Rain Publishing

No but they turned down my novel submission.

CaoPaux said:

Have you received an answer, Janet?

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triceretops said:

My heart-felt apologies, folks.

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I hasten to add that my "Id##t" comment was *not* directed at you, Chris. 'Tain't your fault, and you don't need to apologize, imo.

There are any number of places they might have used to create their mailing list. I'll ask around and see if anyone on SFF.Net or SFWA received the same mailing.

I don't quite get all this vehemence. I'm with Rain, and thus far have been treated with the utmost courtesy and respect. Never once have I been asked for anything the slightest bit shady. Yes, Rain is relatively small; and yes, Rain is based in Canada. Both make it tougher on a U.S. writer than might otherwise be the case. But crooked? Shady? Idiotic? Certainly not from my experience. Anything but.

Thanks, Beth. The only thing I know for sure is when I turned in my author questionaire, I listed AW, Chronicles, The Write Corner, and a few other groups that I belong to. It would be a simple matter for them to go into those and dig up addys. I've recieved numerous flyers from member's publishers here at AW--got one yesterday. Doesn't really bother me, in fact they're kinda neat to get, especially when I know the person. Only problem is, I don't recognize their real names sometimes. And me, I don't list my real name in my profile. Hah! Alas, I am cursed with Triceratops.

Tri

Ah, Jim, nice to see you. Yeppers, they are Canadian. Tilly's message here is 26 months old, and a lot has changed since then. She admittedly came off way too flowery, and it certainly was a solicitation for writers. No bones about it. I don't know if that's when she officially opened the doors of Rain. Anyway that activity has stopped. In fact she's embarassed by her logo now and wants ideas on how to change it. They've been good to me. And I do know that they read the book two or three times before editing, by passing it around to all the staff.

Tri

triceretops said:

My heart-felt apologies, folks. Don't know why they would be doing this. I only have seven authors on my release list from this group (that are private emails), and none of you were on it.

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Hi Chris,
All of my business accounts were spammed with news of your book release. Somehow I was suspicious you'd be mortified to hear everyone was getting spammed, and I feel badly for you. This is not how anyone should sell books. I emailed Sarah Hylton at Rain Books and informed her that she/they should be ashamed.

triceretops said:

My heart-felt apologies, folks. Don't know why they would be doing this. I only have seven authors on my release list from this group (that are private emails), and none of you were on it. This suspiciously coincides with my release. I'm telling them not to spam the board.

I will say that, with the help of other authors, we have been instrumental in getting them to change their policies--targeting readership--using the internet bookstore sites more effectively, and lowering shipping charges. We have a way to go, but progress is being made.

Sorry for the inconvienence. Heck, I haven't even seen my own release, if that is what is being sent around here. PM me and let me know what this entails.

Kind regards

Tri (real name--Chris Stevenson).

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Chris,


I got your release today and I was happy as heck to see it. I understand the people complaining, I suppose, but I'm sure not one of them. (Maybe I was one of the private emails?/!!?)


Chris

OneTeam OneDream said:

Chris,


I got your release today and I was happy as heck to see it. I understand the people complaining, I suppose, but I'm sure not one of them. (Maybe I was one of the private emails?/!!?)


Chris

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I'm reading Chris' book now ... and loving it.

Thanks for the support. I did inlcude some AW members as "friends" on my list. Trouble is, some of them don't know my real name or the connection. Please just delete if it bothers you.

Tri (Chris Stevenson)

Okay -- HELP!!!! This is my first posting, so I hope I don't screw it up!! I have been sent a Letter of Intent from a potential publisher. It states "The AUTHOR agrees to transfer full copyright(s) to..." the publishing co. Is this now how it is normally done? Should I fight to maintain the copyright but agree to transfer the publishing rights? Is there a difference that this publisher does not understand and so it is mis-stated in the LOI, or is this just a crappy contract?

"The AUTHOR agrees to transfer full copyright(s) to..."

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Don't sign that contract.

What's the name of the publisher?

Rain Publishing out of Toronto. I've been in contact with several of their writers today and am getting mixed reviews. Been burned too many times with crappy publishing deals and now am very gun shy

If they are asking for copyright, you should avoid them. I wouldn't even ask for them to change it to publishing rights. They are trying to scam writers, so why give them your business?

Okay, so I am not trying to be a smarta%$ here, but what is the difference? There are websites from legal firms that say that the publisher needs the copyright transfer in order to act on behalf of the writer. I know I sound like an idiot, but I really need to have this straight in my apparently smurfette-sized brain!!

reigningcatsndogs said:

Okay, so I am not trying to be a smarta%$ here, but what is the difference? There are websites from legal firms that say that the publisher needs the copyright transfer in order to act on behalf of the writer. I know I sound like an idiot, but I really need to have this straight in my apparently smurfette-sized brain!!

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The publisher does not need the copyrights to publish--he needs a grant of license by the copyright holder. If you give away the copyright, you no longer own the book. The holder of the copyright gets to publish as they please in whatever formats and you no longer have any interest in the work. It's like writing for hire, if they aren't willing enough to pay you adequately for a write for hire contract, don't give up your copyrights. you won't have rights to say boo about what they do with your book or get any recompense for it.

Regards,
Scott

Wow -- okay. Thanks so much for explaining that. Perhaps that was why this morning I found so many of this publisher's books on Google Books. I was wondering why a publisher would put the books there where they are totally accessible for free -- how does that benefit the writer or the publisher and why would the writer's want that to happen? Perhaps the writers don't know or can't do anything about it if they gave up the copyright? I have gone through damned near every book I own and I found one (Silas Marner) that had the copyright turned over to the publisher. Guess that says enough!!

