Five Star Publishing / Five Star Mysteries

Aren't Lulu and Cafe Press PODs?

I'm trying to get away from the POD stigma, as well as the cheesy look of their books. Do Lulu and Cafe Press do high quality offset runs and have the same kinds of promoting capabilities as these types of companies? If you have any info regarding this, I'd be interested to know.

Thanks,

James

Cafepress and Lulu.com are both PODs. They're printers only. They don't pretend to do any selection, editing, or promotion. What comes out the far end is exactly as good as what you put in the front end.

If you want to be edited, printed offset with a substantial run, priced reasonably, placed in bookstores, and promoted -- you'll need a commercial publisher. Which means the entire submit, be rejected, submit somewhere else dance.

TOTALLY CONFUSED ON THIS MARKET!!!

Okay, I sent an email novel query to Alexis Star Productions, addressing it to Scott Havsy. Which redirected me to [email protected] (for spam reason, I think). I got a request for the entire email manuscript from a Mr. Helfers from Tekno Books [email protected] . Mr Helfers said to send in the manuscript and take a look at his attachment, which was Five Star Productions, who publish original sci-fi like mine. My question is, is Helfers an agent who has an agreement with Five Star? Hell, I don't even know who to send the email manuscript to now. I assume it goes to Mr. Helfers, since he is the one who responded to me.

Five Star seems like a whopping big house who has published serious big names in sci-fi, but they admit that their market in primarily the library market in hardcover editions only, but paperback CAN be an option. What the heck is this? Library only? I've never heard of such a thing--no bookstore placement.
What kind of an outfit is this? The advance is $1,000 and the royalties seem to be based on net.

I'm totally confused with this "pass the potato" type response. Has anyone had any dealings with these people?

What does Mr. Halfers have to do with my original sub to the Scott Havsy Agencey? Is somebody refering me to somebody else?

Confused,

Triceratops

I presume you know that Tekno Books is Marty Greenberg's outfit?

James, who is Marty Greenberg? I get a nasty feeling that this is a middleman or bookpackager. Could I be correct here, if he's taking a chunck of money out of the advance (50%) and 20% royalties. Am I in trouble here?

Triceratops

Yes, Marty's a packager.

Things you should know: a) his checks clear, b) he's an expert at exploiting niche and oddball markets, and c) while his definitions of terms like pro rata are consistent within Tekno they aren't a 100% match with everyone else's definitions.

A book with Tekno counts as a genuine publishing credit and some of them have done quite well.

Can someone explain what a packager is?

Thanks, James. I'll actually be going with Five Star Science Fiction and Fastasy, and they have pubbed some very big names--almost too many, which leads me to believe those were hardbound collectible reprints.

Tri

I think a packager is something like a quasi agent, who looks for books representing a publisher's certain line, then takes a kickback from the author or the pub house. In this case, I wouldn't know who I'm responsible to in an editorial fashion--the packager, or the house. I thought it strange that they'd want me to email the whole manuscript, just upon a query letter. I haven't finished editing the first draft because I did not expect a solicitation for anything more than the first three Chapters. I think that guaranteed hardback library sales is a good thing, and can understand that they want good reviews and above average sales to persue a trade or mass market paperback version. I'm wondering why Five Star, being a large house, is lax in the distribution process for paperbacks, or if it is just a precautionary measure on their part.

Tri

triceretops said:

I think a packager is something like a quasi agent, who looks for books representing a publisher's certain line, then takes a kickback from the author or the pub house.

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This isn't quite right. A packager puts together books, or lines of books, for a publisher. A lot of coffee table books, children's series, and how-to books are produced by packagers. The packager handles everything from editing to design to prepress production; often they also hire writers to produce the books. The packager is paid by the publisher; writers are paid by the packager. If you're writing for a packager, there's a good chance you'll have a work-for-hire contract.

Tekno doesn't work quite that way. It doesn't use work-for-hire contracts--authors keep most rights. For payment, Tekno takes half of Five Star's standard advance, plus a percentage of the author's royalties. I believe it also asks for some small percentage if subrights are sold. In return, it takes only basic publication rights--most subrights, including foreign and translation rights, are left with the author.

