The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

ZaZ · Apr 13, 2005

Off topic wait, on topic

You're sittin' there. I can feel it.

"Where is that rascal Zaz?"

I'm outside raking the rock garden, bustin' out the chainsaw, powerwashin' the house, chattin' up the mailman and scaring passing neighborhood walkers and their children.

"JeeZis Mary, did you see that hairy guy with the huge rake?"

So I sat in the Minnesota sun, sippin' on a bitter pill - Grapefruit Juice, Brandy, shot of Mello Yello for fun - listening to double shot Wednesdays on the only non-Triad/ClearChannel monster radio station. I stopped, made another drink.

Grabbed the bag of weed and feed and fertilized the front yard. Took a leak in the back. Pounded the miracle gro tree and shrub fertilizer stakes, piled the leaves and limbs and proceeded to light the mutha up.

Puff. Puff. "Holy Moly I feel better." To the lawn chairs!

*Dial tone*
*Ring*

"Drinking Buddy! Six packs, stat!"
Well, he's on his way. I better get going.

Happy trolling! Hope you catch something.

Inappropriate, enticing, borderline pleasurable but clearly disturbing hugs,
ZaZ

Ed Williams · Apr 13, 2005

Folks, we are getting the same....

....verbiage over and over, classic troll behavior, in fact, very similiar behavior to another one I remember from not too long ago. No need to keep feeding, folks, think about it. No one comes into an anti-PA thread to push books, what's being pushed here is disruption of this thread. Pure and simple. Don't contribute to it....

Sheryl Nantus · Apr 13, 2005

gena140 said:
I don't care how anyone calls it and have yet to have issue with anyone's specific complaint.

I said I was not lied to or decieved and that is the truth.

Everyone posted their TRUTH about how they were treated now I'm posted MY TRUTH about how I was treated.

Shouldn't there be a place here for both sides?

I mean even if I'm the only person is the history of the world to be satisfied with PA shouldn't I be able to say so??

you won't be in six months.

come on back when you get that first fat royalty check or the bills for your "free" promotions and we'll chat.

gena140 · Apr 13, 2005

NancyMehl said:
Hmmmm. Unless you have taken control of this board from Jenna, I think she'll decide if you'll be back "tomorra."

Now, I'm going to go click my a** while I still have the ability. Anyone want to join in???

*smooches*

Nancy

I don't think I've done anything to be banned for but I said nothing about taking control.

But I will return tomorra...and see if Jenna loves me as much as you do.

*smooches*

victoriastrauss · Apr 13, 2005

gena140 said:
My lawyer also included in it that I have the option to re-sell my work to another publisher if that publisher is willing to meet PA's price for my manuscript.

Whoa. Fire your lawyer, hon. He's not really up on the publishing biz.

(PA was very happy to let you include that clause, because they know it ain't gonna happen. Apart from any other issues, you're going to have to look long and hard before you'll find a publisher who's willing to pay another publisher a kill fee to acquire a book.)

- Victoria

Sassenach · Apr 13, 2005

Gena:

Just "cus" someone clicks on a link doesn't mean they're going to buy you're book. I'm surprised one of your "connections" hasn't mentioned that.

Your website bio says:

[size=-1] She has a strong faith in God and a love for her family, her friends, and her church.

[/size]You're not acting like, but rude and sarcastic. Look, maybe you'll be the PA author who becomes fabulously successful. It could happen.

Good luck to you. Believe it or not, the people here want all writers to succeed--it's scamming publishers we abhor. Come back in three months and tell us how it worked out.
[size=-1]
[/size]
[size=-1]

[/size]

M. Story · Apr 13, 2005

NancyMehl said:
Hmmmm. Unless you have taken control of this board from Jenna, I think she'll decide if you'll be back "tomorra."

Now, I'm going to go click my a** while I still have the ability. Anyone want to join in???

*smooches*

Nancy

-------------------
Nancy,

Great post!

tab · Apr 13, 2005

Ed Williams said:
....verbiage over and over, classic troll behavior, in fact, very similiar behavior to another one I remember from not too long ago. No need to keep feeding, folks, think about it. No one comes into an anti-PA thread to push books, what's being pushed here is disruption of this thread. Pure and simple. Don't contribute to it....

