The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

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Rose colored glasses

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As a result, thousands of PublishAmerica books are sitting proudly on bookstore shelves all across the fruited plain.


I know this has been posted before, but it makes me howl every time. Who writes this stuff? Hello? PA? You sound like dorks! Stop it.
And what about those of us who live in coastal areas or mountainous areas? Not all of us live on the plains, you know!
 

JohnJStephens

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Willem Meiners - Earlier Book

Willem Meiner's autobiography is well known to AW. An earlier book that he wrote, in 1996, is possibly more revealing as to his true character.

This book is Elementen Van Geluk (Elements of Happiness) published in The Netherlands in 1996 (ISBN 9041760199). This book describes Meiners' philosophy to achieving happiness. It is in no way a discussion. It is Meiners preaching to the reader of the book, pure and simple. And I find it disturbing.

Two paragraphs from Page 12 are particularly illuminating, in the context of the cult-like behaviour that characterizes the PA community.

My quick translation from the original Dutch follows.

This book is about having faith in oneself and self-confidence, over giving and love. It is also about God. Not the God of the bible, because that is only one of his many faces. It is about the God that you know, and the God that you are. His name is unimportant, only the noun is relevant. The noun of God is love.

You are born with love. It is one of your five godly rights. The other four are doubt, dreams, choice and happiness. I call them 'the rights of' and not 'the rights to'. Something that is lent to you gives you 'the rights of'. 'The rights to' stresses that you may have something, but you must still apply for it. Doubt, dreams, choice, love and happiness are already yours, even if you sometimes don't think so. In this book I deal with all five of them, as a call to make use of them. Not one of them, later on, but all of them now. Your godly rights are yours. You become happy if you use them. Or rather: you only become happy if you use them all.

The more time I spend looking at Meiners, the more sinister he appears.
 

Rose colored glasses

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Good find, John! Disturbing and weird, but interesting.I hate psychobabble, but he passes into...weird world. Just plain weird.

I wonder which of the " 5 rights" their denigrating emails fall under?
 

DeePower

How publishing really works

want to find out? I'll be speaking at the Milwaukee Public Library, main branch downtown, November 7, Monday from 7:00 to 8:30 PM. Brian Hill, my co-author and I will be discussing how writers can emulate (don't ya just love that word) the traits of bestselling authors and make their own books more successful. The event is open to the public and free of charge.

We will also be guests of the Harry S. Schwartz Bookshop in Brookfield WI to discuss and sign, our just released novel, Over Time: Money, Love and Football -- all the important things in life, the following evening, November 8, Tuesday from 7:00 to 9:00 PM.

Please join us if you can, I'd love to meet some of the AW members in person.

See, there is life after PublishAmerica.

Dee
 

egem55

No really this is my last post....

So I asked to be let back on the board and I even said I would not do this, but the more I think about it the more it burns me. I have one last thing to say, and I'm sure it will removed quickly so read it fast.

I'm so sick of this site downing this publisher. I don't really care so much about the publisher as I do about the writers that have published books with them.



If you are a writer and you have a company that will publish your work for free, do it! A book in your hand makes you a writer, and an ms in your drawer makes you a file clerk. People are shoveling crap about this publisher all over the web and they don't know what they are talking about.



This is a war between traditional publishers/established writers and PODs. This argument has always been around. Traditional publishers and established writers have always looked down their noses at PODs, but some of the best writers ever have published their own books. John Grisham self published A Time to Kill for crying out loud!



If you have published a book through Publish America be proud of that book and know that you got a deal that many small presses can't beat.



If you don't believe me in what I've said take a look at this article from an industry outside of the influence of traditional writers and publishing houses: http://abbookman.com/ABBookman_E100104.html



I've never seen so many writers down other writers and shovel so much crap at the same time. Anyone that downs a book for where it comes from is a Nazi and that is all.



These sites do not give helpful info to young writers they silence their voice and a few authors that are mad about getting their books published FOR FREE are pissed because they fooled themselves into thinking they would be popular overnight and it didn't happen.
 

egem55

Read the article he paid to have his first book published. It was a subsidy press. He drove around the country selling it out of the back of his car as a matter of fact.
 