Five Star markets to the library trade. That's its niche, and pretty much always has been. As a result, there isn't the sales potential that there is for a book that's also sold in bookstores. But Five Star's books get reviewed in professional venues, and as Jim said, they're a professional credit. And I understand that librarians like them. I certainly see a goodly number of Five Star books at my own local library. Given how low the advance is, I imagine many authors earn out.

I'm wondering why Five Star, being a large house, is lax in the distribution process for paperbacks, or if it is just a precautionary measure on their part.

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Because the money in library sales is in hardcovers. Libraries do buy paperbacks, but not as consistently and not in the numbers that they do hardcovers, which are more durable.

- Victoria

Thank you, Victoria and Tri, for the explanation.

triceretops said:

I haven't finished editing the first draft because I did not expect a solicitation for anything more than the first three Chapters.

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If I were you, I'd stop querying until the draft is final.

Thanks, Victoria, for nailing that for me. I was totally confused about what was going on here. Your explantion cleared it up for me. Five Star seems to be a nice way to go--not high dollar, but they have several series in several genres to produce for. Thanks brinkett, I thought I was out-smarting the agents and pub houses, not realizing I would be called on to deliver a final draft manuscript right out of the gate. Never happened before. Hard darts on me, for this miscalculation.

On a second note, if Five Star primarily deals with library sales, how do they sell the rest of the inventory? By internet alone and direct order?

Tri

triceretops said:

On a second note, if Five Star primarily deals with library sales, how do they sell the rest of the inventory? By internet alone and direct order?

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Specialty shops and direct order, and instant-remainders. Do pay attention to who has bookclub rights. SFBC has a lousy royalty but can be a nice deal because they sell a ton of books.

(And ... guys, for first novels, the time to start querying them is after you have a final draft. What do you want to have happen? You want someone to request the whole thing, right? Why bet against yourself?)

For right now, Tri, I'd say be honest and up-front with the editor -- tell him where you are in the process.

I've got a number of short stories in anthologies that were packaged by Tekno, and they've always paid their royalties on time.

Appreciate it, James. I'm really not that far behind in the script--a few tough days will end the polishing process since I've been on it without letup since its completion. But you give sound advice. The trick of the future, will be that I not have to appologize for an incomplete or late submission, wot? This was not the only response--I underestimated myself.

Tri

rejectME said:

If this publisher puts out a novel to libraries and the book becomes popular? Does that mean that it will only be availible at teh local library? Would 5 star have the parent company publish it? I assume they wouldn't want to limit theit sales if there was a demand...

Jerry

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No, they will pretty much sell to anyone, and their books are available through Amazon.com and other retail outlets. Bookstores will stock them or order them if there is sufficient demand.

They only buy the hardcover rights (and sometimes the trade). The author is free to sell all other rights themselves.

If a book becomes popular, it's just more likely to sell through and gain royalties as well, and the author is in a postion to sell reprint rights to mass market after the initial two years.

And I that novel I mentioned I had submitted to them. They bought HOUNDS OF ARDAGH and I am currently going over the editorial changes they suggested.

This is a little off topic but Tina asked, "what can you learn from a 100 word pitch?" Actually, you should be able to distill any book down to one sentence. Read the movie listings in the newspaper or TV Guide to see how it's done. This is a BIGGY in the world of writng romances. All the editors/agents want you to pitch them. It's really, really hard, but it forces you to know what your book is about. Try it! Here's one - and yes, it needs more zing so I'm open to suggestions.

"A house call veterinarian communicates with animals to help a police detective solve a series of crimes."

Sorry if this is a stupid question, CAO, but I'm sort of new - what's SWY?

To answer your question, a house call vet ... comes to your house. I have one for my three Labs and it's wonderful. Appreciate your input.

Proabably meant SYW (Share Your Work) forum.

THANKS!

Definitely Good People

I had a mystery published by FiveStar in December '04 called DANGER-CLOSE and all my experiences with FiveStar have been outstanding. (Especially in the wake of my four mass market paperbacks published through Kensington/Pinnacle) The editors are great. They took my ideas for cover art and improved it. They've kept me in the loop about trade reviews, additional printings, and much more. Yes, the advance is tiny, but the pros outweigh the money (at least I think they do). Excellent production values, superb ARCs, and much more. I'd publish with them again and will if I ever get around to that sequel, heh...