Meyers fanfic writer's *conditional* apology

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Cyia

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I would say there's a bit of a difference in the two - the one you're reading has no intention of using Ms. Meyer's characters when and if she overhauls it for publication. It's her own story she plans to fit it to her own world.

Taterhead just stuck her name on Meyer's characters and thought she could get paid for it.
 

Gillhoughly

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Is that possible for a work that started as a very well known fanfic with a growing base of readers or would the fact that it has been read by so many as fanfic go against it?

Multiple Hugo Award-winner Lois McMaster Bujold wrote a fan fic about a Klingon and human Federation officer trapped on a planet. They put aside their differences to survive and against all odds fall in love.

She called it "Mirrors."

She later filed off the serial numbers and it was renamed "Shards of Honor" and sold it to Baen Books. It's still in print after all these years.

It is still my favorite kick-ass space opera novel.

It was the first of her whole amazing Vorkosigian series.

I don't know how well-known Mirrors was when it was still a Star Trek fic, but it can be done.

Let it be known that Lois never tried auctioning copies on the Internet or sent out press releases or sent whining letters of apology to the copyright holders or ever once used the phrase "I'm entitled."

Like any other fan with more than two working braincells between her ears, she knew better than to do that.
 

The Lonely One

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I’d been having the same dream for several days now.

okay, okay. Not the best sentence but I'm ready to hear what comes next.

It was like a cycle, repeating itself over and over endlessly.

Huh. Like a cycle. Repeating itself over and over...isn't that a cycle?

Nothing ever changed in it. Everything happened exactly the same every time I dreamed it.

So. You need...both...those sentences?

It gets worse. Glad she decided to share this with the world.
 

Cyia

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okay, okay. Not the best sentence but I'm ready to hear what comes next.



Huh. Like a cycle. Repeating itself over and over...isn't that a cycle?



So. You need...both...those sentences?

It gets worse. Glad she decided to share this with the world.

And that was about as far as I got, too.

Reminded me of Bart Simpson: I'm on TV, it's my job to be redundant. My job is redundancy. It's my job. My job.
 

Gillhoughly

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Does anyone have the computer fu skills to ferret out the name of the host provider for her website?

If so, then she is now in violation of her Terms of Service. Most have strict rules about copyright violation, but rarely enforce them unless someone complains. You have to read the fine print of their TOS rules.

It's one way of shutting her down.

Thanks for the concerns on my health. I'm feeling better, and managed some work today: proofing the galleys to my next novel that my agent sold last year to a major publishing house.

BTW---That's something you'll never get to do, Glorianna Arais.
 

Cyia

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Not sure if this is what you mean, but from WhoIs:

Technical Contact:
Hostmaster, Globat [email protected]
1128 Ventura Blvd. #443B
Los Angeles, CA 91604
US
+1.3234175167 Fax: +1.3234174995



Registration Service Provider:
Globat, [email protected]
877-245-6228
http://www.globat.com
This company may be contacted for domain login/passwords,
DNS/Nameserver changes, and general domain support questions.
 

Gillhoughly

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Cyia, you're AWESOME.

So---who wants to be first to report her?

I'm thinking multiple complaints might get their attention faster.

Here's the addy [email protected]

Since we are not the actual copyright holder--that would be Meyers--we can't really do much more than point out to the host server that one of their customers in in violation of their policies.

OTOH, they might not want to wait to hear from her lawyers or from the publisher's legal department and take action first, just to avoid problems.

I hope so.
 
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Moonfish

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I just like what George R R Martin says on his homepage, on the topic of wanting to write:
"Write every day, even if it is only a page or two. The more you write, the better you'll get. But don't write in my universe, or Tolkien's, or the Marvel universe, or the Star Trek universe, or any other borrowed background. Every writer needs to learn to create his own characters, worlds, and settings. Using someone else's world is the lazy way out. If you don't exercise those "literary muscles," you'll never develop them."
 