Diane

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I know, I know, this isn't really worth the time, but...

egem55 said:
So I asked to be let back on the board and I even said I would not do this, but the more I think about it the more it burns me. I have one last thing to say, and I'm sure it will removed quickly so read it fast.

I believe you have the AW board policy confused with PA's. Many posts fromt his thread that do not have to do with PA specifically get moved to the Overflow thread on the Take It Outside board. I believe only defamatory messages are deleted.


egem55 said:
If you are a writer and you have a company that will publish your work for free, do it!

PA does not publish for free -- at least, not if you want any more than your 2 "free" copies (for which you had to pay for the copyright). PA's business model (as has been shown in this topic over and over and over...) depends on the authors buying their own books. Hardly "free."

egem55 said:
This is a war between traditional publishers/established writers and PODs.

You work for PA, don't you? In case you haven't noticed, the "traditional publishers" (that phrase gives you away) could care less about PA. PA isn't a blip on their radar.

egem55 said:
John Grisham self published A Time to Kill for crying out loud!

False. As has been shown over and over and over again in this thread... This is one of those rumors that authors who are a little nervous about their publisher like to cling to. Do a little investigating. Grisham published with an honest-to-goodness commercial publisher.

egem55 said:
If you have published a book through Publish America be proud of that book and know that you got a deal that many small presses can't beat.

Make us a promise, would you? Please come back in a year and tell us how wonderful the experience has been. I'm willing to put down folding money you won't do either one.

egem55 said:
If you don't believe me in what I've said take a look at this article from an industry outside of the influence of traditional writers and publishing houses: http://abbookman.com/ABBookman_E100104.html

If you had done the teensiest bit of research on this thread, you would have found that Uncle Jim has already discussed Richard Russell here.

egem55 said:
Anyone that downs a book for where it comes from is a Nazi and that is all.

Speaking of downing people...

Not having much interest in a book coming from a "publisher" that will take any and all comers is called "apprehension" (because as the old saying goes, "Once burned, twice shy") and "discrimination" (as in "taste"). That's the good kind of discrimination. Go ahead, look up the definition. We'll wait right here.

egem55 said:
These sites do not give helpful info to young writers they silence their voice and a few authors that are mad about getting their books published FOR FREE are pissed because they fooled themselves into thinking they would be popular overnight and it didn't happen.

Does the PA songbook EVER change?

I know, I know...
 

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egem55 said:
I've never seen so many writers down other writers and shovel so much crap at the same time. Anyone that downs a book for where it comes from is a Nazi and that is all.

I hereby invoke Godwin's Law

Quote: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1. There is a tradition in many Usenet newsgroups that once such a comparison is made, the thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress.

-
 

momwrites

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I have to step in here, Egem. The reason why AW even has this thread is because they are trying to warn people about crooks, and wether you believe it or not, PA is a crook. Why, you say? Just read the HUGE thread and find out why. Find out that PA gave back someone's rights, but still is selling her book, without her permission. Find out why, if you're the least bit confused or misunderstood, PA treats you like your the plague. Can you imagine a big publishing company doing that to their authors? That company would be history!

What you don't seem to understand is that it doesn't matter if you're with Simon or Schuster or with LuLu or another publishing company, you should be treated with respect and not be lied to. PA lies to their authors and they don't seem to care about them as a person or an author. They take their rights for seven years and refuses to work with them when their authors aren't happy. Let me tell you, if I was a publisher and I was publishing the next great novel, you had better bet your a** I would cater to that author and show them they want to send me their next bestseller and so on.

This is not a thread where a bunch of writers have been steamed and then have seeked revenge and holy damnation upon PA; there are hundreds of authors who have figured out they've been scammed and are looking for not only answers, but a fresh start over. Their books are dead, not because if they hadn't been sent to a traditional publisher that they wouldn't see, but because PA doens't do ANY marketing and refuses to allow returns on their books. I will say it over and over and over. Writers write, editors edit, marketers, market. I'm sorry, but I don't think it's my job to peddle my book all over kingdom com and back. If I did, I would never write.

PA takes people's dreams and crushes them. Oh yeah, at first, you think the world is wonderful and you are finally going to get noticed, and then you get your copies-mine were butchered, because they put their own editing in there and took out my PROFESSIONAL editing-tell your friends and family and start to arrange book signings, that is until you find out your book will NEVER be carried in bookstores, because bookstores DON'T carry POD books!

