Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 2

Frankie

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Trying to work on an outline, but on an emotional comedown from the meds they gave me in hospital (had day surgery on my knee). Should I continue in my head-biting-off mood, or take some more strongish painkillers, or wait it out?
 

James D. Macdonald

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Painkillers. Definitely.

Meanwhile, just heard today that Eos has accepted our latest Civil War fantasy. So, hurrah!

They want to give it a different title from the ones we suggested. Hey, if the marketing guys think some other title will sell more copies, I'm not too proud to let 'em sell those copies.
 

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Meanwhile, just heard today that Eos has accepted our latest Civil War fantasy. So, hurrah!

They want to give it a different title from the ones we suggested. Hey, if the marketing guys think some other title will sell more copies, I'm not too proud to let 'em sell those copies.
Congrats! :)
 

James D. Macdonald

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Here's a bit from that work. (It's near the beginning. It was originally the start of chapter one, but it isn't any more.)

Kevin Mulcahey was carrying a torch in his hand when he found the dead Rebel, even though it was broad daylight.

He was alone on a road in Belmont, Missouri, the rest of his squad being likewise engaged in burning the Rebel camp; a waste of perfectly good food, thought Kevin.
But in the manner of the Army the General had told the Colonel to burn everything, the Colonel had told the Major, the Major had told the Captain, and so on until the Sergeant told Private Mulcahey, and, there being no one further to tell, the deed must be done by himself and his mates.

The Rebel wore an officer's uniform: a Major in the 11th Louisiana. He had a bullet hole in his left breast and another in his left temple. He was dead and no mistake.

This wasn't the first dead man that Kevin had ever seen and he knew exactly what to do. He approached the dead Major and made a cross on what was left of his forehead, saying "Into Thy hands I commend thy spirit."

Kevin had studied for the priesthood in Ireland before he decided that if he was going to sleep with a woman he wanted to marry her and that he was of a mind to someday sleep with a woman, and so had shipped on a packet, jumped ship in New York, and made his way to Chicago, where he made a living carving tombstones.
At the commencement of hostilities he joined the 27th Illinois Infantry for lack of better to do, which brought him eventually to this dusty road on the seventh of November of 1861.

Having given a benediction, Kevin looked more closely at the Rebel. The dead man had a sword in his right hand, the blade smeared with blood.

"Gave as good as ye got, did ye?" Kevin said, and pulled the sword from the man's grip. Then he unbuckled the swordbelt to take the scabbard and patted down the Major's pockets for tobacco or gold; either would serve.

Neither were present -- only a fistful of letters, some Confederate scrip, and naught else. Mulcahey was standing there still when Sergeant Dusselman, a Pennsylvania Dutchman who had worked in a butcher shop in Cicero until the war came along, shouted, "Mulcahey, you damned Mick! Quitcher gawkin', man, and look lively. We're pulling out. Back to the assembly, damn your eyes," then passed on along the line, shouting curses and imprecations to the others in the squad as he went. "We're on the boat out of here in jig time, damn you all, or you'll be left behind and no sorrow to me."

With that Private Mulcahey trotted off the road, put his torch to a hayrick, then headed north toward the rest of his regiment. To the south the rattle of musketry told him that the Rebels were coming again. Across the river the booming of the water battery at Columbus increased in tempo.​

This is first draft. At the time I wrote that I only knew in general terms what would happen in the book. Who eventually turned out to be the main character was a complete surprise to me.
 

euclid

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What was the first Civil War Fantasy called?

I see The Confessions of Peter Crossman have a "teen" tag. Does this mean the book is YA?
 

James D. Macdonald

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What was the first Civil War Fantasy called?

I see The Confessions of Peter Crossman have a "teen" tag. Does this mean the book is YA?

No, it means that it isn't for children. Not because of sex or bad language, but because some of the concepts are complex, and there is some strong violence.

Someday you should look to see what genuine teens are reading: Regular novels. YA is more your ten/eleven/twelve year olds.

