The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

Tilda · Aug 29, 2005

It's good to see people seeing the scam at earlier and earlier stages, like LV Dutton and Engrose (welcome, to both). What amazes me is those few authors who have been with PA for what seems like ages, yet seem to want to be professional authors (like Lynn Barry). They can't possibly be selling enough to even match the numbers of the worst-selling books from real publishers, yet they stay. Me brain no fathom!

LV Dutton and Engrose, your best bet is to look around this site and other writing boards, such as Writers' Net. Get honest critiques for your work (there are online groups for that, such as Critiquecircle.com), and study the submission/query process. Getting published is a daunting, time-consuming process, and only the best will make it through. But if you're willing to live with the realities and get through them, you're well on your way.

Gravity · Aug 29, 2005

Tilda: I think those PA authors you're referring to would fall into Uncle Jim's Fantasy Role-Playing category. I.E., those folks know full well they're not published authors...but their friends don't know it. They can throw around terms like submissions, editors, PDFs, galleys, page-proofs, cover art, and so on with abandon, secure in the knowledge their friends won't know the difference. Or care. Add to that the knowledge those authors will never know what a rejection feels like, and it's a fantasy world indeed.

jnm · Aug 29, 2005

*Pokes head up from behind couch*

Hello all, time to raise my hands up I guess. I'm James, and yes you've guessed it I'm (whispers) a P(fcuking)A author. The one engrose mentioned in an earlier post, she referred me to this site.

All I can say is PA have my manuscript so I guess I'll simply let then go through the motions and publish the damn thing. I won't buy any though, and my intention is to rewrite the book with a new title and hopefully publish using a pseudonym.

Anyone know if they can touch me if I do that?

Anyway, I look forward to meeting those who have gone where nobody should have gone before.

Jamie.

James D. Macdonald · Aug 29, 2005

jnm said:
Anyone know if they can touch me if I do that?

Bad idea without competent legal counsel. It could put your new publisher in a very uncomfortable spot.

Better idea: Write another book. Sell it. Either break the PA contract or run out the clock on it.

JennaGlatzer · Aug 29, 2005

But CJ, those all come from different publishers... at a legit house, I've never heard of cover designers using the same art for more than one book! I do believe heads would roll at any of my publishers' design departments if they tried to reuse one of my covers on another book.

P.S. Welcome, new friends. Sorry for the circumstances that led you here, but glad you made it here!

writerjenn · Aug 29, 2005

James D. Macdonald said:
Bad idea without competent legal counsel. It could put your new publisher in a very uncomfortable spot.

Better idea: Write another book. Sell it. Either break the PA contract or run out the clock on it.

Agreeing with Jim. It probably wouldn't be illegal to do those things, but its definitely not ethical. You'd have to rewrite a good portion of the book, along with appropriate name and title changes. It really can't resemble the old version at all or your next publisher could have serious issues with your validity and honesty.

Most PA authors come around to being right where you are. The best advice I can give is to let that novel go, and start working on a new one. Most writers have more than one story in them anyway, and something completely fresh and removed from Publish America is probably the best route to take.

Jenn

Sara Rachael Hope · Aug 29, 2005

PA's recent "Woe Is Me" Mantra!

For those of you who have not seen this yet, I'd like to make your day (and put a little smile on your face!).

Go to:
http://www.authorslawyer.com/case/diln05c4519d001.pdf

It's quite interesting as well as amusing

.

ByGrace · Aug 29, 2005

Jim,

What if an author has had their contract terminated with PA and rights have been reverted? I want to rewrite my novels, retitle them, and then submit them elsewhere. I plan to do this after I find a publisher for my next book. There is no problem in submitting again is there?

James D. Macdonald · Aug 29, 2005

I can find examples of legitimate publishers reusing cover art -- it's vanishingly rare, but it has happened. The point is that with PA it's an everyday occurrence.

Part of the PA scheme is doing outrageous and harmful things on a routine basis, then pointing to obscure exceptions out in the world of real publishing and shrieking "See?! They do it too!"

Why doesn't PA care about its covers? Because taking care with the cover wouldn't sell addtional books. Mom hung your kindergarten fingerpaintings on the refrigerator door, didn't she? She'll buy your book too, regardless of the cover.