Gillhoughly

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Her host server is 1and1. The link is to their TOS agreement.

She was in violation of clauses 7.9 and 7.10 of her agreement with them by posting the fic. I just checked her site and there's no link to the page, but it's still up.

I've just sent a mail on it to them at this address:

[email protected]

If anyone else wants to send them a "heads up" please feel free. I'm tired of this twit.
 
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Old Hack

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Gill, might it be better NOT to get her website taken down? If it's still up then Little, Brown's lawyers can have a good look at it... which might end up being far more effective.

However, having seen how Old Tater reacts to Fandom Wank etc., I bet that if she did lose her internet access she'd just put out another press release and find herself a new ISP.
 

Gillhoughly

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In which case we go after the new ISP.

I'm tired of the "I'm entitled" brats.

At some point in their life they have to figure out that they're not special, and that no means NO.

She had a choice to be a better person and didn't take it. As far as I'm concerned, it's open season on thieves.

The site will be there in cached form. I hope they nail her sorry arse to the wall.
 

BenPanced

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Momento Mori

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BenPanced:
Yanno, I'm all for artistic integrity and purity of ideas and all that rot, but if I'm going through the trouble of writing a novel, I'm making the money off of it, dammit.

Yeah, I love how the people who want authors to "share" are always the ones who want to create derivative works themselves.

Having been quiet at work, I've taken the time to go through the article and it really is the most unconvincing piece of crud I've read on this subject in a while.

Leo Babauta:
there were a few people who were able to create works of art without the protection of copyright laws. Shakespeare, Milton, Cervantes, Virgil, Dante … to name but a few big names.

Way to miss the point. Of course you don't need copyright laws in order to create works, but you do need copyright to preserve your right to make money from them. How do these examples counter that - many of them were reliant on sponsors or patrons in order to make a living because they couldn't count on doing so from their actual work.

Leo Babauta:
The vast majority of artists are never read or seen or heard by the public, because the corporations don’t deem them to be profitable enough. So the system doesn’t help artists anymore — it hurts them.

Leaving aside the fact that the vast majority of artists who are never read, seen or heard by the public probably aren't good enough to be read, seen or heard by the public, in fact the copyright system does help those artists because it stops corporations from being able to take their work without compensating them for it. It's the market that works to keep their genius hidden.

Leo Babauta:
Third, I have proven that it’s possible to make money, even today, without using copyright.

Yes, it is possible to make money in certain circumstances - and it's interesting that those who have made money tend to do so in the written media and usually involve people with enough technical savvy to know how to exploit it. When you don't know what you're doing but just unleash your work to see what happens, you can actually lose money, which I think is what happened to Radiohead with one of their albums.

Leo Babauta:
Finally, copyright actually hurts artists, instead of protecting them. When you try to protect your copyright, you waste precious time and money pursuing violators — time and money you could be using to create instead of threaten litigation.

That's why you hire lawyers to pursue violators for you and why you claim damages against the violators to compensate you for those costs and damages. While your lawyers get on with the job of lawyering, you get on with your job of writing.

Leo Babauta:
When you protect your copyright, you are denying someone else the use of your ideas and creativity — which might seem good to you, but it doesn’t seem good to the person on the other end, and the community in general suffers a bit. And it hurts your reputation (if people think you’re selfish and protective) and stops your ideas from being spread as widely as possible.

Erm ... no. There is absolutely no obligation on me to think about the people who might want to rip off my work and consider their feelings. I am protective about my work. I have a right to be protective about my work, and I totally fail to see the logic of why someone else should be able to make money off their work when they've taken it from mine and not paid me a penny for it.

Leo Babauta:
By protecting your copyright, you are putting up barriers for the spread of your ideas.

Wrong. I'm putting up a barrier to the spread of the expression of my ideas not the ideas themselves.

