Son of PAMB and its quotes

circlexranch · Sep 4, 2008

Queen of Swords said:
Royalty check time

If I ever get paid for something I write, I might photocopy the check as a memento, but I can't imagine not cashing it. Then again, I don't plan on selling for the kind of sums PA pays out.

I wonder how much of the 'royalty' came from when they purchased copies of their own book during the 'we pay royalties' discount sale.

Just curious . . . .

Marian Perera · Sep 4, 2008

Interesting post on marketing

I don't know if anyone on the PAMB will pay attention to this, but not only is much of it relevant to their situations, it's pretty honest. It's taken from a marketing newsletter, and veteran PA loyalist D. K. Christi introduces it with,

The article below is truly a myth buster about new author expectations that still do not burst the buble but does give some straight answers to often voiced questions.

The article has a great Cautionary Tale about sending books to Oprah, and why she no longer accepts anything from small presses.

...the publisher could not keep up with the orders, nor did they have enough in stock or stocked in a bookstore. The result? A lot of viewers called into the show when they couldn't find the book and Oprah vowed never to feature a small press title again. The challenge here is always availability.

It also touches on the difference between Amazon and a distributor.

If at all possible, get someone to distribute your title. Distribution can be tricky but it's often the one missing piece to a book's success.

Hope it helps the honeymooners.

Marian Perera · Sep 4, 2008

Author suggests working free for PA

The author who wanted to start a do-it-yourself catalog has another idea.

I was wondering if PA could help us out? maybe we need to get info center involved in this discussion.

Look around, please. See how many discussions Infocenter gets involved in.

What if PA made a catalog of all of our books grouped into certain categories novel, children's book, mysteries, etc.etc. just as chronicle does.

Check your contract, please. Is there anything in it about PA being obligated to produce a catalog?

Then, maybe a few of us could be the PA representatives in our region. we already hit the book stores for our own books anyway, this time we will be helping each other out and be armed with a catalog. Not only will the store managers take us more seriously but we could also leave the catalog so that when they run out of stock they have something to refer to.

Because it's not like they have other catalogs from real publishers who have reasonably priced, edited, discounted and returnable books.

something with all of our names and book titles, also has PA's name on it and is giving our publisher recognition as well.

Isn't it odd how this "publisher", which has been in business since 1999, never figured out that a catalog would provide it with more recognition? I mean, that must the only reason PA didn't produce one until now.

Hey maybe this could be a paid position for reps.

I'd recommend reading what ex-employees have to say about the company, but it would be falling on deaf ears.

PA would have to sell to them at a discounted rate. and i'm not sure if there would be a conflict of interest or something with Ingram and so forth.

Another author backs this up enthusiastically, so it's now a folie a deux.

Definitely a good idea getting PA's activity in the project. We should go ahead and email them to ask if this would be a good option for the company. I can't see how it would not be; it helps them, it helps us... Shoot, I wouldn't even require payment necessarily, but some free copies of my book would go a long way as a good return for me.

Not requiring payment to be a salesperson for the books of 30,000 happy authors would suit PA perfectly. So no doubt this is an offer they can't refuse.

Unbelievable.

Jersey Chick · Sep 4, 2008

Whoa... my head... it's spinning...

If infomonster bothered to reply at all, how much you want to bet they'd cite copyright concerns for not having a catalog at all?

PVish · Sep 4, 2008

Queen of Swords said:
Author suggests working free for PA

Wonder how long this thread will last before Infocenter "transports" it elsewhere.

Remember a couple of years ago, one of the PA authors used to print out info about a bunch of PA books and tie the pages together with ribbons—all at her own expense—and hand them out to folks looking for something to read. PA didn't have to contibute a cent to that.

Wonder whatever became of that Pa author?

And then there's the "200 Authors" book—that's about a close to a catalogue as a PA book ever got. Whatever happened to most of those authors? (One is still on the PAMB—you know which one she is.)

Marie Pacha · Sep 5, 2008

This one will be gone soon. http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=27789

"If we get a statement or something if we sell no books?"

roncouch · Sep 5, 2008

Last night I posed a question on the PA message board. I asked why some sites describe PA as a vanity publisher and some PA authors as rank amateurs. I solicited opinions. So far, zero responses. The post has not been eliminated - yet. Of course, it's possible I'll never see any responses to my post - they may get zapped by the friendly PA moderator. Condemnation is a real possibility.
Ron

stormie · Sep 5, 2008

Hey, Ron! Do you have a link to your post? (I'm lazy this morning.) Should we do a countdown?!

brianm · Sep 5, 2008

roncouch said:
Last night I posed a question on the PA message board. I asked why some sites describe PA as a vanity publisher and some PA authors as rank amateurs. I solicited opinions. So far, zero responses. The post has not been eliminated - yet. Of course, it's possible I'll never see any responses to my post - they may get zapped by the friendly PA moderator. Condemnation is a real possibility.
Ron

If infomonster is true to form, you will be banned from the PAMB and the thread will be deleted.