Silas Marner is in the public domain. I bet that what the publisher is claiming copyright to is a preface/afterword or footnotes.

You'll find some commentary on publishers taking copyright here: http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32966

You guys are amazing!!! Thanks!!!!

I have contacted Rain and they are adamant that they must have the copyright in their name. The issue is totally non-negotiable. I found several of their books on Google Books, where they are copied in their entirety for reading, printing or download. I talked to some of the authors whose books appear here and they were never told about it. Raid has advised me that they have decided to no longer participate in this program, but that still means the authors of those other books are totally screwed. There is no place to purchase their books, other than from a couple of Canadain military base stores (Canex), from one or two stores where some of their authors live, and from the publisher themselves, and authors concerns about this have not been addressed at all. I have talked with two authors who are thrilled with their publisher, I have talked to many more who are definitely not. I very sincerely wish all of them the best of luck with their books, but I would warn people very strongly about signing new contracts with them.

I just had a look at their website, and it bothered me too. First things first, they are not getting my copyrights. Period, end of sentence. I retain my copyright for everything that's not work for hire. If I am doing work for hire, that's something that gets worked out up front, not when I submit something original.

Their manuscript requirements also set off tons of red flags for me:

Formatting Requirements
# Arial font-11 point type.
# Single-space lines, both within and between paragraphs.
# When printed, the pages should be formatted so that they will print on 5-1/2 x 8-1/2”, one-sided.
#
Please send all manuscripts as a separate attachment.

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That looks suspiciously like asking the author to do their own typesetting, which precludes any serious editing on Rain's part. In fact I'd go so far as to say that's a terrible format for editing. Also, when I went to Google Books I found that at least one of Ms. Rivers' books had exactly that format.

I won't be sending anything there; ever.

deathwizard said:

I don't quite get all this vehemence. I'm with Rain, and thus far have been treated with the utmost courtesy and respect. Never once have I been asked for anything the slightest bit shady. Yes, Rain is relatively small; and yes, Rain is based in Canada. Both make it tougher on a U.S. writer than might otherwise be the case. But crooked? Shady? Idiotic? Certainly not from my experience. Anything but.

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It would seem that you're one of the few here with direct experience.

1) Did you sign your copyrights over to Rain publishing?
2) Did you pay them any money?
3) Did you receive an advance?
4) Have they distributed hard copies of your book to bookstores?

If the answers are --

1) I hold the copyright. They have first North American Publication Rights only.
2) Not a penny.
3) $2000. and
4) The books are on the shelves of Barnes and Noble right now.

Then I'd say you've signed with a good small press.

It's not all that hard to tell a small press from a scammer. You look which way the money flows.

job said:

It's not all that hard to tell a small press from a scammer. You look which way the money flows.

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There's more than two versions of small presses. It's just not someone being either a good small press or being a scammer. There are degrees in between. There are small presses started by individuals who are honest and well-intentioned but just uneducated about the realities of the publishing industry. Those small presses, started by individuals who are not as informed as they should be when starting a publishing business, by individuals who are simply clueless, are not scammers; they're just bad ideas to do business with.

To me, a scam publisher or agent actively attempts to separate authors from their money. That is their business model. A publisher that is a bad idea is one that is well-intentioned, but not prepared to do all that a publisher needs to do to succeed. A writer should choose not to partner with one that they think is destined to fail or incapable of fulfilling their business obligations.

job said:

1) Did you sign your copyrights over to Rain publishing?
2) Did you pay them any money?
3) Did you receive an advance?
4) Have they distributed hard copies of your book to bookstores?

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I currently have a Rain contract in my hand, and based on this contract that I will not sign,
1) they want full copuright transferred to Rain Publishing -- and on that they 'will not budge'
2) you get five free copies and then pay full pop on all others, and if you sell any you have to provide full accounting for them back to Rain
3) no advance at all
4) their books are available only through the publisher's website or from the author, unless the author makes other arrangements personally and just for their own works. That being said, many of their titles are available for free on Google Books (with a link to Rain Publishing btw)

This information is not conjecture on my part, and not based on heresay, but 1-3 come directly from the contract (dated within the last month) and 4 from my own findings. If anyone wants more info about the contents of the contract, feel free to PM me

reigningcatsndogs said:

I currently have a Rain contract in my hand, ...
1) they want full copuright transferred to Rain Publishing -- and on that they 'will not budge'

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So the author trades his copyright for five copies of his book.
Boy. Talk about selling yourself cheap.



The sad part is -- there's no way back for these authors once that copyright is gone.

They can't just wait a few years till their contract runs out and then take their rights and try again.

If ... When ... Rain goes out of business
(unless the contract covers this?)
the copyright goes into the wind with them.

The author won't be able to get more copies of his own work.
He can't legally have it printed by LuLu.
He can't quote his own work extensively.
He can't put the e-text on his site.
He can't write derivative works.
If Rain owns the copyright on Work One in a series
the author can't write and sell the other works in the series.


I'll be happy to hear from someone who's selling books like hotcakes..

But I suspect the only books Rain will sell are the ones the authors sell for them.
And they don't even get an author's discount on the hard copies.

This seems a sad, sad business.

Birol said:

There's more than two versions of small presses. It's just not someone being either a good small press or being a scammer. There are degrees in between. ... There are small presses started by individuals who ...simply clueless, (they) are not scammers;
....
To me, a scam publisher or agent actively attempts to separate authors from their money.

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As the old adage says, do not assume villainy when stupidity explains just as well.
I agree.


However, there are also scammers.

Sometimes the 'business model' is that the scammer does not charge the sucker for publishing a book.
Instead, he sells the sucker books, directly or indirectly.

This business of co-opting the copyrights.
That's bad for the author. Just plain bad.