Argh, sorry, but she seems so sincere.

HConn · Apr 13, 2005

Gena, that's a very purple cover.

Also, I suspect you would have gotten a lot of traffic to your site without the jeering or the LOLing at your "manipulative powers." Posts that brag about how a person has tricked people into doing something are a hallmark of trolls.

Here's the thing: Your cover is not that good. If you had gone with lulu.com instead of PA, you would not have been saddled with that cover, you would have set your own cover price and you would have retained the rights to your own work.

I have heard several stories about African-American writers who had to self-publish their books, and did so successfully, because genuine publishers were not serving that market. The self-published black writers had no other choice.

However, I'd heard that publishers were now targeting that part of the readership. Eric Jerome Dickey is now published by Dutton Books. Kimberla Lawson Roby publishes with William Morrow.

Did you submit to those publishers? Were you afraid they'd change your book?

I hope you stick around and I hope things turn out well for you, but you should understand that PA's business model can't accomodate a book that sells well. They aren't set up to deal with a book with a large readership.

DreamWeaver · Apr 13, 2005

AnneMarble said:
Off the top of my head... Jenna Glatner, James Macdonald, Victoria Strauss, Ann Crispin, Sue Grable, Keltora, Dave Kuzminski, Diana Hignutt, Ed Williams...

And I have right here, in my hand as we speak, an ARC of Ann Crispin's latest book, which lists the publisher as *Eos, an imprint of HarperCollins Publishers, Inc.*.

OT: I won it! I won the *Storms of Destiny* ARC name-that-inspiration contest! My encyclopedic knowledge of classic rock finally paid off!!!

Sheryl Nantus · Apr 13, 2005

victoriastrauss said:
Whoa. Fire your lawyer, hon. He's not really up on the publishing biz.

(PA was very happy to let you include that clause, because they know it ain't gonna happen. Apart from any other issues, you're going to have to look long and hard before you'll find a publisher who's willing to pay another publisher a kill fee to acquire a book.)

- Victoria

actually, Victoria - is there a record of that EVER happening with ANY book?

I know it sure hasn't happened with a PublishAmerica book...

and yes, get a new lawyer. One that may actually be IN the biz.

AnneMarble · Apr 13, 2005

gena140 said:
The thing is we start out at the bottom of most of the successful ones Eric Jerome Dickey, Kimberla Lawson Roby, and Zane had to start out self promoting and spending thousands of dollars.

Just a little intermission... All writers should take note of this.

Not all promotional techniques that authors use work.

I got spam from a company that had been hired by one of the authors in the list of authors above, promoting a theatrical project. That made me think a little less of him as a writer. Also, I Googled the link in the spam and learned that other people had received the message and were reporting the author and spamvertised links to the appropriate ISPs. It's likely this author's message was going to thousands of people who didn't want to read that book at all and certainly weren't about to start now.

The thing is, this author doesn't have to spam. I had heard of this author years before I got that unsolicited e-mail because the author had books published by a legitimate publisher. I had seen those books in my Borders. I had even read glowing reviews of some of that authors' books on likesbooks.com. By writing great books that real publishers wanted, this author had jumped to the head of the pack. But by spamming, that author may have taken a step back by putting his/her name out there in a negative light.

I'm sure the author didn't think of it as spamming. The author may even have hired the company without realizing that they using spamming techniques. But it's something all authors should keep in mind.

gena140 · Apr 13, 2005

Sheryl Nantus said:
you won't be in six months.

come on back when you get that first fat royalty check or the bills for your "free" promotions and we'll chat.

Are you a fortune teller too?

Oh please oh please tell me what the lotto numbers are for tonight???

I won't chat with you because you are close minded. I respect whatever beef you have with PA as I've told everyone here.

I'm sorry that they wronged you.

But I refuse to chat with someone who refuses to accept the fact that their experience could possibly not be the ONLY EXPERIENCE.

I'm not looking for a fat royalty check because I know better. And I don't expect FREE promotion because I know better than that too.

But I won't go away...and I'll chat with people who are willing to see there are two sides to every coin.

