The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

gena140 · Apr 13, 2005

Literary Lola said:
Why? People love good writing, even if the author is green and orange and hails from the outer reaches of Mars.

That's a good question, but reality is reality.

I mean why did someone who writes as well as Eric Jerome Dickey not get picked up by a big house on his first book.

Or Michael Baisden

Or Marcus Majors.

Very few of the big name black authors were picked up.

It's just the way it is.

Sassenach · Apr 13, 2005

Thanks nice...a celeb [or one of his minions] accepting an unsolicited gift doesn't mean a thing.

If he went on stage or TV and started talking about Gena Garrison's book...well, that would be nice.

ResearchGuy · Apr 13, 2005

gena140 said:
...I don't feel my book is overpriced, and apprently they don't either since they raised the price....

The issue is not whether it is overpriced, or underpriced, or right-priced. It is underdiscounted to the bookseller. Hence, they have to tack on a surcharge to make their margin.

--Ken

Kevin Yarbrough · Apr 13, 2005

gena140 said:
That's why I began by saying I was confused by it because it wasn't concealed from me. It was in my contract. I've spoken to other PA authors who say it was in their contract. I assume it's in everyone's contract but perhaps it isn't.

I dug because I would not sign with anyone without reading both the positive and negative things said about them because I realize they all hold some validity.

I don't think it's honorable to decieve anyone for any reason.

My advise (which was taken as me being arrogant) was to read the contract, and have a lawyer take a look at the contract, and negotiate the contract. Which is what I did.

Now many here believe my lawyer is not repuatable and should be fired, but nothing was hidden from me.

I accepted those consequences, and am wondering how/why they were hidden from others.

Gena, a lot of us PA authors here signed contracts years ago before there was any bad news about PA on the net and way before they changed the content of their website.

I looked for bad things about PA before I signed with them, there wasn't any.

Susan Gable · Apr 13, 2005

gena140 said:
I haven't disputed anything any of them have said either.

But just because you can't fly, doesn't mean I won't put on wings and try it. I don't let anyone's failure or success define me. I DEFINE ME.

Gena! Now here I am, trying to take you seriously, and you say something like this. If you were to strap on wings and try it, you know what that basically makes you? Stipid. (Yes, I spelled it correctly, and yes, it means stupid.) As my mother would say, "If she jumped off a bridge, would you try it too?" <G>

Here's another way to look at it: :Headbang:

You are not learning the lessons that these people have to teach you. Some of those lessons are:

The PA system is designed against you. You will order books that may not arrive. They will add errors to your book. The name itself is a strike against you. (The website that accepted your book when not accepting your self-pubbed friend probably hasn't figured out what PA is yet. A writers' organization I belong to used to count PA books as making a writer "published." They don't do that anymore, not since all the evidence about PA has come out.) Booksellers will turn their noses up at you.

When we do not learn from history (the history of these PA authors here), we are destined to repeat the same mistakes.

You are not in a position at the moment to firmly shore up your position, either. Come back after the book has been released, after you've gotten your first royalty check. We might believe you've had a "positive PA experience" more at that point.

gena140 said:
I live in a predominantly white area and only the MAJOR black authors are carried in ANY BOOKSTORE. I'd never get in there as an unknown even if Simon and Schuster were my publishers. I wouldn't even try.

?

Ummmm....okay, so you would try to fly but you wouldn't try to get your book into the local bookstores even with Simon and Shuster as your publisher??? Makes no sense to me. What makes you think, then, that will be any different if you sign your second book contract with a bigwig publisher?

Also, S&S have SELLERS who would do that for you, so you don't have to worry about it

If you decide to try to fly, I suggest not flying too closely to the sun.

Susan G.

CaoPaux · Apr 13, 2005

gena140 said:
I don't recall saying it was. I'm only saying that I don't feel my book is overpriced, and apprently they don't either since they raised the price.

Actually I wish they had not, because it discourages sales, and I have told people NOT to purchase it from them.

Booksamillion doesn’t care what the price of your book is, or how it affects your sales, because they have no inventory they need to move. They raised the price to maintain their profit margin: to compensate for the additional expense of Ingram’s realigned distribution system.

Patricia · Apr 13, 2005

Good afternoon/Evening, everyone.
I like what someone said way back up there somewhere, I mean way back up there.... tic... tic... tic... I hear that little doom clock ticking for PA.

**Yawn... interesting reading. Contradictions, galore. Seems someone cannot make up their mind if they like PA or not. That duel personality war I was speaking of a few days ago. Remember gang?