Leo Babauta:
These people are making money by selling your work to customers you probably wouldn’t have reached anyway. They’re making money, sure, but how does that hurt you? If you could have reached these readers, you probably will anyway. In fact, if these readers really like your work, they’ll probably come looking for more … and you’ll gain a bunch of new readers.

Well let's test that for a moment. Someone puts out a book that's a word for word copy of my book but they haven't paid me to do so.

How are the "customers" supposed to know the difference between that book (which I'm not being paid for) and my book (which I am being paid for)? They don't. Either way, they're not going to come looking for my original because they think that's what they've got.

Leo Babauta:
They might put your work in a free newsletter, or print it and use it in a classroom, or put it on their blog without making money. They’ll share your ideas with others, and give you credit.

You're assuming that they'll give you credit, but there's no guarantee that they will and without copyright protection, it's going to be almost impossible to force them to do so.

In addition, it means that you lose track of where your work is being placed which could see you being put in a really difficult situation. For example, someone releasing copyright in an article about child discipline might be happy to have that article placed in a childcare magazine, but would presumably be less happy about it being reproduced on a paedophile chat room.

Leo Babauta:
I’ll repeat that in case the italics and exclamation point weren’t emphasis enough: by releasing copyright, you might get people to do your marketing for you, for free.

And the operative word there is "might". It equally might not. The issue is whether you want to take that risk.

Leo Babauta:
This digital age is defined not by how much money you can make with an individual post or book, but how widely you can get your ideas to spread. If you get your ideas to spread widely, you’ll make money. Somehow.

No, the collapse of the tech bubble in 2001/2002 proves that even the digital age is defined by how much money you can make. All those dot come entrepreneurs who sold their ideas to investment banks with the promise that their site would "somehow" make money ended up going belly up and taking the cash with them.

The lesson learned - don't go into something unless you have a very good idea of the revenue stream. And that applies to giving up your copyright protection as well.

Leo Babauta: REBUTTED POINT BY POINT IN BOLD
But how can you make money if you don’t have copyright? Let me count the ways:

- You can sell ads and make money off the increased visitors that come from your increased reputation. No one is making a lot of money from selling ads on their websites. You might make enough to cover your server costs with a bit on top. Plus if you're a writer, adverts are going to annoy the hell out of your readers. They're coming to find out about you and your books, not the special deals offered by Mr Smith's Mad Mad Autos. And this all presumes that people know to come to your website in the first place.

You can sell print versions of your book (after releasing an Uncopyrighted ebook version), and people will buy it anyway, because they like to have print books. Cite your source on this. Publishers have played with doing this for some of the bigger name authors, but they're people who already have a following of people likely to buy the print version as well. If you're a debut novelist, it's unlikely that people are going to want to own both.

You can become a consultant and people will hire you because you are widely regarded as having authority in the field … because your ideas are spread widely. Again, it assumes that people know who you are.

You can sell ebooks (as I do) even if the copyright has been released. Most of my website income, in fact, comes from sales of my Uncopyrighted ebooks. And ironically, you an only charge for those books by asserting your copyright in those versions. Equally, other people can sell copies of your work and make money for themselves.

You can gain a print book deal from your increased readership and reputation. This doesn't happen very often.

You can become a speaker at conferences and other events. You can do that without giving up your copyright.

You can create seminars and other training courses. You can do that without giving up your copyright.

You can sell related materials — t-shirts, coffee mugs, learning materials, etc. You can do that without giving up your copyright.

Leo Babauta:
Releasing copyright isn’t just about making money off your creative work — it’s much more powerful than that. It’s about sharing your ideas with others, and allowing them to use it in their work.

There's no copyright in ideas. People can do that anyway.

Leo Babauta:
isn’t this a wonderful way to repay the creative types that came before you and made your work possible? Isn’t it a great way to contribute to the creative community, and to make the world better?

The creative types who came before me kept their copyright, got paid and contributed to the creative community. I'd like to do the same and it's a system that's worked pretty well for over 300 years without all art as we know it coming to a halt.