It doesn't matter if they have the guy with the rose on two covers -- unless you're personal friends with both authors you aren't going to buy both books anyway.

James D. Macdonald · Aug 29, 2005

ByGrace said:
What if an author has had their contract terminated with PA and rights have been reverted?

If your contract was canceled and your rights reverted, you can do anything you want with your book: Rewrite it as you choose, resell it anywhere.

Sheryl Nantus · Aug 29, 2005

Lady of Prose said:
Another PA writer being deceived by her fellow PA contirbutors.

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=5411

InfoCenter must be sleeping this morning.

no, InfoCenter's letting the other "successful" PA authors do the work for it - spreading the disinformation that they usually do about how the no-return policy really is a Good Thing for PA authors, doncha know...

AnneMarble · Aug 29, 2005

JennaGlatzer said:
But CJ, those all come from different publishers... at a legit house, I've never heard of cover designers using the same art for more than one book! I do believe heads would roll at any of my publishers' design departments if they tried to reuse one of my covers on another book.

FWIW I have heard of publishing houses reusing existing cover art, depending on the agreement they had with the artist. I know this has happened in the romance field. (I remember one cover that was used on both a Medieval book and a book that took place much later, and the costumes were "out of period" for either era.) I think at least one of the covers was a Leisure book, not one of the bigger publishing houses.

BTW without knowing the deals involved, it's possible that the artist kept the rights and resold the cover art to a different publisher. Anyway, it's still quite rare.

James D. Macdonald · Aug 29, 2005

Four PA authors have replied to that nervous author.

Of those "successful" PA authors:

One had her book come out in May, 2005.
Two have their books scheduled for September, 2005.
One doesn't have her PA book scheduled yet.

Honeymooners.

Infocenter doesn't answer because if Infocenter answers, Infocenter might have to testify under oath about posting "facts" that her or she knows are purest BS.

Rose colored glasses · Aug 29, 2005

Sara, Thanks for posting that. I love the last charge - unfair business practices.

James, welcome. I'm from the Yahoo group ( complained about InfoCenter) and I also got banned yesterday.

DaveKuzminski · Aug 29, 2005

Popping in for just a moment.

If you have a friend who writes and is seriously considering PA, suggest to your friend that he send in the worst possible manuscript he has around to PA. If he doesn't have one, offer him one of your worst trunk manuscripts that you've been meaning to rewrite to use. When it comes back accepted, ask him what that means. Hopefully, he'll figure it out right then that PA accepts anything and that it means he won't actually be published. Better yet, he'll figure out that he doesn't want to be lumped in with the other authors at a publishing house that routinely accepts garbage.

NancyMehl · Aug 29, 2005

Cover Art

My son is a graphic artist. I think what PA is doing is buying "stock photographs." This is done quite often in advertising, etc. They use the photograph - then design a different background to go with it. I'd have to ask my son (he's at work right now), but I believe that each time you purchase a stock photograph, you have to pay for it. I wonder if PA does this. They may purchase the right to use the photograph - then reuse it without permission.

If stock photographs are used correctly, they should be different for every design. Using the same face over and over again - if legal - is not very professional.

My son has designed several book covers. He does the design from start to finish - he doesn't use stock photography.

I'd love to show everyone the cover he did for my new book, but I won't post it here unless I get permission. Maybe under another topic?

Nancy

Lady of Prose · Aug 29, 2005

Sheryl Nantus said:
no, InfoCenter's letting the other "successful" PA authors do the work for it - spreading the disinformation that they usually do about how the no-return policy really is a Good Thing for PA authors, doncha know...

Silly me, I had a temporary lapse of memory there...

Anyhow, the supporters work very hard convincing themselves to convince others to convince others! Yep, you are right, they do good InfoCenter work.

mdin · Aug 29, 2005

Yes, Nancy. They do use stock photography. Way upstream in this thread we discovered a few websites that were selling stock photographs, and we had found the corresponding PA titles.

I've looked at so many PA covers, I can now recognize 5-6 obvious repeats every single batch of new covers, and I bet there's a whole lot more.

