What We Deserve

Well, nuts. No wonder she's feeling oppressed.

Milady, Rose, you are not the first, nor, unfortunately, will you be last. But you are valuable.

If you hadn't written it, they could not have abused you over it. Take heart in your accomplishment for having told the story. Please do not spend your time hating them, or anguishing over their actions. No one like that deserves that much of your energy.

Speaking of deserving energy, I'm thinking my boss would like me to devote some of mine to the office.

poetinahat said:

I believe that all people start out deserving of respect, but that they can lose it by misdeeds.

Admiration, now, that's a different story.

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Hear Hear. The respect in this case is the chance to be heard. And the admiration will come based on the message. I appreciate the chance to hear Rose's message. If we are working to be the best writers we can be then let's hope that an editor and publisher as she describes is lucky enough to find our work on their desk.

[B said:

Bartholomew;1464972]Everyone deserves my respect. It is my disrespect they must earn[/B].

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Nicely put.

This discussion turned ugly really fast! I hate to join in this nasty little bandwagon, but I have a few HUGE pet peeves from working with teenagers (and I certainly hope our teen members out there get a chance to look this over).

1. I don't owe you SHIT. Young people who happen to read this, I apologize for the use of adult language, but understand this is for emphasis.

2. You don't deserve SHIT.


I don't assume the worst, and Bartholomew said it best; you have my respect, it's my disrespect you must earn. I am, however, sick of kids saying they deserve an 'A' for that test on which they made 76. Nope; if you'd made a 93, like a third of the class, you would deserve an 'A'.

3. Don't tell me you deserve respect, or that I'm (and I REALLY hate this word) 'disrespectin' you. Methinks thou protest too loudly. If you're demanding it, you lost it somewhere. No complete stranger is going to look at you and think, "Boy, I'll bet this is a smart, competent person. He/She is gonna get a trunkload of my respect." Nor do they walk up to you and urinate on you pants leg. You pretty much, with a few unavoidable exceptions, start out with a clean slate with strangers. If you think you need respect in my classroom, you may first need to complete a couple of assignments, prepare really well for an exam and show results, receive instead of transmit while I'm teaching.

I do understand how the original poster feels; sometimes strangers with power over our success seem callous and unresponsive, and they don't love our babies (in this case, of course, stories) as much as we, and it seems as though we deserve a bit more of their time. I just have a hard time taking rejection or postponement of reply/acceptance/rejection personally. We need to read on the agent's websites what they are saying about the number of queries they receive, and the amount of time it takes them to do all justice, and actually BELIEVE them. Maybe they're telling the truth. I know I wouldn't change jobs with an agent or a publisher for double the money I make now.

I think the problem is that she's writing it from the perspective of being a PublishAmerica author and having to deal with the crap coming not only from THAT "publisher" but from the misfits on the PAMB who abuse other PA authors and are encouraged and rewarded by PA to do so.

Rats, I just went back and saw what the original poster wrote while I was ranting.

There were some very rude replies, and I am afraid mine came across that way. Just my personal opinion; and, as I said, I do understand where you're coming from. My remarks were more a chance to get out to folks in general one of the things that I see as a possible pothole for our country; parents are teaching kids they are owed stuff.

I don't want to try to quash your comments, they are very valid. It also seems to me that you have been published, which is a helluva lot more than I can say. If you have a proven track record, you DO have certain rights I don't have- You deserve a longer look from agents, publishers, etc. Until I do something to lose your personal respect, I should have it. Until I prove I can write something you can sell, I don't deserve crap.

Really sorry if I offended. If you say something stupid, I'll call it stupid and not apologize. This seemed a reasonable set of comments that called for reasonable responses.

You think of yourself as a 'master of the written word' and produce a post like that and are surprised you got some of the responses you did? You got off lightly. If you don't want to be misunderstood and this post does deal with Publish America you should clarify that. Seriously, why don't you read through it again and see how it looks to others instead of complaining about being treated unfairly Food for thought, maybe you should chew it over.

I know this thread was moved from B&BC, but if this is a PA discussion, I may need to move it again, to the PA-subforum.