I sincerely don't believe that is you.

Kevin Yarbrough · Apr 13, 2005

gena140 said:
I'm not a troll.

But I've been treated like one from the first post because you want to bash PA.

I'm not going anywhere...I'll be right here everyday to post and give my opinion on PA and anything else I see fit.

If that doesn't fit your game plan...tough...but I have just as might RIGHT to feel the way I do about PA as you do to feel the way you do.

The difference is...I respect that you may not be completely satisfied with them but you have no respect for me...

I've found when people refuse to respect you when they've been given respect it's because they lack SELF RESPECT and unwilling to admit it.

See ya tomorra sweetie.

*smooches*

Didn't hit your website, didn't feel a need to. If you can make PA work for you, more power to ya. If you want to make money by re-selling your bought books, more power to ya, hope you make as much money as you can.

But my beef with PA is this.

I showed them respect. Respect in the form of a $500 check when my book came out. I sold them all. I respected them on their boards, even spent my times, as well as others, in showing them how to start up a book club that was geared towards their authors. We had it all worked out for them, what did I get? Not an email saying anything, even though I heard from someone who worked there that they were thinking about it. I stood up for them when they were bashed. Stood up for the authors when they were bashed. I stood up for a friend who was being bashed on the PA boards by none other than a PA employee in disguise. What di that respect get me? Banned.

I heard that PA would accept anything they received. I didn't want to belive it, that would mean my book was not something unique. I copied thirty pages over and over and over and over, sent it in, got accepted, told people what I found, and then the offer was taken away.

After getting THEIR respect, respect being the folowing: the lies about my book being good enough, them conning me into signing with the lies they had on their website at the time, them cashing my $500 check for something that cost them less than $70 to print, their banning me from their board and if that isn't bad enough they also sent a letter to the FBI and my local police station in an attempt to get me arrested.

Nice respect there from them.

I hope you do well. If you can get PA to work for you then I'm glad, but a lot of people went to them thinking that they were a real publisher. If the model works for you, use it, but it doesn't work for everyone.

Renee · Apr 13, 2005

gena140 said:
But I haven't been wronged. For what I wanted...I got what I expected

Yeah haven't we all said that! LOL..seriously I said that too until I saw the truth about PA.

But I do have to say if you don't like people talking bad about PA, then perhaps you are in the wrong AW thread.

'Cause PA will be talked bad about here. Why? Because they deserve it. Plain and simple.

gena140 · Apr 13, 2005

victoriastrauss said:
Whoa. Fire your lawyer, hon. He's not really up on the publishing biz.

(PA was very happy to let you include that clause, because they know it ain't gonna happen. Apart from any other issues, you're going to have to look long and hard before you'll find a publisher who's willing to pay another publisher a kill fee to acquire a book.)

- Victoria

They don't have to buy it, but my point is it can be done.

My goal isn't for them to buy it anyway. I intend to own my own plates in 7 years.

I was only pointing out that contracts are negotiable and nobody has to sign a contract that doesn't say what they want/need it to say.

My lawyer is very reputable and I have no intention of firing her.

Christine N. · Apr 13, 2005

gena140 said:
Success is defined by signing a contract for my 2nd book with a large publisher because I've proven I can promote myself.

But that's not what large publishers are looking for. Now, I'm just a humble small press author, I'm sure Jim and Jenna are more equiped to say this, but... publishers are looking for books that will sell. All they want from the authors are more good books. A little promotion. But mostly more good books.
It's a good goal, but not for the reasons you specify.

I'm sure it doesn't mean the same to you.

Acutally, I would love a contract with a big fat advance from a big publisher. And I'm working to get there. With a legitmate company. Again, others can verify this, but some agents and publishers do not see a PA credit as a valid writing credit. This is the truth.

You have four more books written? Get them critiqued, clean up up pretty, and send them out. I think (it's been a while) but there are more than a few agents out there who deal with African American authors. Darn, where's Shawn? Her agent deals with minority authors, I think. Oh wait, her agent is Andy. Mr. Zack runs a thread down from this one.. check the "Ask the Agent" thread. I can't remember his site name right now.

I know the pitfalls...and the risks...and I'm willing ]to take them.

