POV-MC's thoughts

I personally don't like internal italicised thoughts. I think a much better way of doing it would be:

Surely her father had a secret.

3rd Limited allows you to do this. Everything written in the narration is going through the character's head anyway.

p.s. welcome to the boards!

My is first person, but when I write 3rd then usually I keep to past tense, I just make it sound a little more stream of consciousness. Sometimes for certain thoughts I make them separate italicized comments - but the parts that are in past tense are there so you can follow the flow of his thoughts.

Actually, I tend to mix both, depending on what kind of a scene it is. It's probably consider an error by a lot of people (here or otherwise), but it seems to work. I'll usually put thoughts in the past tense as a part of the narrative itself, unless it's a very emotional - or crucial - bit, in which case I'll switch to italicized first person present tense.

Rhea L said:

Actually, I tend to mix both, depending on what kind of a scene it is. It's probably consider an error by a lot of people (here or otherwise), but it seems to work. I'll usually put thoughts in the past tense as a part of the narrative itself, unless it's a very emotional - or crucial - bit, in which case I'll switch to italicized first person present tense.

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Rhea, I do the same. I would think putting thoughts in first person without italicizing, would be a POV switch from third limited to first person.

That said, I tend to limit the amount I do this, as I don't enjoy reading a ton of italicized stuff myself and don't care to subject readers to it. But writing in close third limited, it's true that most everything is the character's thought so doesn't require "she thought" all over the place.

She recoiled inside.

“Have to get it while it lasts, then,” he said.

I'm the sexual equivalent of a McDonald's eggnog shake.

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Devil Ledbetter said:

I would think putting thoughts in first person without italicizing, would be a POV switch from third limited to first person.

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Most of Orson Scott Card's Ender series is written like that. Thoughts become part of the narrative without the use of italics or, really, any special formatting to distinguish them from the rest of the text. It worked wonderfully for me, creating really awesome level of intimacy with the POV characters - but then again, I love Card, so I might be just a little biased.

Zixi said:

I'm revising my YA novel and originally I had written the MC's thoughts as:

Surely, her father had a secret, she thought.

Now, in revision I have eliminated the tags and written the thoughts in italics.

Surely my father has a secret.

It's third person limited. The story takes place in the past.

My question then is, how do you write the MC's thoughts? In the present?
In the past? and if it is in the past, the main charaqcter wouldn't think about herself in the third person.

I'm getting myself confused.

I think 1st person is so much easier to write. Any clarification would be appreciated.

Thanks.

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You need only write, "Surely her father had a secret." No tags. No italics. No I.

It's third person limited, so any perceptions or evalutations of the outside world actually come from your character's subjectivity.

If she thinks a character is "ugly", he's described to us as "an ugly little man" as if that were an objective fact. The same goes for suppositions.

As others have said, yes, you can switch into first person present for thoughts if you wish to voice them as they would be in her head. Don't overuse the device, but it's a valid one and might help to establish crucial misconceptions, or character voice at a time of stress, etc.

Rhea L said:

Actually, I tend to mix both, depending on what kind of a scene it is. It's probably consider an error by a lot of people (here or otherwise), but it seems to work. I'll usually put thoughts in the past tense as a part of the narrative itself, unless it's a very emotional - or crucial - bit, in which case I'll switch to italicized first person present tense.

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Rhea has really nailed it here. There is no right or wrong, just a different effect. When we read the character's thoughts in the third person and past tense, we are indeed privy to their thoughts, but still "watching" them from the outside. A switch to present tense pulls us in tighter, a further switch to first person even tighter. At that point, our identification with the character is as close as the author can make it. This kind of stuff is called level of penetration, if you're fond of labels. You don't have to remember the label to remember how it works.

Zixi, you seem to be a little overly concerned with how things "should" be done. Back off, take a few deep breaths and ask yourself if it works. If it pulls you out of the story, it doesn't work. If it keeps you in the story and creates the effect you are aiming for, then it does. And that is what is important.

I think this is one of those personal taste issues. For me, because of the genre I work in, I need to be in 3rd person (various plot strands...I damn well need to be omnisicent...pain in the arse, that). So, to really get in a character's head I'll use italics to kick off a thought process, and then drop the italics as it can get old really quickly. eg.....

Liam politely listened to her as she droned on and on about smoking in the room.

Christ, I wish she'd just shut up.

He was tired of the same old shtick from his landlady. He gave her fifty pounds a week, he kept his room tidy, he didn't invite loose women back or butcher small animals in it, what the hell else did she want, for crying out loud?

Sheesh.

Usually, as above, I'll top and tail a character's internal thought process with some thought-bite in italics.

But like I say, i think this is down to personal taste..there is no 'Right Way'.

You got a couple ways to go about it.


1) If you are in deep third person POV, you can do Internal Monologue. The character talks to herself. I.M. is often put in Italics. The Internal Monolgoue is present tense and First Person. It uses the idiomatic and informal language the character 'thinks in' and is written as dialog.

Jenny drummed her fingers on the table. Papa's gaga if he thinks I'm going to Vasser.
Afternoon sunlight glistened on the turtles.


2) Iin deep POV, you can make it a simple internal. This is a representation of what the character thinks, stated in an intimate and informal way. When you're doing third person past, the internals are also third person past tense. These internals use the same language the character would 'think in'. Internals of this type are not put in Italics.

Jenny drummed her fingers on the table. Papa was gaga if he thought she was going to go to to Vasser.
Afternoon sunlight glistened on the turtles.


3) If you are not deep in POV, you can 'describe' the character's thoughts. You use the 'narrator's' language, not the character's language.

Jenny drummed her fingers on the table. Her father was crazy if he thought she was going to go to to Vasser.
Afternoon sunlight glistened on the turtles.

I give my MC thoughts...and usually put them in Italics... That works best for me, where it may not for others... I say, to each his/her own.

For me, I write internal monologue as from first person POV, without any tags and definitely without italics. Italics are so very hard to read in paperback form; if I can't read it, I won't inflict it on others. I have a lot of internal monologue in my stories too.


Elodie

Judg said:

There is no right or wrong, just a different effect... This kind of stuff is called level of penetration, if you're fond of labels.

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Yes, and a label of some sort is actually useful, because it takes a bit of time to describe the issue otherwise. I've always heard it called "psychic distance," but I'm pretty sure we're talking about the same thing.

The skillful handling of psychic distance is one of the things I admire in the best writers, who ease us into deep POV and pull us back without drawing attention to the shifts.

It's very much like to use of the camera in a movie--you can start way back, zoom in closer and closer, and then move to a view as seen from the inside. And like a camera move, it can be unnoticed, or it can be disruptive (and the latter is usually not what you want).

As the previous posts said, it isn't a matter of right or wrong, it's a matter of creating the effect you want. And I don't know any way to learn it other than very close reading.

The problem with using italics is that it establishes a dialogue between the character and the reader. If this is introduced early in the novel, it must be maintained throughout as not to make the reader wonder why it's not happening any more. If it's introduced halfway, the reader will wonder why it was never used before.

For this reason, I find it limits what I can do. I need to insert these internal thoughts to make the novel consistent. Some authors have the discipline to do this - I don't. I find it much easier just to put it in the narrative.