The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

Susan Gable · Mar 17, 2005

Diana, congratulations on the award nomination! Good luck in the finals!

Susan G.

James D. Macdonald · Mar 17, 2005

Hiya, Joe -- Atlanta Nights is sneaking up on Independence Books terrirtory. Think they'll make it an Honorary PA Book when it gets there? (I'll keep everyone posted.)

The official word, though, is it's Approaching a Million Copies Sold (Very Slowly), and The Majority of the Copies Sold Retail Are Sold Retail!

(And if you're half the wildman some folks claim you are, you'll wear your Atlanta Nights tee-shirt to the campout....)

AnneMarble · Mar 17, 2005

Susan Gable said:
Okay, I'm reading this book called Some Writers Deserve to Starve by Elaura Niles. Someone had recommended it somewhere as a book that really tells it like it is in the tough world of trying to get published. So, I ordered a copy.

I heard about this one recently, too. In a writing chat, someone mentioned it as the worst book on writing she had ever read, in part because of the praise of POD and PA. I think she had other problems with it.

Susan Gable said:

I agree, and also :Hammer:

Susan Gable said:
The rest of the book may be fantastic, but I don't think I'm going to be able to recommend it to other writers with this section in there. <sigh> We'll have to see how the rest of it is, first.

From what I remember of the discussion (chatcussion?), there may have been other information in the book that was ... "iffy."

Alphabeter · Mar 17, 2005

James D. Macdonald said:
An awful lot of those second books are submitted before the first book comes out. The authors are still in their honeymoon phase then.
I hear that PA is now giving themselves 720 days to bring out second books.

OUCH.

Write book.
Send book to PA.
PA takes a year to publish it.
Write second book.
Send book to PA.
PA will take two years to publish.

Meantime
Writer learns Truth about PA (tm).
Writer wants books back.
PA tells them Do Not Take that Tone with Us (tm).
Writer cringes and keeps writing.

Eight years later
Option on Book One runs out.

Ten years later
Option on Book Two runs out.

The above timeline brought to you by The Evil Triad of Maryland: Larry, Willem and Moeranda.

---
You know when I get behind on the PA thread...well, I must be busy writing!

Sarashay · Mar 17, 2005

I borrowed Some Writers Deserve To Starve from work and I just about threw it across the room when she sang the praises of Publish America. Much of the advice seemed pretty specious to me. Lots of stuff about writer's conference strategy that just made me want to throttle the author and yell "But what about WRITING?????" I wouldn't recommend it to anyone, except maybe for a good laugh.

Sher2 · Mar 17, 2005

WhisperingBard said:
Sheri, I agree. Banana splits, anyone?

Some bananas just need splittin'. Let's do it, Bard. I'll bring the chocolate syrup. :Clap:

Sher2 · Mar 17, 2005

T42 said:
I will make many mistakes and don’t mind them being pointed out. If I joke about it, that’s just how I cope with it, please don’t take my humor personal. I would love to have the intelligent answers that you all have but not….darn it! Gotta run…you all have a nice night.

Ha…I’ve been lied to and now I’m tone deaf…what did you say Kevin and Sheri?

You make darn few mistakes, Mem. Don't worry about it. Just keep the humor coming -- it's the perfect PA antidote. Seriously, you're tone deaf now? Does this mean you won't be demanding any more apologies? Say it ain't so!

Literary Lola · Mar 17, 2005

Susan Gable said:
Okay, I'm reading this book called Some Writers Deserve to Starve by Elaura Niles. <snipping for brevity>

Now, I read this: (p.61)

"The POD route requires the writer to think like a businessman, not a creative type. In 2002, I used PublishAmerica for my first novel, Zeus & His Mighty Nine Iron... The same day PublishAmerica offered me a publishing contract, I was independently offered the chance to work with a NY literary agent who wanted me to do a major rewrite of Zeus.