MM
 

Gillhoughly

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Isn't it amazing how folk who don't actually make a living writing books have all these handy tips for those of us who do?

That guy's an idiot.

He's a big fish in a small pond.

I'm a small fish in a very crowded big pond and need all the help I can get.

Danged straight I'm defending a writer's copyright. It's ALL WE'VE GOT.

You gotta love the instant experts.

When people find out *I* write and sell books they hammer me with all KINDS of helpful suggestions. "You should get an agent!" (Covered.) "You should get a website!" (I should? Gee, thanks!) "You need to make it into a movie!" (Introduce me to Ridley Scott.) "Oh, don't put ME in your book!" (Not a problem.)

There was a gal in one of my writing groups who teamed up with another to do a "How to Write a Novel" book.

One tiny problem: neither had ever finished a short story, much less sold a book or had so much as a letter to the editor published.

They never let that detail stop them.

It's painful to add that they got taken in by an inept agent (they were warned) and nothing ever came of their grand project except for a few sales at s/f conventions of their spiral-bound Kinko's-printed opus.

All the information they had is available for free on the Net...which is probably where they got it.

Both are still unpublished. But they still have LOTS of ideas on how to write and how to be a writer!

They wanted a cover quote to help sales, but in good conscience, I couldn't give them one.

Like Lady Syb, they ignored facts.

She's ignoring copyright law because it's inconvenient to her ego.

Hardly professional. She wants to be seen as an equal to Meyers?

It takes more than filling up 300+ pages with words to achieve that.
 

Pagey's_Girl

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Check out this link at Lady Tatertots' page: Why releasing copyright will be the smartest thing you do. Yanno, I'm all for artistic integrity and purity of ideas and all that rot, but if I'm going through the trouble of writing a novel, I'm making the money off of it, dammit.

AIEEEE! *Headonkeyboard*

I. Don't. Think. So.

I'm with Ben. I love writing, I love building my own little worlds, but I don't see the harm in making a little (being realistic here) money off of doing what I love. (Okay, I'd really like to make lots and lots and lots of money doing what I love, but still....)
 

brainstorm77

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I confess I have not read every post in this thread but have the Meyers machine made any comment?
 

Bubastes

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Isn't it amazing how folk who don't actually make a living writing books have all these handy tips for those of us who do?

That guy's an idiot.

He's a big fish in a small pond.

Bingo. I used to check out his blog from time to time, but it's clear that he believes his own PR. I'm see this with a lot of self-appointed personal development and career "gurus" on the web.
 

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I've never posted in these threads before, but I've been following them for a while now. *looks around, waves*

Leo Babauta's article really bothered me though, especially this part:

First, history proves it wrong. Copyright laws originated in the 1700s, but amazingly, there were a few people who were able to create works of art without the protection of copyright laws. Shakespeare, Milton, Cervantes, Virgil, Dante … to name but a few big names.

Does he not realize that the reasons these copyright laws came into place was because authors like these were having trouble keeping their works from being stolen? Cervantes is one that I know for sure had this issue--someone wrote a sequel to Don Quixote and was trying to make a profit off of it (sound a little like someone we know? :tongue). That's actually why Cervantes ended up writing a the sequel to the book, or what is now known as part 2.




Sorry, I'm sure no one else is really interested in that. But it really ticked me off!
 

Libbie

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I tried to read a few pages of Potato Noon. Needs this to be more palatable:

AAAAAkhpnTQAAAAAALq8WA.png
 

Gillhoughly

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I'm not wasting my time reading more than three lines that stuff, though I will agree with you on MST3K being needed.

There's plenty of wankage going on in the Journal Fen community if you need an outlet to critique her theft.

Let's try to keep this thread more or less on topic: that Glorianna Arias is violating Stephenie Meyers's copyright of the Twilight series by the posting of that fan story.
 
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