[ot]btw, I always hated that cover for The Golden Compass. It makes one of the most formidable characters in fantasy look like a teddy bear. [/ot]

Jaws · Aug 29, 2005

JennaGlatzer said:
Y'know, I was really feeling bad for the cover art designers after I read Willie's book. He said they do 25 covers a day, which he bragged was an industry record.

Not only would it be an industry record, but it would make the cover designers rich. Quickly.

In commercial publishing, a relatively uncomplicated cover design costs around $400 to $600 when adapted to the actual content of the book, plus the cost of any image from a third party (painting or photograph) used on the cover. At "25 covers a day," that cover designer "earned" $10,000 to $15,000 that day… presuming that his work approached the (reprehensibly lo) industry standard for quality, fitness, and accurate representation of content. That means that in one day, the cover designer "earned" as much as 120 or more PA authors can expect to earn in royalties over the lives of their books, based on median sales of 58 copies.

Lady of Prose · Aug 29, 2005

James D. Macdonald said:
Infocenter doesn't answer because if Infocenter answers, Infocenter might have to testify under oath about posting "facts" that her or she knows are purest BS.

Actually, I didn't expect "it" to answer -- just to pull the thread. Rather surprised that it's still there, since the waves are disturbed already. But as Sheryl pointed out, the rah, rah, booster honeymooners are doing a good job.

mdin · Aug 29, 2005

This is from June:

XThe NavigatorX said:
Hey, I think I found the database.

Jupiter Images, which is a huge company that has tons of subsidiary stock photography websites.

Hereis the stock photo of PA's favorite gun. (This is one of about 10 or so book covers that use this image.) Here is the licensing information. Lemmee see if I can find more.

Edit: Their database is so friggin' big I have to pick and choose PA titles with unique things on the cover. For example I saw this book, searched "doctor and baby" and came up with this.

Edit: More. Here's car guy. And here's sword guy.

Bufty · Aug 29, 2005

Lady of Prose said:
Actually, I didn't expect "it" to answer -- just to pull the thread. Rather surprised that it's still there, since the waves are disturbed already. But as Sheryl pointed out, the rah, rah, booster honeymooners are doing a good job.

Wonder when this one will be spotted - it is captioned - Listen to that negative e-mail. it is true

Ever since my book has been out it has been nothing but a headache. I have sent my book in, called, driven all over God's green earth. No one will buy it becuase it is POD. Walmart, B&N, and even the Military bookstores are having a hard time being able to purchase it due to the 'No-return' policy that PA has. I am active in the Army as a medic and wrote my book based on the journal I kept in Iraq. Its a real shame I am going to have to let my True story from combat experiences sit on the internet. True, people will buy it but it's a lot easier to tell people which store to go to than where to order it from the Internet.
Good luck to you all. I hope this doesn't happen to you. It has been very dissapointing. But hey, we all learn and do things a little differently next time.

ByGrace · Aug 29, 2005

Here's something I found interesting. On the PA board, an author is excited about her book being #7 on the Amazon list of PA books. I can understand her excitment since she is new. But my heart goes out to her, that when she gets her royalty check her bubble will indeed be busted. Being in the top ten books on Amazon can give a newbie the impression they are making a lot of sales, especially when there are over 10,000 PA books on Amazon.

If you go to 'Search' and type in Publish America and in the subject line 'romance', a friend of mine has her book as the one and only #1 bestseller....her contract was terminated in January.

One of my books is listed as #5 for historical romances when you use 'PublishAmerica' in the publisher line. My contract was terminated in April.

PA authors, what does this tell you?

Christine N. · Aug 29, 2005

And in the case of one of the books with the 'famous painting' the book was ABOUT that girl and the artist. So it makes sense. It's like the Mona Lisa being on the cover of the DaVinci Code. What else should be on there?
But in PA's case, it's just random images, perhaps connected with the story, perhaps not.

Oh, and that thread? LOL. Since when do bookshops NOT buy books, but only put them out for display? Ask Bonnie how much she spends NOT to buy books.

Now, of course if they get returned bookshops get credit toward further purchases, but money, at some point, changes hands.
Yikes.

akaa1a · Aug 29, 2005

And another thread has begun about how bookstores won't carry PA books...

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=5407

Somehow, I think that many are finally seeing the light today!

The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

Seen 'em come, seen 'em go

jnm

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