How I wish she'd gone with the literary agent and did the rewrite. Her book would have been that much better. I read Zeus & His Mighty Nine Iron and loved it. It's a simple, easy read with a fun, yet predictable ending. It's light and cute, and I'd recommend it to anyone provided the price were lowered about six bucks.

As for her publishing recommendations, well, it's a free world. She had a good experience and didn't mind the marketing aspect. She appears to be of rational mind so I don't feel compelled to nail her to the cross. Her happy PA experience gives her the legitimacy to pass around the POD bong. I only hope she realizes that she's in the serious minority.

T42 · Mar 17, 2005

Sher2 said:
You make darn few mistakes, Mem. Don't worry about it. Just keep the humor coming -- it's the perfect PA antidote. Seriously, you're tone deaf now? Does this mean you won't be demanding any more apologies? Say it ain't so!

I had to drop back in because I knew I would be getting harassed by you little missy.

Don’t make me turn you over to the stooges. I’m not sure but I’m pretty sure they are still looking for you. If I have to sick HB on you I will. Yes, I will still be demanding apologies long after you get your book back! Never mind, I think I will just ignore you and continue to advertise your book. I’m very proud of my printing abilities you know? Did I say advertise? I meant market! You will give us an apology for using blue ink when you know this is St. Patties day! Have you no shame?

JohnGalt · Mar 17, 2005

Susan Gable said:
Okay, I'm reading this book called Some Writers Deserve to Starve by Elaura Niles.

Thank you for posting this, Susan. I was going to buy that book. What a joke.

- JG

Sher2 · Mar 17, 2005

T42 said:
I had to drop back in because I knew I would be getting harassed by you little missy.

Don’t make me turn you over to the stooges. I’m not sure but I’m pretty sure they are still looking for you. If I have to sick HB on you I will. Yes, I will still be demanding apologies long after you get your book back! Never mind, I think I will just ignore you and continue to advertise your book. I’m very proud of my printing abilities you know? Did I say advertise? I meant market! You will give us an apology for using blue ink when you know this is St. Patties day! Have you no shame?

Mem. Sweetie. Would I harass you? Give you drama and histrionics and escapades? 'Tis still possessed by the spirit of the Evil Moeranda I'm thinkin' you are. Pssst -- I know where they're doing cheap exorcisms.

Mem, I'm begging you -- PLEASE don't advertise my book! Say you won't make me market it! I admit it, and I'll say it in front of the whole world -- I have no shame. Just please, please, please don't sic HB on me. I know I'm on their Most Wanted list. You won't blow my cover, will you? I'll do ANYthing. I'll -- I'll even apologize if you swear to keep them and their Enforcer in Maryland. Do we have a deal?

tab · Mar 17, 2005

Sarashay said:
I borrowed Some Writers Deserve To Starve from work and I just about threw it across the room when she sang the praises of Publish America. Much of the advice seemed pretty specious to me. Lots of stuff about writer's conference strategy that just made me want to throttle the author and yell "But what about WRITING?????" I wouldn't recommend it to anyone, except maybe for a good laugh.

What are her credentials?

astonwest · Mar 17, 2005

Galoot said:
Couldn't you have just asked for a private jet and saved yourself all that writing? They would have rejected you just the same.

Perhaps, but I wouldn't have had nearly as much fun reading their responses. :tongue

reph · Mar 17, 2005

ByGrace said:
Actually, I had to pay for my own lunch.

Not theirs too?

KevinYarbrough said:
I know how to do rep points, just curious as to how do we get another green box? How many rep points do we need...?

One hundred points gets you a second green box.

Jaws · Mar 17, 2005

James D. Macdonald said:
How the three biggest book chains are doing, dollars in thousands, from SEC form 10K (Annual Report):
Barnes & Noble 2002: $844.0 2003: $926.2 percent change: +9.7%
Borders Group 2002: $749.8 2003: $807.9 percent change: +7.7%
Books-A-Million 2002: $96.7 2003: $103.1 percent change: +6.6
Total 2002: $1,690.5 2003: $1,837.2 percent change: +8.7%
The annual reports for 2004 won't be filed until later this month or early next month.