I am glad you are willing to be accountable. More than your publisher is willing to do. This is my own, honest assessment of your situation, nothing more.

Susan Gable · Apr 13, 2005

gena140 said:
Eric Jerome Dickey
Kimberla Lawson Roby
Zane
All millionaires...all began with self publishing.
Zane owns her own publishing company Strebor publishers.
BLACK authors have to take a different approach which is why I chose PA.

Began with self-publishing. That doesn't say to me that they stayed with self-publishing. So, I'm thinking they didn't make their millions simply off sales of their self-published books. Owning a publishing company isn't the same thing.

And Zane has a very specialized niche, one that is seeming to open doors in some non-traditional publishing areas. Ellora's Cave is the first RWA-recognized epublisher (they also do trade pbs) and the reason they succeeded where others had failed was their specialized niche - erotica. (like Zane) So, the saying sex sells does have some merit.

As for black authors who've done it "the regular way," may I introduce you to Kayla Perrin and Shirley Hailstock (former RWA President), who are the two ladies I can think of off the top of my head. I'm lousy with names and many of my other books are packed away in boxes from our latest moves. Oh, wait. Will you accept a half-black writer? Mia Zachary, who's having great success with Harlequin Blaze. But there are others. BET actually has it's own publishing company these days. Ethnic romances are BIG right now, and publishers are looking for them.

But since you don't want your golden words touched by an editor...I guess that will keep you from ever selling to one of the big publishers.

You proudly say that you're arrogant. Arrogance is not a popular trait in best-selling authors. Behaving arrogantly in a public forum like this is not a way to win readers and influence people.

Susan G.

Richard · Apr 13, 2005

My goal isn't for them to buy it anyway. I intend to own my own plates in 7 years.

I have no idea what you're talking about, and no longer care. Anyone for tic-tac-toe?

Gravity · Apr 13, 2005

gena140 said:
Who am I other than Gena Garrison??

And I said in my first post...some people had legitimate complaints.

So obviously if you can't READ...your WRITING skill would come into question as well?

Now exactly WHO DO YOU THINK I AM?

And actually this link was given to me by an PA author whom I discussed OTHER PUBLISHERS with.

Anger is a wasted emotion on me.

Trust.

I dunno....I think you're none other than our old buddy Shemp, who got himself reincarnated as an unhinged woman...Weird, huh?

T42 · Apr 13, 2005

Jeff said:
Gena wrote:

No hon, you were called a troll because your behaviour perfectly fit the stereotype of one (read the link provided). You came here and insulted some fine people ("READ WHAT I WROTE" instead of "Maybe you misunderstood me?"), tossed around invective indiscriminately (see: "You (we all) want to bash PA" above) without regard to the facts and basically acted like a 14 year old net kid in some game-room flame war (see: your use of LOLOLOLOLOLOL! "sweetie", 'thanks for clicking on my site', et al.).

You came to get a reaction from us. You came with guns blazing knowing what you were doing (see: you initial armor comment). Unfortunately, you misunderstood and underestimated the people here and it just made you look a little...

...well, foolish.

You hit the nail with the hammer! This made my motherly-grandmotherly instincts pop right out of my neck and want to bend her over my knee and give her a good spanking for being so disrespectful! Now, with that said...I don't want to see any PA author hurt including myself and I don't see PA changing so for me, the only answer is to put them out of business so a lot more people don't get hurt. As for my contract, I will continue the fight to get it back. If Pa wants to sit on my book for seven years then so be it. That gives me more time to make their life miserable.

astonwest · Apr 13, 2005

Darn, I miss so much while at work...

gena140 said:
So far I've paid PA the grand total of

O friggin dollars.

Then...

gena140 said:
I actually have both my author copies and ordered copies...

You were able to order copies without paying for them? Would love to hear the secret to that one...

As well as to how you were able to snag ordered copies before the release date of your book (May 14)...

gena140 said:
Secondly the books I bought I sell and make my money back. It's called an investment.