The thing about the term "respect" is that it has two basic connotations. The first means being treated with common courtesy. This is the same as the golden rule, treating others as you yourself want to be treated.

The second is something more and implies being looked up to, admired, or treated as an authority on some matter.

I do believe that the first is something that we all should expect and that we all deserve until, as Bart says, our own actions lose it for us. The second has to be earned.

For now, I think we can all give Rose a little common courtesy and give her a chance to respond and explain further.

yes, Lori, I think there would have been far less confusion if this was posted in the PA sub-forum. Understanding that context makes a world of difference.

Birol said:

I know this thread was moved from B&BC, but if this is a PA discussion, I may need to move it again, to the PA-subforum.

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I would suggest it be moved because it seems to be only aimed at PublishAmerica and the way they treat their authors. Most legitimate publishers don't have message boards that allow such personal attacks from one author to the other.

Having said that, the original post could have been much, MUCH clearer as to the source. As you can see from reading the responses there was a definite lack of communication.

Unless, of course, Rose meant something altogether different and *I'm* the one making the improper reference to the PAMB.

*shrugs*

You are always rude to me. Why? You just gave me a bad rep AGAIN!
There are some, perhaps many, here who can benefit from my post whether you like it or not.

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I am not always rude to you. I have given you two bad rep points and two positive ones. I have given 3 bad rep points in total since being a member. The one today was after your last angry, 'helper to the multitudes' post and said - 'get over yourself, please.' I wish you would. I thought it better said in private than in public.

If you would rather I posted anything I disagreed with to you in a private pm or email I can do that but I don't want you to complain here if I do.

I did not mean to sound offensive, and do apologize if I did.

I should not have presumed that "deserve" would be the same hot-button word for everyone else that it is for me.

This thread has made quite the journey. It started life in B&BC, was moved to the Roundtable, but I believe its true home is the PA-subforum. Please give it lots of TLC guys.

There are many happy AW members/PA authors here. I enjoy talking to a few on and off the boards. Has the thought ever crossed your mind that if you are the one with the problem, the problem might be yours? Nobody apart from you seems to be angry, upset and feeling victimised about AW, well, I can think of one, he got my other negative rep a long time ago.

You do seem to take every disagreement as an attack on you. You are the one who keeps bringing up your publisher as a reason people may disagree with you. This is a writers board, you post opinions, people respond with theirs. You cannot dictate how they should respond or that they must agree with you or else, you are not a mod here.

Yes, there is a lot of attitude on this thread and a whole lot of it is coming from you.

Afinerosesheis said:

Many of you state that you would encourage PA authors to join the ranks here at AW and learn the ropes, but if this is the attitude that you are going to take with them when they voice their thoughts then it is all for naught.


They take enough abuse over on that board, they do not need it when they come here.

Try a new approach, this one doesn't work.

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Now I just don't think this is true. We do treat PA authors with respect. We encourage them to write another book, to find agents, we welcome them to conversations and take their writing experiences as seriously as any other aspiring writers, and their writing advice too.
BUT you never said this was about PA. To be honest with you, I don't know who here is/was a PA author. I don't have a clue. If you don't tell me it's about PA I won't recognize it as such. I am not aware of the sensitivities PA authors may have, though I know who PA is and what they do to writers, there is a mentality/sensitivity that I don't understand because of the way PA treats/abuses their victims and what their victims have gone through.
Regarding this post, I would react this way to anyone who posted it. It isn't because you are PA. It's because of the context you didn't explain, and I don't consider PA authors different than any other aspiring writer (just tricked by a scam company).
What you are saying is to treat PA authors differently, more gently because of what they've gone through. Isn't that different than welcoming them and treating them equally? Unless you wear "Former PA" badge, how do I know to treat you "more gently" or any PA victim for that matter. How do I know issues that you bring up are directly related to PA trauma? I don't. We treat people equally here. If you expect to be treated gently because of how you were victimized, you have to tell me you are such a victim or I won't know and I'll treat your posts like I treat anyone else's. The reaction I gave to this thread had absolutely nothing to do with anything PA and everything to do with misunderstanding the context of "what writers deserve"

I've read this thread through a few times and it was a little confusing - I also had the assumption it dealt with the way PA treats their authors and, as most (if not all) of us know, they aren't a big believer in courtesy or respect in any way, shape or form.