Don't rely on these figures too much, though. For one thing, they include nonbook materials (such as, for Borders, periodicals; for B&N, periodicals and music and their own line of books; etc.). Second, they are gross amounts.
A better measure is the year-over-year change in same-store sales. That, I'm afraid, was considerably less rosy. (And it's easier to find in the 10-Q than in the 10-K.)

Ed Williams · Mar 17, 2005

Just thought I'd prance in here for a few moments...

....I have spent a day filled with pleasure, and modesty forbids me to go further into it. It appears that the ocean and a cottage may be in my future, and I am excited beyond belief, and the best thing is - it's free, unlike:

1. Artistfirst radio - This is getting lots of play on the PA boards, and we have a thread here regarding it that goes into much more detail (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8550). Bottom line, don't dare let yourselves get sucked into this - it's vanity radio, you have to pay to be on, and only the desperate or incredibly deluded would fool with it.

2. Anyone heard any updates about the big Holiday Inn booksigning? Did that just peter out, funny, I thought multi-author signings were the wave of the future. Maybe Jiffy Lube is trying to offer H B a better deal, those empty service bays could fit in a lot of authors, if you think about it....

3. And, from the PA boards...

Although I will be in my area promoting, it is still rather limited whereas if PA would place our books in various stores (B&N, Borders, Waldens, etc.) in areas such as New York, L.A., Chicago, Boston etc. and place it in a place where it could be seen by all (not buried on a dusty, hidden bookshelf somewhere) I believe our word could get out. The bookstores, a limited few, in my area all have a couple of large displays as you walk through the door advertising the 'NEW RELEASES'. If we could get a copy of our book placed alongside King, Grisham, Koontz, etc. we would definitely be seen.

It is so insidious of the New Three Stooges, Moe-randa, Larry, and Curlem, to allow their authors to chase such hopeless schemes, I can almost visualize them reading their own boards and laughing at each successive generation of authors who's allowed to embark on these wild goose chases. There will be a special place in literary hell for these three scam artists.

4. And finally, the number of new releases for PA this week: 74 books. A tad down from the fairly recent past, when 200-300 a week were "birthed."

I've gotta go, I can almost feel the sand in my shoes, and I want to go and think beach-like thoughts...

JDElder · Mar 17, 2005

Someone may have already addressed this already. Can someone confirm/not confirm that PA holds a right of first refusal on your 2nd book?? I signed a contact last year for the first one. I'd look it up myself except for the fact that all my stuff is boxed up (long story-getting married next week and it's just nuts right now).

DaveKuzminski · Mar 17, 2005

JD, it won't matter whether they do or not. You don't have to accept their contract for the second book even if you have to submit it to them. Just demand, rightfully, that they pay you an advance of $10,000 since your writing is worth every penny of that and they'll easily recoup their investment from the royalties it earns when they place it in real stores.

The latest versions of the PA contract appear to not have that section. Yours sounds like it's recent enough that PA can't demand you submit another book to them. Still, only you can answer whether it is or not, so you'll eventually have to take a look at it. So, if it doesn't then you're free and clear. If it does, just make that royalty advance demand. If they don't grant that, then don't sign the new contract. They can't force you to give them something for nothing.

Sher2 · Mar 17, 2005

Ed Williams said:
I've gotta go, I can almost feel the sand in my shoes, and I want to go and think beach-like thoughts...

Ocean, cottage, sand in your shoes -- sounds heavenly.

About the (record?) low number of new PA releases, is it possible that the writing on the wall is being seen?

James D. Macdonald · Mar 17, 2005

JDElder said:
Someone may have already addressed this already. Can someone confirm/not confirm that PA holds a right of first refusal on your 2nd book??

