The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

Alphabeter · Mar 20, 2005

They look exactly like I thought they would.

Middle-aged character actors who are trying to clinge to their thirties while climbing swiftly to their fifties.

My apologies to a few absolutely wonderful male members of this site who [may] fall into that age bracket. I consider y'all mere literary children. Evil ages one faster.

<menacing tone>The sheer vicious manipulative dream-crushing soul-destroying evil that is Publish America.</tone>

Ed Williams · Mar 20, 2005

Joy...

...I do hope you are looking right in my direction when you say that, as I'm approaching fifty quicker than a desert straggler approaches a raspberry ICEE...

On a more topical note, a PA author makes a statement about royalty payments that is sure to resonate with each reader of this post:

I've been reading about the royalties. Please tell me they are more than the postage necessary to send them out to the authors!

James D. Macdonald · Mar 20, 2005

Y'know, when I saw the latest incarnation of the AP article, I noticed this:

One of his clients, Willem Meiners, owned a publishing company called Erica House, the kind of place frustrated authors often turn to. It was a vanity press — a business that makes authors pay to be published.

That called to mind something Denny Hatch said in his article:

[font=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]

Further, vanity publishers-who operated under the old offset printing model-tended to be terrible shysters. They would charge an author for the setup, for printing, for binding, and for storage-often with a 500-book minimum. A year later there might be 400 copies left in the warehouse, whereupon the publisher would write the author and say that unless the author wanted to buy these 400 copies, they would be turned into landfill. But the author had already bought and paid for the 400 copies! The publisher was going to charge double. Most authors did not know the difference, could not bear the thought of their work being trashed, and paid up.

Hmmm... I said. Where did Denny meet a vanity publisher? What vanity publisher did he talk with about how a vanity press might do business?

The answer is: He knows Willem Meiners. I wonder -- was Denny describing Willem's business practices?

That thing about charging for "copies in the warehouse" sure sounds familiar....

[/font]

Moondancer · Mar 20, 2005

James D. Macdonald said:
[font=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]

That thing about charging for "copies in the warehouse" sure sounds familiar....

[/font]

Yup, and quickly after you buy the said copies, they'll terminate your contract.

Alphabeter · Mar 20, 2005

You're only as old as your vinyl Eddie darlin'. How is your BTO collection?

Don't tempt me with ICEEs. I'm trying to deal with a pixistix hangover. Sugar crash is NOT nice!

MoonDancer said:
Yup, and quickly after you buy the said copies, they'll terminate your contract.

But that's not what Larry said:
Besides making it harder for bookstores to feature the titles, print-on-demand “relieves PublishAmerica of inventory pressure — the kind of pressure that forces a publisher to promote a book in order to make a positive return on an investment,” said Nancy Etchemendy, membership chairman of the Horror Writers Association, which has yet to accept a PublishAmerica author.

“What she’s saying is essentially correct,” Clopper said.

“That’s why we are able to publish 10,000 books.” He said more than 1,000 PublishAmerica titles have not a sold a copy; PublishAmerica released those books at a loss.

How can it be a loss when no copies were printed? And if they didn't sell, who lost anything but the author?

Edit: Oh and 11,000 authors-1,000=10,000 divided by 10,000 books published=1 copy per author (presuming average).
And since we know every single one of those published books has been sold...

writerjenn · Mar 20, 2005

lindylou45 said:
Sherry,

No, no, you've got it wrong -- it's Another Prick in the Hall! See you there!

OMG! Warn me when you're gonna do that, will ya? I'm choking and coughing up pepsi all over the place.

Jenn

Moondancer · Mar 20, 2005

Alphabeter said:
How can it be a loss when no copies were printed? And if they didn't sell, who lost anything but the author?

Because what they say and what they do has been and are two different things. I'm sure they'll find a reason why they have 49 copies, such as somebody ordered them and didn't pay for them... you know, the 30-60-90 day thing. They are very good at finding "explanations" for everything.

If they were half as good at running a real traditional publishing house as they are at conning people, y'all would be in good shape.

JennaGlatzer · Mar 20, 2005

Good Lord. Quote time. (Denny's article as linked by Jim.)

When a book signing is staged by the publicity department of a traditional publisher, chances are very good that books will not be at the venue. Every author at this PublishAmerica book signing had books available to sign. Larry Clopper and Willem Meiners made sure of that - going as far as to bring copies of just-publsiehd books with them on IcelandAir.

Click to expand...

Class, please turn to page one of this thread.

I've never had books not turn up when my publishers have arranged signings. PA, however, has failed miserably at this, and has led to many canceled signings and embarrassed authors who showed up for signings and found no books to sell. The ones who are allowed signings typically have to buy and bring their own books.