That said, I also know Rose has joined us from PA - but maybe not everyone here knows as well. I can understand the confusion - since it could be construed as "I write, therefore I am", but I don't think that's the case here.

Remember, though some of those items seem perfectly normal in publishing, for PA authors, they don't exist. So yes, anyone who has been offered a contract to have their work published (by a "traditional" publisher as opposed to vanity) having an editor is a no-brainer. Not having to buy your own books to resell is also a no-brainer. Not being attacked for asking a question, or having your book priced competitively, or any of that should be no-brainers as well. In PA-land, though, that's not the case. Pop over to the PAMB boards and see. If PA itself doesn't attack, there are plenty of loyalists over there to do it for them.

The word "respect" seems to get everyone's hackles up and I think it boils down to just what has been said earlier - treating each other with common courtesy. Yes, respect should be earned, but common courtesy should be offered, regardless.

JMHO, FWIW

That's the thing Jersey, I didn't know she came from PA. I didn't know it was about PA. :shrugs:
I didn't know I was supposed to react differently based on a context I wasn't made aware of.

Many of you state that you would encourage PA authors to join the ranks here at AW and learn the ropes, but if this is the attitude that you are going to take with them when they voice their thoughts then it is all for naught.


They take enough abuse over on that board, they do not need it when they come here.

Try a new approach, this one doesn't work.

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AW is not a publisher of any sort. Many people here are published authors, in one form or another, but many--if not most of us--are people trying to become published authors.

Most of us will probably fail, in that regard.

I have a book that was published via a vanity publisher. I don't think it means I'm a published author. Sure, I worked hard at it and sure, I think it worthy. But that's just me. I deserve nothing like the things you listed for that book or any others that I write.

The problem here is that your initial post suggests that you are a published author. If PA is your publisher, I would question that. Sorry. No offence is intended, but that is simply the way it is, for most people in the legitimate publishing world.

AW provides many helpful tools for getting into that world.

I can easily see how it could be misconstrued - I know because I haunt the PA forums (I need to get out more). It did need to be clarified that's why I read through it a few times, it was tough to look at it as if I didn't know where Rose had come from.

For the record, I'm still (technically) a PA author, and I think y'all have treated me politely and agreed or disagreed with my posts as per your individual opinions.

I don't personally think that all writers are "due" respect. I think individuals respect others based on their actions. I also don't think all "published" authors are good, or that their writing efforts deserve respect either. But these are my opinions, and if someone doesn't agree that's fine. I'm not trying to convince anyone else, and I'm not trying to make friends with everyone on the board. I'm merely stating what I believe.

Most writers (good or bad) have relatively huge egos. We believe that what we write is worthy of everyone's attention. That's probably NOT the case. And along with that sometimes those egos are also fragile, and don't like to hear the truth.

There are good writers published by PA, there are probably a couple of great ones, and there are also others who don't meet the criteria or have the skill to be published anywhere else.

But all of us here are adults, well most of the time I am. I know that being a writer is hard work. Being successful is even harder. In writing, as in any other field, NOBODY owes me a break; I have to earn it and earn the respect of my peers.

robeiae said:

The problem here is that your initial post suggests that you are a published author. If PA is your publisher, I would question that. Sorry. No offence is intended, but that is simply the way it is, for most people in the legitimate publishing world.

AW provides many helpful tools for getting into that world.

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I have to agree - I'm rather tired of the politically-correct mindset that somehow we're "ALL WINNERS!" because we finished the race, nevermind where we crossed the finish line.

You can be published in many ways - but I see PA authors as "printed" more than "published". Sorry, that's just because I see PA as having no standards and basically nothing more than another version of AuthorHouse or Xlibris. There are no standards other than getting in line and handing over your money.

*shrugs*

All we are suggesting is that context needed to be present. That's all. Now it's in context. Now it's in the proper forum for the people who will get it and need it to see. Fantastic. We didn't know that before. We had no way of knowing the intended audience was other PA authors coming here.
sorry for the issues, afinerose...not intentional, we just didn't get where you were coming from.
Trish