As I understand it, some versions of their contract do, some don't. There may be variations among the ones that do, too.

Ed Williams said:
4. And finally, the number of new releases for PA this week: 74 books. A tad down from the fairly recent past, when 200-300 a week were "birthed."

It was more than 150 last week.

The bookstores, a limited few, in my area all have a couple of large displays as you walk through the door advertising the 'NEW RELEASES'. If we could get a copy of our book placed alongside King, Grisham, Koontz, etc. we would definitely be seen.

That's prime space. The publishers pay for it -- that's some of the promotoin that not all authors get. (As opposed to the promotion that all authors do get).

It's true that not all authors get all the possible promtion. In some cases, it's because the promotion wouldn't help (no one buys a first book by an unknown author because of a radio ad). In other cases, it's just physically impossible to give all authors the same promtion -- you couldn't fit every book on the table down front. In those cases, the bookstore says, "We have this much space for these many books. Okay, guys, start bidding."

PA won't pay for it, and authors can't. So sorry.

JDElder · Mar 17, 2005

DaveKuzminski said:
JD, it won't matter whether they do or not. You don't have to accept their contract for the second book even if you have to submit it to them. Just demand, rightfully, that they pay you an advance of $10,000 since your writing is worth every penny of that and they'll easily recoup their investment from the royalties it earns when they place it in real stores.

The latest versions of the PA contract appear to not have that section. Yours sounds like it's recent enough that PA can't demand you submit another book to them. Still, only you can answer whether it is or not, so you'll eventually have to take a look at it. So, if it doesn't then you're free and clear. If it does, just make that royalty advance demand. If they don't grant that, then don't sign the new contract. They can't force you to give them something for nothing.

10k huh? I should have thought of that last May.

JennaGlatzer · Mar 17, 2005

Susan and Sarashay, thanks for the warning. I almost bought that book, too-- great title. Sounds like yet another book about writing by someone who's not qualified to write a book about writing, though. Sigh.

WhisperingBard · Mar 17, 2005

(long story-getting married next week and it's just nuts right now).

Congrats, JD! Many blessings to you both!

10k huh? I should have thought of that last May.

I'm thinking about asking for a chauffeured limousine, myself.

KellyS. · Mar 17, 2005

James D. Macdonald said:
An awful lot of those second books are submitted before the first book comes out. The authors are still in their honeymoon phase then.

I hear that PA is now giving themselves 720 days to bring out second books.

I have a friend who's published her third book with PA. She knows that the marketing and the like isn't there, but feels she is stuck. The second one she submitted was in fact during the honeymoon phase. Her problem is that it's a series. She's older and feels that she would rather get her books out there instead of waiting for another publisher. In her defense, she did try several publishers before going with PA. I know she is doing this for her family, but really it isn't doing anything financially for them at all.

I hated telling her all that I've found out. I guess that's telling in and of itself. I didn't want to hurt her emotionally, yet felt obligated to let her know, nevertheless. I've read her books and they are pretty good. There aren't any grammatical errors or anything like that. However, we know that's not the whole ball of wax by a long shot.

I hate to see her throw it all to PA. I guess she isn't ready yet. I'm getting together with her soon and going to try to get her to try another publisher before submitting to PA again. She's asked me some pointed questions and wants to discuss things at length when we get together. This woman researchs like you wouldn't believe and has such a vast array of experiences, that it kills me she is with PA. Oh, the potential!

She may be into the process of the fourth book with them. If so, I think they would give her heck about terminating all of her contracts with them. If she managed this task, she would have to completely rewrite all of the books to resubmit them elsewhere, correct?

T42 · Mar 18, 2005

Sheri2 did you steal someone’s green box? :Shrug:

The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

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Shut Up and Write

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Dipsomaniac on the floor!

2 WIP? A glutton for punishment

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Preditors & Editors

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wishes you happiness

Wary...and weary

*****

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