Oprah? I doubt it.

Plates --- no way.

Buy back rights -- of course, for thousands of dollars, if you have already spent all your money buying your own books.

Troll? Who knows? I rather think a crying, regretful person, trying to justify actions and poor judgment. At any rate, said person knows we are right and I go with the vote that we vacate the discussion and move on to more interesting things.

Marlene, welcome!

Mem, thanks for info hon, you deserve a medal of honor for all your help. I've got the coffee, if you got the brownies -- make mine unleaded, please.

Renee · Apr 13, 2005

gena140 said:
But my experience has been different and I feel that with the right information more authors experiences can be different.

Gena,

No, your experience cannot be different than those that have published unsuccessfully with PA previous to you. The reason? Because, PimpAmerica accepts anything that is sent to them, but that's not the point I'm trying to make here. But, because of that PA makes sure that their authors have a dead-end AFTER they have achieved the many roadblocks that PimpAmerica sets up for their authors. It happens to the best of the best from PA - I've seen it! You'll see it too.

If you are a serious writer and you want to find a decent publisher that lurks somewhere out in the distance, my advice is do not submit anything else to PimpAmerica. You'll thank me later. That's the best advice I can give you and I know from experience, that there is nothing that I can say to you that will make you change your views of PA. And that's the way it should be. YOU have to see the truth about PA and the publishing industry for yourself. And you will oneday. You obviously care about your writing or something or you wouldn't be here defending yourself. And I wish you the best of luck. Do listen to what the good folks of AW have to say. Most, if not all mean well and have no personal stakes in PA in any way. They simply are like me and do not like to see writers cheated, lied to, and manipulated by a printer that calls themselves a traditional publisher.

gena140 · Apr 13, 2005

Julianne said:
Oh, and one other thing, Gena...Maybe this is just my ignorance, but I couldn't tell you if a lot of authors I read are black or white or Hispanic or whatever. To be honest, many books don't even have photos of the authors.

I could be really dense :Smack: but why does being black makes a difference? Just curious, not trying to challenge your assertion that it does.

It's a understandable question.

Some people only read Black authors. There are HUNDREDS of book clubs out there dedicated to ONLY black authors and that's how they are marketed.

It's a thing of supporting our own. PA doesn't have many African American authors but I've found that I'm accepted in alot of places simply by being African American and people wanting to "support their own" and could care less about PA.

Also for that reason many have never heard of PA because the bulk of PA's writers would not approach the same black bookstore in the back of the mall that I would approach.

They are trying to get in Barnes and Noble while I'm tryin to get into Grits.

However the black reader, buys an HUGE amount of books each year.

DreamWeaver · Apr 13, 2005

gena140 said:
Now many here believe my lawyer is not repuatable and should be fired, but nothing was hidden from me.

I think it was more folks wondering if your lawyer specializes in publishing. A perfectly reputable and competent lawyer in one area, say corporate law or family law, might not know all the ins and outs in a different area, such as publishing. It is possible to have more than one lawyer: your current one whom you obviously like, and a second one just to consult on the publishing questions.

Good luck with your book.

Julianne · Apr 13, 2005

gena140 said:
That's why I began by saying I was confused by it because it wasn't concealed from me. It was in my contract.

Your contract with PA says that it is nearly impossible to get bookstores to shelve PA books and that PA does not allow returns?

The contract says that PA will do no promotion or promotion that is essentially worthless (according to far more experienced authors than me

) ? Did PA ever explain the consequences of no promotion, or does PA lead authors to believe that getting NO SUPPORT from a publisher is SOP for first-time authors? That they can't do any better elsewhere?

**inquiring minds want to know***

**Ok, we already know the answers...**

lindylou45 · Apr 13, 2005

WhisperingBard said:
Ed and Linda,
As promised, this one's for you:
http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=157794&postcount=167

Got it and absolutely love it! Good luck to you! I'll post it on the site shortly.

lindylou45 · Apr 13, 2005

M. Story said:
Golly Jeepers, how could I top that??? I'm out of the competition before I even got into it.

Great job, Bard! I loved your poem.