Miranda is a member of AW and reads our PA threads on a regular basis. She has twice, if memory serves me correctly, posted into a thread here but that was a long time ago. By now, she knows where you stand on PA and has labeled you the enemy.

If the thread remains long enough for any responses, they will be the standard Pavadian replies in support of PA. That PA is a “traditional” publisher and the people calling Pavadians amateurs are jealous wannabes, although we prefer the more colorful moniker… nasty swarm of toady bugs.

EDIT: After reading your post on the PAMB, I doubt you will be banned.

stormie · Sep 5, 2008

Thanks for the link, Brian, to Ron's post. And here's one answer:

PAMB said:
There are many opinions on this, however this kind of thing should be discussed on the private board. There is a thread in the Chill Out Bar posted "OK Need Advise Plz" that addresses these concerns and there are several thoughtful opinions posted (including mine). You should read that thread and post your thoughts there.

kullervo · Sep 5, 2008

roncouch said:
Last night I posed a question on the PA message board. I asked why some sites describe PA as a vanity publisher and some PA authors as rank amateurs. I solicited opinions. So far, zero responses. The post has not been eliminated - yet. Of course, it's possible I'll never see any responses to my post - they may get zapped by the friendly PA moderator. Condemnation is a real possibility.
Ron

It's cause we're soooooo jealous of those $30 paperbacks!

Gravity · Sep 5, 2008

stormie said:
Thanks for the link, Brian, to Ron's post. And here's one answer:

"OK Need Advise Plz" ? Looks like the PAvidians have now started the LOLcats School of Hard-To-Parse Language

Pagey's_Girl · Sep 5, 2008

Gravity said:
"OK Need Advise Plz" ? Looks like the PAvidians have now started the LOLcats School of Hard-To-Parse Language

Iz kan haz kul-ade?! (Sorry. Couldn't resist....

)

roncouch · Sep 5, 2008

brianm said:
If infomonster is true to form, you will be banned from the PAMB and the thread will be deleted.

Miranda is a member of AW and reads our PA threads on a regular basis. She has twice, if memory serves me correctly, posted into a thread here but that was a long time ago. By now, she knows where you stand on PA and has labeled you the enemy.

If the thread remains long enough for any responses, they will be the standard Pavadian replies in support of PA. That PA is a “traditional” publisher and the people calling Pavadians amateurs are jealous wannabes, although we prefer the more colorful moniker… nasty swarm of toady bugs.

EDIT: After reading your post on the PAMB, I doubt you will be banned.

Brian,

I'll try posting to the private PA messgage board - if I'm black-balled or banned, so be it. I did read some of the PA authors' concerns, and they were comforted by being told to "not believe the nay-sayers," and "no one buys a book based on the publisher," etc.

Ron

Jersey Chick · Sep 5, 2008

Do they ban for stuff like that on the private boards? Or is it only an offense if the rest of the world can see it?

Afinerosesheis · Sep 5, 2008

Jersey Chick said:
Do they ban for stuff like that on the private boards? Or is it only an offense if the rest of the world can see it?

Many of my posts were removed before my banning, in both the public and private forums.

roncouch · Sep 5, 2008

Jersey Chick said:
Do they ban for stuff like that on the private boards? Or is it only an offense if the rest of the world can see it?

Chick,

I'll let you know. My PA private board post is up and running. It said I was concerned with the negativity PA received - that PA is accused of being a vanity press, poor editing, no marketing, etc. That a large number of critics were intelligent, professional authors looking only to prevent heartache and embarrassment to current and would-be PA authors. I solicited the opinion(s) of PA members.

I did get one response back telling me to forget about it (criticism, I suppose)

I'm awaiting responses from the really dedicated PAers.

Ron

Marian Perera · Sep 5, 2008

roncouch said:
I did read some of the PA authors' concerns, and they were comforted by being told to "not believe the nay-sayers," and "no one buys a book based on the publisher," etc.

That's actually good to hear - because if they have concerns, then they just may look further than the PAMB for answers. Better for them to have concerns than to decide that the PA experience is typical of commercial publishing and therefore they should be quiet, accept it and promote harder if they want a writing career.

Gillhoughly · Sep 5, 2008

"no one buys a book based on the publisher,"

Unless, of course, the publisher is PA.

Walk into any bookstore and ask the staff about PA titles. If they have dealt with a PA writer before they'll either show one lonely title on consignment or it's there because the person who ordered never picked it up. Most of the time they'll say "no we don't carry those."

Since PA does not have a catalog, is absent from any distributors (like Ingram or Baker & Taylor), brick and mortar bookstores cannot order copies unless someone asks.

Order on line? Sure--if the PA site happens to be working that day, or if Amazon has one in stock.