Sorry about all the rambling...you asked for it.


egem55 said:
So I asked to be let back on the board and I even said I would not do this, but the more I think about it the more it burns me. I have one last thing to say, and I'm sure it will removed quickly so read it fast.

I'm so sick of this site downing this publisher. I don't really care so much about the publisher as I do about the writers that have published books with them.



If you are a writer and you have a company that will publish your work for free, do it! A book in your hand makes you a writer, and an ms in your drawer makes you a file clerk. People are shoveling crap about this publisher all over the web and they don't know what they are talking about.



This is a war between traditional publishers/established writers and PODs. This argument has always been around. Traditional publishers and established writers have always looked down their noses at PODs, but some of the best writers ever have published their own books. John Grisham self published A Time to Kill for crying out loud!



If you have published a book through Publish America be proud of that book and know that you got a deal that many small presses can't beat.



If you don't believe me in what I've said take a look at this article from an industry outside of the influence of traditional writers and publishing houses: http://abbookman.com/ABBookman_E100104.html



I've never seen so many writers down other writers and shovel so much crap at the same time. Anyone that downs a book for where it comes from is a Nazi and that is all.



These sites do not give helpful info to young writers they silence their voice and a few authors that are mad about getting their books published FOR FREE are pissed because they fooled themselves into thinking they would be popular overnight and it didn't happen.
 

roach

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egem55 said:
Read the article he paid to have his first book published. It was a subsidy press. He drove around the country selling it out of the back of his car as a matter of fact.

Richard Russell has posted here before and has been refuted on all his points. He doesn't know what he's talking (writing) about. His article is the only one I have seen to refer to Wynwood Press as a subsidy press. Which leads me to believe that once again Richard Russell has gotten his information wrong.

I'm sorry, but continuing to repeat the same, wrong information over and over will not make it true, nor will it bolster your case.
 

Dawno

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On John Grisham's website it says:

Long before his name became synonymous with the modern legal thriller, he was working 60-70 hours a week at a small Southaven, Mississippi law practice, squeezing in time before going to the office and during courtroom recesses to work on his hobby -- writing his first novel.

Born on February 8, 1955 in Jonesboro, Arkansas, to a construction worker and a homemaker, John Grisham as a child dreamed of being a professional baseball player. Realizing he didn't have the right stuff for a pro career, he shifted gears and majored in accounting at Mississippi State University. After graduating from law school at Ole Miss in 1981, he went on to practice law for nearly a decade in Southaven, specializing in criminal defense and personal injury litigation. In 1983, he was elected to the state House of Representatives and served until 1990.

One day at the Dessoto County courthouse, Grisham overheard the harrowing testimony of a twelve-year-old rape victim and was inspired to start a novel exploring what would have happened if the girl's father had murdered her assailants. Getting up at 5 a.m. every day to get in several hours of writing time before heading off to work, Grisham spent three years on A Time to Kill and finished it in 1987. Initially rejected by many publishers, it was eventually bought by Wynwood press, who gave it a modest 5,000 copy printing and published it in June 1988.

Everyone else, Egam, is repeating A LIE. Ok? Here's the site: http://www.randomhouse.com/features/grisham/author.html

And here's some more from http://nt.library.msstate.edu/grisham_room/writer/weknewhim.htm

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif] book was sold to Wynwood Press, a new subsidiary of the Fleming Revel publishing conglomerate whose best known product is Guideposts magazine. [/font] [font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]After signing a contract with Wynwood, Grisham found the first thing the editors wanted to do was revise some of the content. ''While they wanted some things cut, they also wanted some embellishment , particularly in strengthening some of the characters. Dealing with editors is much like negotiating across a table between two opposing sides. The difference is that the writer and editor are working toward the same goal-to make the book as good as it can be. Eighty percent of the book is my original manuscript and I wrote all the revisions.''[/font]

Do vanity presses do revisions with an author? Not that I know of.

The sites I cite are much more trustworthy than yours. Ante up or fold, Egem.
 
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Dawno

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...and you know what urks me the most about this? It took me all of 3 minutes of Googling to find the truth from reputable sources. Yep, I had to go past a lot of links to the same lie told over and over by people desperate to validate self and vanity publishing but I found it.

