CHECK WITH US AND WE WILL SEE WHAT HAPPENED. Please don't jump to negative conclusions. The Internet is not 100% foolproof and we are very sensitive to our clients' expectations and our promises about timely communications.

Yours in dialogue,

- Victoria

Richard White · Mar 18, 2007

I seem to recall a message where Sherry (probably Robert) stated that they'd be happy to publicly answer and refute questions. Jim posted some, Victoria posted some, HapiSofi posted some, Roger posted some.

Sherry's response? "We don't have time to deal with the nay sayers."

Right there, they publicly shot themselves in the foot. They were questions they should have been able to answer within seconds. The entire lot could have been dealt with in less than a half hour.

Instead, they flounced off with their nose in the air.

Folks, no one should take this "agency" seriously. It's nothing more than a means to separate you from your hard-earned cash. They prey on the neophyte author who is still enraptured with their first book or the downtrodden author who's tired of getting "one more rejection". They can't help you.

In six years, they've "claimed" to sell four books. They can not be living off of their commissions as an agent, so where are they making their money? Strictly off of their clients whom they bleed for every cent they can get.

James D. Macdonald · Mar 18, 2007

Can I play too?

We've offered to exchange dialogue over, and over and over.. sigh... oh well, I hope you will consider what I've said, and maybe, just maybe give us a chance to prove ourselves.

Well, let's look at that:

Georgina Orr said:
...WE HAVE CONTACTED THESE PEOPLE NUMEROUS TIMES AND OFFERED TO ANSWER THEIR QUESTIONS ON A PUBLIC FORUM FOR THE BEST INTEREST OF THE INDUSTRY AND THE WRITERS. They have refused or ignored our requests.... Go through the boards and send me SPECIFIC questions....

James D. Macdonald said:
...What have you sold? Title, author, publisher?
Which editors do you work with most often? Which do you know best?
What's the actual physical location of your office?
What are the names of your agents? What is their prior experience in publishing?
...

victoriastrauss said:
...

8. When will you be filing that lawsuit against me? My attorney wants to know.

...

James D. Macdonald said:
What is the exact nature of the relationship between The Literary Agency Group, its principals and subsidiaries, and The Lighthouse Press of Deerfield Beach, FL, its principals and subsidiaries?

Georgina Orr said:
In response to the reactions that my posting ofl ast week has generated.....

LAG is a privately owned company and our business model is working for our authors. We are more concerned about the authors that we are currently representing than we are about people who choose to make defamatory statements about us and so I am not prepared to waste time replying to any of these posts which do no more than nit pick. It is unlikely that I will attempt to carry on a meaningful discussion with people who have already made up their mind.

My time, and my company's time is better spent selling and pitching for our authors.

Sincerely yours,
Georgina Orr, VP Corporate Affairs
Literary Agency Group

James D. Macdonald · Mar 18, 2007

Line-by-line with Writers Literary

The Writers Literary
& Publishing Services Company

For Immediate Release
From: Writers Literary Services
Re: Acquisition of The Literary Agency Group (TLAG)

I wonder -- was this actually submitted to any news outlets? It has an odd tone for a press release.

Writers Literary Services announces the acquisition of The Literary Agency Group.

So far as I'm aware Writers Literary Services was owned and operated by Robert Fletcher, while The Literary Agency Group was owned and operated by ... Robert Fletcher. I wonder how tough it was to negotiate the deal.

This press release should answer the typical questions about the acquisition. I also am happy to answer any further questions you may have. I hope that in this spirit of cooperation we can all help more writers meet their goals.

That really doesn't sound like a press release. (Note that it doesn't actually answer the typical questions. The typical questions are on the order of "You're crooks, right?")

Q) Why are you buying TLAG?

Changing our name on a regular basis is part of our business plan. Every time too much information piles up on our old name, we become someone else so new m/a/r/k/s/ authors won't be able to Google up all the dirt.

A) In short, their asset base. They may have the largest database of profiled and edited writers in the world.

Who, remarkably, have one of the shortest lists of published books in the world. Being as generous as I can possibly be, and believing every word that TLAG/WL says, that's a total of only four books in eight years.

The assets (writers) that are in their database are tremendous.

You'd think they'd have more sales.

We know as we've edited most of their authors.

Y'all must be totally incompetent.

It is a natural for us to want to vertically integrate by acquiring them.

Some of them still have money in their checking accounts, and we want it.

Publishers want work that is clearly edited and professionally presented.

Professionally presented, sure. Edited? Not so much. The word for edited slush is "slush."