Marlene--a True Story

Come on now, don't be afraid. Give it a try! You just might win.

gena140 · Apr 13, 2005

Susan Gable said:
Gena! Now here I am, trying to take you seriously, and you say something like this. If you were to strap on wings and try it, you know what that basically makes you? Stipid. (Yes, I spelled it correctly, and yes, it means stupid.) As my mother would say, "If she jumped off a bridge, would you try it too?" <G>

Here's another way to look at it:

You are not learning the lessons that these people have to teach you. Some of those lessons are:

The PA system is designed against you. You will order books that may not arrive. They will add errors to your book. The name itself is a strike against you. (The website that accepted your book when not accepting your self-pubbed friend probably hasn't figured out what PA is yet. A writers' organization I belong to used to count PA books as making a writer "published." They don't do that anymore, not since all the evidence about PA has come out.) Booksellers will turn their noses up at you.

When we do not learn from history (the history of these PA authors here), we are destined to repeat the same mistakes.

You are not in a position at the moment to firmly shore up your position, either. Come back after the book has been released, after you've gotten your first royalty check. We might believe you've had a "positive PA experience" more at that point.

Ummmm....okay, so you would try to fly but you wouldn't try to get your book into the local bookstores even with Simon and Shuster as your publisher??? Makes no sense to me. What makes you think, then, that will be any different if you sign your second book contract with a bigwig publisher?

Also, S&S have SELLERS who would do that for you, so you don't have to worry about it

If you decide to try to fly, I suggest not flying too closely to the sun.

Susan G.

I wasn't LITERALLY speaking of flying Susan. *sigh*

Read the post before this regarding the book sellers I am looking at and the ones YOU are looking at. I would never approach the Barnes & Nobles in my mall cus they don't stock Terri McMillan. 3 of her books are movies but she's still a black author and doesn't get shelf space.

Black books are a totally different market, one I'm sure you don't understand at all. They don't care about PA.

They were the FIRST to support self published authors which is why alot of black authors self publish. They know it can work for them alot better than submitting over and over as J K Rowlands did.

I'm not stupid and I don't appreciate being called such. I respectfully ask you to please not address me at all if that's your opinion of me.

It will eliminate any confusion, misunderstandings, or arguments.

ResearchGuy · Apr 13, 2005

gena140 said:
That's a good question, but reality is reality.

I mean why did someone who writes as well as Eric Jerome Dickey not get picked up by a big house on his first book.

Or Michael Baisden

Or Marcus Majors.

Very few of the big name black authors were picked up.

It's just the way it is.

How many of the big name white authors were picked up by the major publishers first time out? (Not counting non-writer celebrities like the Clintons who have their books ghosted and ride to sales on their names.)

Nonetheless--I have to agree that writers who are writing to a particular ethnic or lifestyle experience, no matter how good their writing, face a barrier. If that experience focuses on a limited segment of the population, rightly or wrongly market potential will be judged accordingly. Not everyone is going to make a point of seeking out good books that emphasize those viewpoints, and publishers take that into consideration. It would be a better world if everyone did seek more broadly, if everyone understood that the experiences of folks from different backgrounds are of as universal a value as the experiences of folks from their own backgrounds.

Ok, off the soapbox.

Gena, thanks for igniting aerobic discussion. For better or worse, agree or disagree, you have really gotten the fingers to flying on the keyboards.

--Ken

DaveKuzminski · Apr 13, 2005

victoriastrauss said:
Gena, your posts are rude, strident, and taunting. There are better ways to get your point across.

I'm going to give you a few more hours to settle in, tone down your rhetoric, and stop insulting the people who respond to you. If I don't see an improvement, you're history.

- Victoria

Oh, oh, I know! Shove her and me into the Take It Outside board!

Christine N. · Apr 13, 2005

Sheryl Nantus said:
http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/main/11943.htm

meanwhile, JeanMarie is reading them the riot act!

huzzah to her!

oh, G? She's the exception to the rule and she knows it.

You go Jean Marie! And I suppose that the person who read Diana's book didn't know that it was nominated for a Spectrum award. Even as a PA book And that she did a tone of footwork, and like, Jean Marie, did make a lot of sales. She still hated what PA did. Or didn't do, I should say.

See, for those of us tuning in late, the PA contract has changed since Diana and others signed. It used to convey a sense that their books WERE going to be STOCKED in B&N, not just available for special order. I don't think it reads that way now.

gena140 · Apr 13, 2005

DreamWeaver said:
I think it was more folks wondering if your lawyer specializes in publishing. A perfectly reputable and competent lawyer in one area, say corporate law or family law, might not know all the ins and outs in a different area, such as publishing. It is possible to have more than one lawyer: your current one whom you obviously like, and a second one just to consult on the publishing questions.

Good luck with your book.