Oh, by the way, there's no money waiting for you in Nigeria, either.
 

Rose colored glasses

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egem said:

If you are a writer and you have a company that will publish your work for free, do it! A book in your hand makes you a writer, and an ms in your drawer makes you a file clerk. People are shoveling crap about this publisher all over the web and they don't know what they are talking about.

Egem, I am a PA author, and what you just posted is crapola. The reasons why have been posted here ad nauseum. Having my book "published" by PA has hurt me, not helped me.
The people posting here do most definitely know what they are talking about.
 

Dawno

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nobody reads my posts. :(

Edit: OK, I saw the rep pts. and Beyondian's post. I'm sorry you guys. I was having a little pity party and I need to just stick to the facts: CJ doesn't read my posts :tongue
 
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triceretops

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Reprinted from Krause Publications' Antique Trader Book Collector's Price Guide. Copyright Richard Russell, 2003. all rights reserved.

And therein lies the problem with this extract as is pertains to the "average" writer. It's a quote from the Antique Trader Book Collector's Price Guide. I suggest that the author go straight to the PA book store and start loading up for those so called "gems" that are hidden there--the same books that are totally unedited in any way shape or form, and the same books that are poorly produced, and not to be found in hardcopy editions that would certainly boost their intrinsic "antique"value and longevity.

John, if is you, we don't hate writers or authors. Matter of fact, they are our family of creative artists that share one dream--that is to see print, share our work, and be read by more than a few aquaintences and family members. So let's not even go there. We have spoken up in the defense of those PA writers in every aspect imagineable. They work just as hard to produce a full-length manuscript be it novel or non-fiction work. But they all have the heartfelt wish to share space with all the other authors who land in the libraries and bookstores.

I've only read of one elderly author on the PA boards who is satisfied to have only a few books read by her imediate family. The rest of the posters ALL OF THEM, have more of a desire to reach a larger audience and make some decent money from their efforts. This deam is so obvious, as witnessed by their incessant need to fortify each other and concoct the most outrageous marketing ploys and stradegies. They are spending thousands and thousands of dollars in an attempt to reach these markets, in the sincere belief that this is the way true comercial publishing works. I am profoundly in their corner, and wish them all the success in the world. Because they certainly deserve it with the guts and determination to overcome all of the obstacles against them.

Their printing company is a different story. What a mask they wear to get what they're after!

When the PA authors propose legitiment questions in their forums, they are cyber erased or banned, and that is because those questions do not fit the sumpatico of PA's business model. After an author has purchased a generous portion of their own books, then PA has done its job--accomplished its prime directive, then that author can be recycled elsewhere without a care, since the next load of newbies are just beginning to make their first posts and inquiries. And then the courting begins in the honeymoon--and it's truly a spider's mating dance, where somebody gets eaten, and we all know who's lasted six years via this dance macabre.

PA is a dictatorship and I'd like to see it dumped from history--replaced by another outfit, who does the same thing, but drops the mask, the insults, the phony pandering, the outragious lies, the non-editing, the over-the-top prices, and all the other gold-digging tactics, and, then, for once tell it just like it is above board, with no weasel wording. Lulu dosen't seem to have this problem at all--they're not trying to be something they're not.

P.T. Barnum was a angel compared to these folks. After truly examining the PA case for some time, a normal person comes away with the ABSOLUTE CONVICTION that there is something very rotten, and stinking to high heavens in this company. And don't tell me that this is normal capitalism--this trascends all the boundries of busniness decency. I've been writing and exposed to publishing for 30 years and I've never quite seen the likes of this outright deception. AW is not only fighting for author's rights, but also fighting for the future of this industry. I'd hate to have my kids face a plethora of these types of companies with their writing career in the not too distant future.

I don't hate anyone, John, I feel hurt when somebody else feels hurt. I can see how easily people were deceived by this company--I've would have done the same thing, only I was spared the experience by finding this thread. We're a support group for the down-trodden too. You can hardly judge us as elitists and snobs, when we are so sensitive to someone else's pain. There are dozens of published authors in this group, and some very big ones too, so why would we begrudge the oportunity of publication for anyone, and lead them away from this printer so they might share the slush piles with us and increase the competition? So you tell me what our real agenda is? We're writers--why should we kill off our own kind? Way counterproductive.