The way I think of it:

Children's is anything up to about eight years old.
Middle grades is eight/nine/ten.
Young Adult is ten/eleven/twelve.
Adult is thirteen and up.

Mostly guided by what the reader is interested in.
 

Fillanzea

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No, it means that it isn't for children. Not because of sex or bad language, but because some of the concepts are complex, and there is some strong violence.

Someday you should look to see what genuine teens are reading: Regular novels. YA is more your ten/eleven/twelve year olds.

The genuine teens I know are mostly reading manga.

(YA Librarian, here).

YA has changed a lot even in the last ten years or so. I would not give "The Astonishing Life of Octavian Nothing, Traitor to the Nation" to a twelve-year-old, nor "Looking For Alaska," nor "Nick and Norah's Infinite Playlist," nor "Tender Morsels," nor Patricia McCormick's "Sold," nor any of Ellen Hopkins's books, nor my own "A Love Story Starring My Dead Best Friend" which is quite tame by comparison. Some of that is for content, and some of that is for complexity of writing ("Octavian Nothing" is written in a rather good imitation of 18th century prose, which stretched my own vocabulary), and some of that is for emotional complexity.

http://www.hbook.com/blog/2009/09/its-not-how-long-you-make-it-is-it.html

See Horn Book editor Roger Sutton's post on book length:
another factor could be that YA has gotten older: there is much more published for older high school students than there was even ten years ago. Plus, realistic YA seems more character-driven than it used to be in the old problem novel days, and while this has given the genre undeniable depths, it may also have encouraged a certain amount of yammering on.
 

Terie

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YA has changed a lot even in the last ten years or so.

Thanks for saying this, Fillanzea. I didn't want to contradict our esteemed thread leader, but yeah, YA has changed a lot in the past decade. It's true that, as always, pre-teens compose a substantial percentage of the audience (a fact that really does abash Melvin Burgess, as I've seen with my own eyes), but there are many MANY more books on offer these days that really are targeted to actual, yanno, teens. Virtually all of the readers who've contacted me out of the blue are in their mid-teens.

My first book has a scene where there's a subtle threat of rape. I worked very hard to construct it so that a younger reader who doesn't know what rape is would only find the scene threatening and scary (and not go asking awkward questions of mom and dad), while an older reader would 'get it'. At least one children's book shop wouldn't stock the series because of that scene. And it's tame by comparison to a lot of what's coming out in YA right now!
 

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Ah, thank you for that. It's been a while since I wrote actual labeled-YA/Middle Grades. And it's also been a while since my substitute-teaching days, when the eighth-graders all had King and Koontz books (the ones who didn't have sports books, that is) in their hands.
 

Fillanzea

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Oh, for sure, when I was in high school myself (and that was only about 10 years ago) I didn't know anyone who read YA. It was all about Stephen King and Dragonlance.
 

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Uncle Jim, I just submitted the following question in the 'Ask the Agent' forum, but based on your experience with the publishing industry, what would you guess a consensus answer might be?
Check out agent Janet Reid's response to a query letter someone sent in for critique to her. Notice particularly her comments on the length aspect :)

http://queryshark.blogspot.com/2009/09/133.html
 

Delhomeboy

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Thanks and @$%&!

Next question. Your first (shorter) book sells and does all right or better. What then becomes of your 175K work that's been waiting patiently for the right moment? What are its chances of selling after your first one does?

I'm certainly not an expert or anything, but I'd believe you'd need to top the NY Times bestseller list for at least ten weeks in a row and do so with at least three books before most agent would consider any piece that's 175,000 words. Usually publishers would go for something like that if they KNOW it's going to sell, and the only way to do that is to build a significant fanbase through your other works.
 

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That same QueryShark agent has this posted on her website regarding "query letter checklist" ...

Judging by her recent response, though, maybe that's old info.
I think that's either old info, or her being polite. Here's another post where she makes some interesting comments about story length: http://queryshark.blogspot.com/2009/09/128.html

ETA: To clarify, she doesn't typically represent SF/F, but it's still very rare for debut SF/F books to sell at longer than 120K.
 
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