Commercial publishers DO NOT DO THIS to you!

[font=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]So when Publish America told me the book had been accepted, I went to the Website to see who they were and what they did. The featured book that day was 1001 Ways to Market Your Book by John Kremer. I knew Kremer to be a first rate book promotion guy and figured it PublishAmerica was okay for Kremer it was okay by me. I signed with PublishAmerica.

[/font]
[font=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]Someone help me understand this-- did Kremer ever publish through PA or promote them? I know 1001 Ways was NOT published through PA!

However, a publisher with 600 titles a year is able to give each title about half a day's worth of publicity. In actuality, each title gets much, much less, since the "big books" by the "star authors" (those in which the company has invested the most money) get the major attention by the publicity department.

Let me understand... he's saying that most commercially published books get "much, much less" than half a day's worth of publicity?

Sad thing is he says he's been published with a commercial publisher. Why does he not understand what's been done on his behalf?

It turned out that on the day the publicity department was to work on my book, a new publicity director took over. In the transition, none of the labels were generated and sent to the warehouse. I was devastated. Two years of my life were shot.

Well, that's a pretty extreme notion. Clue 1: Tell them to send review copies now. All is not lost. Clue 2: Reviews are nice, but not the only thing that sells books. Did your commercial publisher put out a catalog? Have a distributor?

The result is that PublishAmerica is closing in on 5,000 titles in print and legion of proud, enthusiastic authors is running around the countryside busily promoting their books.

Hmm. While I'm sitting here on my duff writing my next one with my cat on my lap. Running around the countryside makes me tired just thinking about it.

Where traditional publishers have to sell 5,000, 10,000, and sometimes 15,000 of a title before they break even, PublishAmerica needs sales that are a tiny fraction of that amount.

How does that benefit you, the author? All that means is that PA needs to do even less work and sell fewer books for it to make a profit for itself. It gives them a golden license to be lazy and let you sell a carton of books by yourself.

Author queries are answered within two or three business days; manuscripts are evaluated and a go/no-go publishing decision is made within two weeks. Instead of making authors feel like dirt, PublishAmerica is in the business of making authors feel good about themselves, their work and their value on this planet.

I'm sorry. I just vomited.

I can't go on.[/font]

Kevin Yarbrough · Mar 20, 2005

Yes the clinic can handle influx of any author who witness's the pictures of Publishings Dark Princes. The remedy is simple. When you least expect it we will flash you a picture of Ed posed in a seductive pose, wearing a g-string while slurping on an Icee with a fur Boa around his neck. He is smiling really big as he plays with the straw in his mouth. The bubble above him says "If you like what you see, my number is 555-EDED."

I don't know if this will work for everyone, but it did for me. Now, you all will be test subjects so we will have to do this the right way. Some will be in the Ed group, others will be in the control group. The control will be me in the same pose. When all is done I will see which one worked best.

DeadlyAccurate · Mar 20, 2005

[font=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]Author queries are answered within two or three business days; manuscripts are evaluated and a go/no-go publishing decision is made within two weeks. Instead of making authors feel like dirt, PublishAmerica is in the business of making authors feel good about themselves, their work and their value on this planet.[/font]

If I wanted to go to a business that made me feel good about myself, I'd visit a therapist. I want a publisher in the business of making money. For both of us.

Kate StAmour · Mar 20, 2005

JennaGlatzer said:
Good Lord. Quote time. (Denny's article as linked by Jim.)

I'm sorry. I just vomited.

I can't go on.[/size][/font]

I just hurled too. Somebody didn't do their research.

Sher2 · Mar 20, 2005

Kate StAmour said:
I just hurled too. Somebody didn't do their research.

Dang, there's a lot of that going on today. :tongue

May be an epidemic of PAitis, or 49-copy OD, or even PA psychosis. I hope they get that clinic open soon.

DaveKuzminski · Mar 20, 2005

Alphabeter said:
“That’s why we are able to publish 10,000 books.” He said more than 1,000 PublishAmerica titles have not a sold a copy; PublishAmerica released those books at a loss.

How can it be a loss when no copies were printed? And if they didn't sell, who lost anything but the author?

They still had to publish two copies for each of those just over 1,000 PA titles to give to the authors.

Now if only more PA authors would take that course and let PA publish them, but not self-purchase any books. I think another 10,000 authors would be close to the amount needed to shut down PA.

Larry creep. Larry creep.