Here's my agenda: I wanna ***** slap a printer, who masquerades as a real
publisher and demands that their authors march the goose step. No one deserves to be treated like an ingrate, or a snot stain, especially writers cause they are the most beautiful and sensitive souls on this planet.

Triceratops
 
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Beyondian

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Dawno said:
nobody reads my posts. :(
I do :hi:
[QOUTE=egem55] These sites do not give helpful info to young writers [/QUOTE]
I beg to differ. I just thought I'd mention that I have been lurking on this site for a while, and who knows whether I might not have been lured into PA if I hadn't got here first.
This site is a very important resource, and I think everyone here does a great job in battling PA.
I'll just go back to lurking now...
 

Lady of Prose

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Dawno said:
nobody reads my posts. :(

Edit: OK, I saw the rep pts. and Beyondian's post. I'm sorry you guys. I was having a little pity party and I need to just stick to the facts: CJ doesn't read my posts :tongue

Well, goody! :) I was about to say I read your post, and I love the way you handle crapola! :kiss:
 

James D. Macdonald

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Rick Russell, alas, doesn't have a single clue. Not about books, not about literature, not about publishing.

I wish him well, but I wouldn't take his word on anything. He's made, and continues to make, elementary errors on easily-checked matters of fact.

Do you want to know who really looks down their noses at self-published books? It isn't editors, it isn't publishers, it isn't other writers -- it's readers.

Readers don't pay to read slush. They learn very fast that reading slush is painful. They notice all the thousand tiny things that the vanity-press apologists claim no one notices -- the paper, the typeface, the covers, the design, the layout ... and the publishers' names. They use those as markers to spot unedited slush the next time some heaves into view. Those who make the mistake of reading unedited slush don't make that mistake again. And they tell all their friends.

That's why bookstores don't carry vanity press books. They can't sell 'em. No one buys.
 
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JohnJStephens

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James D. Macdonald said:
I have not read this book. Maybe someone can check this? If it is a translation of Elementen Van Geluk, then wouldn't this be mentioned at the beginning of the book?

But I would be surprised. Quotes such as

It is about the God that you know, and the God that you are


are rather memorable, but I have not seen anything like this discussed on the AW forum, or elsewhere.

The word geluk is sometimes difficult to translate. The word 'happiness' does not always do it justice, because the meaning is more profound than that. Although I am not certain of this, I think it is closer to the German word Glück.
 
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Christine N.

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Egem, what small presses give a better deal than PA? Please tell me - you keep bringing this up. Are you still prattling on about University presses, which, by and large, are different than small commercial presses.

If you just want to hold copies, and you went with PA... you paid $15 a piece for them when you paid for your copyright. Paying for your copyright is really neither here nor there in my opinion, but you didn't get them for free.

Sigh. It's not about POD presses, in some ways I think POD and digital printing are very good things - especially if you want small print runs right away, or keep out of print books available. But overall, it's not cost effective for the size of the runs that major houses do.

I do agree with you on one point - if you write, you are a writer. If you finish a book, no matter the quality, you should be proud. Many people never make it to "The End".

That having been said... there is a difference b/w being a writer and being an author, or a published writer. It's not something I throw around easily. This may sound elitist, but I assure you I don't mean it to. I worked hard, and beat out a lot of other people's work to get my book accepted by a publisher. My current works are being looked at by agents - I've made it past the query stage with two.

It's not a title I take lightly. I am proud to call myself author. When I hear other say "oh yeah, I wrote a book too," and proceed to tell me about their vanity experience, I want to cringe. Not that their writing isn't just as good; never having read it I can't judge, but those words "published writer" are becoming diluted in our society by places like PA.

I don't begrudge anyone their happiness with having written a book - but when the public picks up a book at a store, there is a level of expectation there - that the manuscript inside has been carefully screened, edited and molded to a readable, enjoyable experience. Why else plunk down $14.95?

Some people just like to write - more power to them. They never want a career, they do it for fun. I direct those people to Lulu. PA is the fantasy author role playing game, and it's a frustrating one at that.
 
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