What gets to me about all of this is this sense that the people here at AW actively seek out to destroy good honest work. Aside from the fact that that is simply not true nor remotely evidenced in this thread, it just points to the fact that the defenders who come in here don't do any sort of research or read any other thread in this forum aside from the one that they feel is personally attacking their company of choice.
There was as thread not too long ago about an agent agreement that someone had read where the agent was saying that some costs, such as photocopies etc might be taken out of the client's cheque. The original poster took this as a sign of a scam agent. If we were truly a forum of alarmists, everyone would have responded, "That is horrible! Evil evil agent!!" But because we are a group of extremely well informed individuals from many different areas of the industry, the response was, "Actually such a clause in an agency agreement is normal and not the sign of a scam agent." It would have been far easier to quote the "any agent who charges fees is evil" mantra, but we knew that this is a very typical exception to the rule, and one, that is rarely acted upon despite it being in the contract.
If ANY of the defenders had a good look around they would see that this is a very fair minded forum. And that if any poster here goes overboard they are reprimanded for it.
Allabout - I will try to, as sincerely as possible, say this one more time. When this thread started, Living Waters made it very clear on their website that traditionally published books were still charged fees. Despite you saying otherwise, it was hard for any of us to know what to think when it was there in black and white. Living Waters have since changed that part of the website. That is a good thing. The problem that many people here are still confused about is is there a separate imprint that the traditionally published books are published under? Because if not then how on earth is Living Waters going to establish a reputation as a traditional publisher that has a strict vetting process and looks for quality writing, when half of their books are pay to publish and are printed under the SAME imprint name?
Part of the reason I imagine you are here defending the traditional aspect of Living Waters, aside from just trying to give us the correct facts, is because your book is being published traditionally by them. You are keen to prove, not only to us, but to the general reading public that your book is of quality, and someone chose to publish your book. Surely then, it would be in your best interest to have the book published under a different heading than Living Waters, because otherwise people are going to think you vanity published.
There is a place for vanity publishing and self publishing. We have a sub forum here dedicated to it. While most people here do advocate "traditional" publishing, there are many people here who are self published and know the ropes well. The point is a matter of clarity. To make sure the authors going into any agreement understand what they are getting themselves into. Now that Living Waters have changed their website, things are a bit more clear. What remains unclear yet is how they distinguish between their two different businesses.
Yes some people here respond much more harshly than others to this kind of situation. Some of them have been scammed in the past. Some of them work with scammed authors and are just so tired of seeing authors being hurt. We are all individuals with our own approach to this topic. I am sorry if you have felt personally attacked. I always think it does a great disservice to anyone posting (newbie, or old fogie) when personal attacks come into play because it then negates the actual quality statements being made.
You have accused us of lying, when we have not. You have said you would like to sue us for libel. You have threatened us. We are merely asking questions, some of which you can't answer. The other author who came on here, was very lovely in trying to answer some of my questions and admitted she couldn't answer the one about distinguishing between the two different publishing routes for Living Waters.
In the end no one is going to begrudge you publishing with the publisher of your choice. In fact, I don't think anyone here has any opinion of you as an author one way or another. You came in here as the mouth piece for Living Waters, and so we responded to you as such. Of course you are under no obligation to continue your defense, especially as you are not even a member of the company, but understand that you put yourself in the position you did. You came here. You wrote what you did and then took back several statements. We can only use the information you have provided and the information we have researched from their website. If we are drawing incorrect conclusions, please show us what we are doing wrong, but so far, you have not managed to prove your case.