I certainly hope you've done the financials behind said investment. In order to make any profit off of these books (don't forget to add shipping, and take into consideration unsold (and unreturnable) copies), you'll have to order enough to get a decent discount percentage...and that gets to be a rather risky venture.

gena140 said:
Actually UPS does ALL OF THAT. I know cus I used to do it, and it's one of the reasons I'm no longer there. As a PA insider you see things that other's don't the same as as a UPS insider I saw things customer's didn't.

You work (or worked) for PA?
That would be an interesting story to hear...

gena140 said:
Since you have your book back...it's probably of no use...and maybe the difference is that I'm an African American author and black book stores want to stock African American authors regardless of the publisher...however I have a list of stores that have accepted MY BOOK...I'd be willing to share with ANYONE who is interested.

Actually, I had my book stocked in a number of stores as well...but being as how it was only on a local level, and not national, the mass reading public wasn't going to run across it randomly. And with the price set $5 above similarly-sized books, people weren't going to recommend it to their friends.

Wish you the best, but as has been alluded to, you'll have quite the uphill battle before you...

Sheryl Nantus · Apr 13, 2005

no matter how well you promote yourself you'll still be tarred with the PA brush - that of unedited, low quality work (you said it yourself) slapped together and tossed out there.

why do you think no one can get a decent review? Not because their writing is substandard, but because of the printer.

your writing may be magnificent, but with PA on the spine (or spline, as they like to say on the PA boards) you've got little chance of getting anyone interested in it, much less another publisher.

PA's reputation preceeds you, and it ain't good.

HConn · Apr 13, 2005

gena140 said:
But I refuse to chat with someone who refuses to accept the fact that their experience could possibly not be the ONLY EXPERIENCE.

Do you know how many times we've heard this same song?

gena140 · Apr 13, 2005

HConn said:
Gena, that's a very purple cover.

Also, I suspect you would have gotten a lot of traffic to your site without the jeering or the LOLing at your "manipulative powers." Posts that brag about how a person has tricked people into doing something are a hallmark of trolls.

Here's the thing: Your cover is not that good. If you had gone with lulu.com instead of PA, you would not have been saddled with that cover, you would have set your own cover price and you would have retained the rights to your own work.

I have heard several stories about African-American writers who had to self-publish their books, and did so successfully, because genuine publishers were not serving that market. The self-published black writers had no other choice.

However, I'd heard that publishers were now targeting that part of the readership. Eric Jerome Dickey is now published by Dutton Books. Kimberla Lawson Roby publishes with William Morrow.

Did you submit to those publishers? Were you afraid they'd change your book?

I hope you stick around and I hope things turn out well for you, but you should understand that PA's business model can't accomodate a book that sells well. They aren't set up to deal with a book with a large readership.

What you've heard and what is real are 2 different things. Kimberla Lawson Roby sold 10,000 self published copies in less than 6 months and that's the ONLY REASON she signed with William Morrow. She told me that herself. She also told me that 1/2 way through that she was approached by an agent, and several other publisher's.

Her books in my opinion are not that good...but her ability to market herself is.

It wasn't just a matter of that market being targeted. Those publisher respected her ability to self promote herself enough to make those kinds of sales.

I knew they would make changes to my book, IF they accepted it, and IF they like the agent I chose. I know how difficult it is to be accepted by a publisher. I respect Kimberla and Eric's writing and I certainly know if neither of them could be accepted as is...I didn't have that power either.

So from them I took the lesson of...get your name out there by hustling your *** off. PA is not gonna do it for me. I know that and I don't expect it.

And I'm going to have to spend some money, but not as much as if I'd chosen Lulu or any other of those companies that I researched.

PA worked for ME...and my goal. I realize that I have to do 100% of the work from this point and I have no issues with that.

I'm confused why so many have a hard time accepting that.

The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

Holding out for a Superhero...

Writer Beware Goddess

5 W's & an H

Pollyanna with n attitude

Dipsomaniac on the floor!

Whore for genre

Shakespearean Fool

Holding out for a Superhero...

Nefarious Ghost Fan

Will write for peace of mind

haz a shiny new book cover

Dreamer of dreams, teller of tales

13th Triskaidekaphobe

Seen 'em come, seen 'em go

Herb Lady

2 WIP? A glutton for punishment

Holding out for a Superhero...

Whore for genre