My lawyer specializes in CONTRACT law. Contracts are her specialty. Whether it's for a publisher, a record contract (which she also negotiated for me) or a business. The contract is what she specializes in.

Whether or not it's legal, can it be broken, what clauses are misleading, and what questions to ask about verbage that is not immediately understood.

gena140 · Apr 13, 2005

ResearchGuy said:
How many of the big name white authors were picked up by the major publishers first time out? (Not counting non-writer celebrities like the Clintons who have their books ghosted and ride to sales on their names.)

Nonetheless--I have to agree that writers who are writing to a particular ethnic or lifestyle experience, no matter how good their writing, face a barrier. If that experience focuses on a limited segment of the population, rightly or wrongly market potential will be judged accordingly. Not everyone is going to make a point of seeking out good books that emphasize those viewpoints, and publishers take that into consideration. It would be a better world if everyone did seek more broadly, if everyone understood that the experiences of folks from different backgrounds are of as universal a value as the experiences of folks from their own backgrounds.

Ok, off the soapbox.

Gena, thanks for igniting aerobic discussion. For better or worse, agree or disagree, you have really gotten the fingers to flying on the keyboards.

--Ken

Thank you for talking with me and not AT ME. I've enjoyed the exchange.

gena140 · Apr 13, 2005

Julianne said:
Your contract with PA says that it is nearly impossible to get bookstores to shelve PA books and that PA does not allow returns?

The contract says that PA will do no promotion or promotion that is essentially worthless (according to far more experienced authors than me ) ? Did PA ever explain the consequences of no promotion, or does PA lead authors to believe that getting NO SUPPORT from a publisher is SOP for first-time authors? That they can't do any better elsewhere?

**inquiring minds want to know***

**Ok, we already know the answers...**

The contract doesn't state they will put my book in stores. My lawyer explained to me what that meant. So I wasn't expecting it to be on book store shelves.

PA explained to me the return policy before I signed because my lawyer advised me to ask.

PA said they wouldn't promote me and since my other option was self publishing I would have had to promote myself either way. I was willing to do that. They never led me to believe a book that was not promoted would sell. Or that I wasn't worth promoting.

But I believe I can promote myself, and I choose to do that.

ResearchGuy · Apr 13, 2005

gena140 said:
...
Black books are a totally different market...

Browsing (and buying) in Sacramento-area bookstores that focus on Black authors and interests as well as in others that do not so focus certainly supports that view, in my opinion. Fortunately it is not all black and white (play on words intended)--not here, anyway. I would (based on local experience) put on the table a slight edit, to read "...are a substantially different market."

IMHO FWIW.

--Ken

Christine N. · Apr 13, 2005

Kevin Yarbrough said:
"Stand corrected" means you were right. You stand by being correct. At least, that is what I have heard. If I'm wrong, and you are right, then....

I stand corrected.

Sorry Kev, she's right. To "stand corrected" means that she was wrong, and your information corrected her incorrect one.

Julianne · Apr 13, 2005

Gena, do you mean Terry McMillan, author of "Waiting to Exhale" and "How Stella Got Her Groove Back"? I think my local B&N carries those (I'll check and let you know), and I live in a pretty "white" area. Still, I realize that purchasing could vary from store to store.

DreamWeaver · Apr 13, 2005

gena140 said:
[good info, snipped in the interests of brevity]...However the black reader, buys an HUGE amount of books each year.

This is really interesting information--thanks, Gena. You are showing a different dynamic at work, one which I certainly hadn't thought about. I am curious, does Dumas (the elder) sell well, or is he consigned to the ranks of boring old classic authors? I love his books (especially The Three Musketeers) but one doesn't hear much about them nowadays, except for the multiple re-re-remakes of the movies. Of course, his books don't exactly deal with black issues--they're just great fun.

ResearchGuy · Apr 13, 2005

gena140 said:
Thank you for talking with me and not AT ME. I've enjoyed the exchange.

My pleasure, Gena. Some time please visit my website. Who knows, perhaps we have some shared interests along the way in addition to books and publishing.

--Ken

The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

5 W's & an H

Resident Curmudgeon

Will write for peace of mind

Dreamer of dreams, teller of tales

Mostly Harmless

California Dreaming

Shakespearean Fool

The Stooge Slayer

The Stooge Slayer

Resident Curmudgeon

Preditors & Editors

haz a shiny new book cover

Resident Curmudgeon

haz a shiny new book cover

Shakespearean Fool

Resident Curmudgeon