We think it is a natural fit and we plan to acquire other agencies as well.

I hear the Helping Hands Agency, [SIZE=-1]O'Donnell Literary Services, and the Deering Agency are all looking for buyers.
[/SIZE]

Q) Tell me more about Writers Literary.

They're a bunch of scammers.

A) We think we are the second largest editing company in the world, second only to Scribendi, and we may have them beat. We employ about 20 editors, both full and part time. We help writers of all genres and through the years we have built some very solid contacts within the industry.

How much 'help' have they been if the writers they've edited remain unsold? And which industry is that? Fast food?

We're here to stay, and that's a good thing for writers.

Ready to mention some of your success stories?

Q) Isn't that a conflict of interest? For an editing company to own an agency?

Yes, it is. It's an invitation to fraud. (Oh, and your second sentence there is just a fragment. Tell me again about what great editors you are?)

A) Only if your thinking is 20 years old.

And current as of this morning among folks who are actually buying and selling books.

Vertical integration has come to the entire writing/publishing/moviemaking industry.

Woo! Mysterious and exciting business-speak buzzwords!

We will be specializing in the development of emerging authors and we will be utilizing contemporary marketing strategies to reach publishers and consumers.

"Will be"? What have you been doing to date? Oh, and your checkoff form "looking for now" nonsense has been a flat failure as far as marketing anything to anyone. Time to try something else.

We believe that the vast majority of writers deserve an opportunity to develop their skills and present their work in an open and competitive marketplace.

I encourage all writers to develop their skills. The market it is pretty darned open right now, if you look at all the first novels that are on the shelves. And competitive? Let me tell you....

Like the traditional press, the traditional literary agent and mass-market publisher model is antiquated.

And works better than anything else that's been tried.

Writers Literary will lead its writers into the new century.

You're a few years late for that, friend.

Q) What about the people at TLAG? Are you keeping them?

Is there anyone at TLAG besides Fletcher and his imaginary friends?

A) Some we are, and some we aren't. It's the same as any acquisition. We hope that we will add resources and depth to what they have already accomplished.

We'll be keeping some pseudonyms and dropping others. The more-easily Googled/more notorious ones will be forgotten as we play spin-the-bottle with a baby name book. Watch for the name "Robert Fletcher" to vanish. It's too easy to find out about his conviction for securities fraud.

Q) Are you going to change things?

Nope! Started as a scam, going to keep going as a scam.

A) Some things yes, and some things no. We will be dissolving the Literary Agency Group name as well as the names of its subsidiary agencies.

Google has been been killing us!

Both marketing and development services will be operating under the Writers Literary name.

Until there's too much to search on -- then watch for another name change. Plan on seeing it in two years, maybe less.

We plan to be more stringent on evaluations.

We're going to make sure that the authors we accept have respectable bank accounts.

We plan to continue requiring that all works we represent have been edited.

Because that's where we make our money. It sure isn't from book sales.

Many authors will already have worked with an editor so it's an easy request in our opinion.

Right.

We plan to expand both the sales and production departments in the company.

What the foo does a literary agency or editing firm need with a production department? Oh -- I know. You've heard the word "production," and know that it has something to do with publishing, so you thought you'd throw it in to fool the unwary.

Q) Is what is being said about TLAG on the writers' blogs true?

Yes.

A) Do you remember the game where the class sits in a circle and you start with a statement and whisper it in each ear around the circle?

Yep. It's called "Telephone." Speaking of which, what's your business phone number? Say someone at MGM wanted to get in touch with you to see about making one of the books you represent into a movie. Who would he call?

By the time it reaches the end of the circle, it's unrecognizable. That's what our diligence showed.

What, you mean when you researched TLAG before you bought it from yourself? That dilligence?

I certainly hope that you asked them what they'd sold, ever, to anyone, and when they hemmed and hawed and shuffled their feet and couldn't answer you concluded that they hadn't actually sold anything to anyone.

Yes, they had some startup woes, and yes, they made some mistakes, but in general, they did what they said, they had sales, and they have pioneered some interesting concepts.

Could you name some (any) of those sales?

Their "woes" are well documented here. In fact, I suspect that "too easily Googled" is one of the first and biggest of their woes.

We think there is value in the authors they have on their roster.\

Now all you have to do is convince those pesky publishers of the same thing....

In conclusion, we hope that people will judge us by our results and give us at least a year to show them to the world.

Results! Yes! Could you mention what you've sold, ever, to anyone? As for giving you a year, how about all the years from 2001 to date? You've had several years. The name is the only thing that's new.