How humiliating it must be to go marching up to a store manager, full of pride for one's shiny new book, secure that one is now a--ahem!--Published Author, only to end up begging for shelf space or a signing table --providing that the author spends her own cash on those books.

Then here *I* come wandering into the store...

:cue "Jaws" theme:

PA writers, trust me, you don't want that. I'm mean. I don't bite babies or dogs, but consider yourself warned.

Have a nice day!

roncouch · Sep 5, 2008

Queen of Swords said:
That's actually good to hear - because if they have concerns, then they just may look further than the PAMB for answers. Better for them to have concerns than to decide that the PA experience is typical of commercial publishing and therefore they should be quiet, accept it and promote harder if they want a writing career.

Wow, I have received several responses from my "query" to PAMB questioning the enslaught of outside negativity from professional, well-intentioned authors. So far, the answers have been pretty much what I anticipated - what you anticipated. Some of these good people will never, ever be convinced PA is anything but a blessing in their lives. One person said, in effect, "even big publishing companies make mistakes." Hmmm. So far, not a single PA-er has explained, to my satisfaction, why professional, highly skilled authors would say anything negative about PA. Some think it is their duty to market their books - and that is the latest from TN.

Ron

Afinerosesheis · Sep 5, 2008

roncouch said:
Wow, I have received several responses from my "query" to PAMB questioning the enslaught of outside negativity from professional, well-intentioned authors. So far, the answers have been pretty much what I anticipated - what you anticipated. Some of these good people will never, ever be convinced PA is anything but a blessing in their lives. One person said, in effect, "even big publishing companies make mistakes." Hmmm. So far, not a single PA-er has explained, to my satisfaction, why professional, highly skilled authors would say anything negative about PA. Some think it is their duty to market their books - and that is the latest from TN.

Ron

You didn't tell us how handsome you are.

Marian Perera · Sep 5, 2008

roncouch said:
So far, the answers have been pretty much what I anticipated - what you anticipated. Some of these good people will never, ever be convinced PA is anything but a blessing in their lives.

And I have no doubt PA is - provided these authors either 1. didn't expect anything other than the printed free copies of their books 2. had a willing "pocket market" of family, friends, etc. and are happy with that. They don't want or need commercial publication, or their writing is not up to the standards of commercial publication. I'm glad they got what they wanted from PA.

What's sad is the sight of authors who could make it in commercial publication and who want commercial publication, but who are sidetracked by PA. One great example is the new author who painted the cover of her alphabet book herself, and did a great job of it. It's clear she wants the book to be shelved in stores, she wants something more than just the two copies to hold in her two hands, and she has the talent to get it - but right now she's brainstorming sales tactics and posting about how to create a catalog. And for an author like that, PA is most definitely not a blessing.

roncouch · Sep 5, 2008

Queen of Swords said:
And I have no doubt PA is - provided these authors either 1. didn't expect anything other than the printed free copies of their books 2. had a willing "pocket market" of family, friends, etc. and are happy with that. They don't want or need commercial publication, or their writing is not up to the standards of commercial publication. I'm glad they got what they wanted from PA.

What's sad is the sight of authors who could make it in commercial publication and who want commercial publication, but who are sidetracked by PA. One great example is the new author who painted the cover of her alphabet book herself, and did a great job of it. It's clear she wants the book to be shelved in stores, she wants something more than just the two copies to hold in her two hands, and she has the talent to get it - but right now she's brainstorming sales tactics and posting about how to create a catalog. And for an author like that, PA is most definitely not a blessing.

It is sad, Queen. I agree wholeheartedly.
Meanwhile, the PAMB is humming along trying to avoid answering my question

Ron

stormie · Sep 5, 2008

Queen of Swords said:
What's sad is the sight of authors who could make it in commercial publication and who want commercial publication, but who are sidetracked by PA. One great example is the new author who painted the cover of her alphabet book herself, and did a great job of it. It's clear she wants the book to be shelved in stores, she wants something more than just the two copies to hold in her two hands, and she has the talent to get it ....

She'd be a good candidate for getting an agent who reps children's PB illustrators. I can name three right off the top of my head. All she needs is to send some samples. Maybe she will someday, and just chalk that book up to drinking the Kool-Aid.

brianm · Sep 5, 2008

Queen of Swords said:
What's sad is the sight of authors who could make it in commercial publication and who want commercial publication, but who are sidetracked by PA. One great example is the new author who painted the cover of her alphabet book herself, and did a great job of it. It's clear she wants the book to be shelved in stores, she wants something more than just the two copies to hold in her two hands, and she has the talent to get it - but right now she's brainstorming sales tactics and posting about how to create a catalog. And for an author like that, PA is most definitely not a blessing.

I agree. One can only hope her experience with PA will not sour her on writing in the future because the lady obviously has talent.

Son of PAMB and its quotes

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