Alphabeter · Mar 20, 2005

JennaGlatzer said:
[font=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]I'm sorry. I just vomited.
I can't go on.[/font]

You're not pregnant are you Jenna? :Wha:

I'm sure it will be wonderful for you and your husband, but we are we supposed to do? Uncle Jim and Victoria and Ann and Mac are great, but without Mom who will give us our shiny blobs of spectacular light? :poke:

It was PA making you sick? Oh.

Can you sue a company for loss of consortium? I can't go to red and white website without trembling fear of clueless stupidity now. :gone:

PA-the only disease that resonates in toner.

Sher2 · Mar 20, 2005

Kevin Yarbrough said:
The bubble above him says "If you like what you see, my number is 555-EDED."

I don't know if this will work for everyone, but it did for me.

Is there something we should know? :banana:

Alphabeter · Mar 20, 2005

Kevin Yarbrough said:
I don't know if this will work for everyone, but it did for me. Now, you all will be test subjects so we will have to do this the right way. Some will be in the Ed group, others will be in the control group. The control will be me in the same pose. When all is done I will see which one worked best.

I'll be in the Ed group. I have pictures of Kevin with a tree that I can use for "control". :roll:

DaveKuzminski · Mar 20, 2005

Sher2 said:
Is there something we should know?

Maybe the first ED stands for E.D.?

Alphabeter · Mar 20, 2005

DaveKuzminski said:
They still had to publish two copies for each of those just over 1,000 PA titles to give to the authors.

I thought the authors paid the $29 copyright fee (which a real publisher does for the author) which essentially 'paid' for those 'free' author copies-hence not losing any 'real' money for Larry, Willem, and Moe-randa's bottom lines?

Kevin Yarbrough · Mar 20, 2005

Alphabeter said:
I'll be in the Ed group. I have pictures of Kevin with a tree that I can use for "control".

Joy, you sure that is a tree?

Sherry, no there isn't. I found the pic on the net. You can find it here.
www.publishamerica.com/wmeiners/homepage/edpic1

Never know what you will find these days.

PA- the only communicable disease that is spread without human interaction.

lindylou45 · Mar 20, 2005

writerjenn said:
OMG! Warn me when you're gonna do that, will ya? I'm choking and coughing up pepsi all over the place.

Jenn

Sorry, but check out the song on the Take it outside board under Lord of the Prance. I've really got to stop writing songs and get back to writing! :whip:

Alphabeter · Mar 20, 2005

Kevin Yarbrough said:
Joy, you sure that is a tree?

I know its not the wood you're trying to measure by there Kev. :box:

www.publishamerica.com/wmeiners/homepage/edpic1

NOT FOUND! :Huh:

lindylou45 · Mar 20, 2005

"PublishAmerica is in the business of making authors feel good about themselves, their work and their value on this planet."

Is it really the publisher's job to make the author feel good about themselves? Wouldn't it be better if they sold their books to the general public?

Ed Williams · Mar 20, 2005

Linda, don't be a cynic now...

....the New Three Stooges, Moe-randa, Larry, and Curlem, want their authors to feel good about themselves while they themselves want their wallets to feel good. That's the definition of true happiness in the Merry Olde Land of Poz...

P.S. I have contributed a ditty on the Take It Outside Board, may Don McLean take pity on my wretched soul...

robeiae · Mar 20, 2005

lindylou45 said:
"PublishAmerica is in the business of making authors feel good about themselves, their work and their value on this planet."

I thought one's family and friends were responsible for these duties. But wait, that who PA sells to. So...PA is doing exactly what the quote implies, they've just added the "business" part. Hey, somebody's got to make a profit, right?

Seriously though, I become depressed now whenever I visit the PA boards. It's kind of like listening to a herd of cows who are happily grazing and talking about their big plans for the future, not knowing they are about to become steaks.

I questioned the need for this conitinuing barrage of attacks against PA (in a roundabout way) in an earlier post. I see now that I didn't really get it... treating these people in this fashion, using their dreams and hopes to make a buck (literally) borders on the criminal. The question is: when will we see it actually be criminal?

Just some thoughts.

Rob

Ed Williams · Mar 20, 2005

Rob (and anyone else I may have missed)...

....welcome, hope you will hang around and post often.

Folks, things are a bit tense over on the PA boards, a simple suggestion about perhaps adding an author's chatroom has turned into pretty much a war - read for thyselves:

http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/8352.htm

The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

Player of the Letters

Your Genial Uncle

Player of the Letters

wishes you happiness

Will write for peace of mind

Absolutely Fazed

Woooo Chaaaa!

Auroraless ExPAtriate

Preditors & Editors

Player of the Letters

Auroraless ExPAtriate

Player of the Letters

Preditors & Editors

Player of the Letters

Will write for peace of mind

The Stooge Slayer

Player of the Letters

The Stooge Slayer

Touch and go