I am happy to answer any further emails or questions about the acquisition that you may have.
Warmest regards,
Robert West - Senior Agent
Bob @ WritersLiterary.com

Hey, Bob, are you by any chance Robert Fletcher?

What have you sold, ever, to anyone?
What editors do you know best?
Where did you work before coming to TLAG?

Roger J Carlson · Mar 18, 2007

Q) Why are you buying TLAG?

In order to evade Google searches. Google is their worst enemy. Spread the word around. Use their new name and associate it with the old.

Writers Literary Agency & Marketing Company IS The Literary Agency Group

Popeyesays · Mar 18, 2007

Where did they get the idea that authors automatically transferred like assets? They are not 'assets' because the agency does not own them. They are clients. When real agents transfer agencies they take a lion's share of their clients with them do they not? If they are any good, anyway.

Regards,
Scott

JDsgirlbev · Mar 18, 2007

Dear friends and gentle readers, I got my refund from TNYLA. I also (thanks Popeyesays) got back the Paypal charges.

Is that the end of our story? Please stay tuned for the sequel.

Popeyesays · Mar 18, 2007

Paypal is very reasonable to deal with. They need to have a stirling reputation in order to do business.

Regards,
Scott

Austin Wimberly · Mar 22, 2007

Thank you for saving me from Sherry...

Hello all,

I'm an aspiring author who has just this week started inundating our literary agent friends with query letters. I happened to send one to the Writers' Literary Agency & Marketing Company and got a very quick response wanting to see my work - too quick. So, I googled them, and you guys were link #2.

I owe you guys $90, but you'll have to split it.

All the best,
Austin

LloydBrown · Mar 22, 2007

Split this many ways? You might as well keep it.

Have you found the agent search discussion threads here yet? It's good reading.

Austin Wimberly · Mar 22, 2007

I will check those out directly...

I'm glad I found this place.

I did end up sending Sherry the following response:

Dear Ms Fine,
It was wonderful to hear about your interest in my work. I am very excited at the prospect of sharing in your enterprise. Together, I believe we can turn the wheels of Commerce in our favor.

Before I can send you my manuscript, however, I need to know a little more about you and your fine institution. They say that choosing a business partner is like choosing a marriage partner, so I need to be sure that you and I will have the proper relationship - perfectly balanced in its theology and geometry.

What are your favorite passages of Boethius?

Since you are in New York, you have undoubtedly run across that minx Myrna Minkoff. Do you know her? I'm afraid I cannot have any dealings with anyone associated with her.

I look forward to your reply. Perhaps the wheel of Fortuna is trending upwards for us. If you don't hear back from me for a few days, don't be too worried. My valve has been acting up again.

All the best...

Gravity · Mar 22, 2007

Austin Wimberly said:
Hello all,

I'm an aspiring author who has just this week started inundating our literary agent friends with query letters. I happened to send one to the Writers' Literary Agency & Marketing Company and got a very quick response wanting to see my work - too quick. So, I googled them, and you guys were link #2.

I owe you guys $90, but you'll have to split it.

All the best,
Austin

Every time this happens, I can almost picture Bobby gritting his teeth and doing his best Snidely Whiplash "curses, foiled again!" impression.

Yo, Bob, if they ever do a Great Race remake, you da man for the Professor Fate role.

Austin Wimberly · Mar 23, 2007

I heard back from Sherry

(S)he didn't get the "Confederacy of Dunces" references scattered in my original reply. I can't say I'm not disappointed. In fact, I think I'm more disappointed that (s)he didn't get the "Dunces" references than I am that (s)he tried to scam me. I mean, that's an awesome book.

victoriastrauss · Mar 23, 2007

I suspect you don't have to aim high to go over Sherry's head.

- Victoria

Writers Literary Agency / The Literary Agency Group / LAG /TLAG

JDsgirlbev

JDsgirlbev

Writer Beware Goddess

Absolutely Fazed

Seen 'em come, seen 'em go

Your Genial Uncle

Your Genial Uncle

Seen 'em come, seen 'em go

Your Genial Uncle

Preditors & Editors

On a wing and a prayer

Writer Beware Goddess

Stealthy Plot Bunny Peddler

Your Genial Uncle

Your Genial Uncle

Moderator In Name Only

Now departed. Rest in peace, Scott, from all of us

JDsgirlbev

Now departed. Rest in peace, Scott, from all of us

Seen 'em come, seen 'em go

Writer Beware Goddess