The Newer Never-Ending PublishAmerica / America Star Books Thread
- Thread starter James D. Macdonald
- Start date
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2008
- Messages
- 941
- Reaction score
- 124
- Location
- Princeville, Kauai
- Website
- www.loreleiarmstrong.com
Deliberate Ignorance
Why don't their authors know this?
There is a concept in criminal law called "deliberate ignorance." It applies when you avoid learning something so you can later claim ignorance. It is most often used in drug cases, such as with the guy who says, "I didn't know those packages had dope in them. I thought I was being paid $2,000.00 to transport talcolm powder across town." Not surprisingly, deliberate ignorance is treated as if you had the requisite knowledge.
I can only conclude that too many PA authors are guilty of deliberate ignorance when it comes to PA. Despite all of the warning flags--such as PA's frequent and increasingly stupid email solicitations--some PA authors apparently don't want to know the truth. They seem to prefer living in a dream world while PA continues to pick their pockets. I don't understand it. "Is a puzzlement." (quoted from The King and I)
Why don't their authors know this?
There is a concept in criminal law called "deliberate ignorance." It applies when you avoid learning something so you can later claim ignorance. It is most often used in drug cases, such as with the guy who says, "I didn't know those packages had dope in them. I thought I was being paid $2,000.00 to transport talcolm powder across town." Not surprisingly, deliberate ignorance is treated as if you had the requisite knowledge.
I can only conclude that too many PA authors are guilty of deliberate ignorance when it comes to PA. Despite all of the warning flags--such as PA's frequent and increasingly stupid email solicitations--some PA authors apparently don't want to know the truth. They seem to prefer living in a dream world while PA continues to pick their pockets. I don't understand it. "Is a puzzlement." (quoted from The King and I)
Last edited:
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2005
- Messages
- 25,582
- Reaction score
- 3,787
- Location
- New Hampshire
- Website
- madhousemanor.wordpress.com
Because if they acknowledged it, they'd have to admit that PA is a vanity press. Which means PA didn't think highly of their books. Which means they may not be Published Authors. Which means the dream-come-true is just an illusion.
Better to have a greedy, unethical, careless publisher than no publisher at all.
Actually, PA authors' ignorance sounds more like "vincible ignorance"--i.e., ignorance that would disspelled by the use of such diligence as would be expected of a reasonable, sensible, and prudent person. They do not look for the truth about PA--or they refuse to see it--because they don't really want to know the truth about PA.
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2005
- Messages
- 25,582
- Reaction score
- 3,787
- Location
- New Hampshire
- Website
- madhousemanor.wordpress.com
I believe the folks with vincible ignorance never become PA authors, or, if they do, soon wind up here.
The rest ... you could point out in detail all the ways in which PA is a vanity press, and they reply, "Yes, but MY book is DIFFERENT!"
The rest ... you could point out in detail all the ways in which PA is a vanity press, and they reply, "Yes, but MY book is DIFFERENT!"
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2008
- Messages
- 941
- Reaction score
- 124
- Location
- Princeville, Kauai
- Website
- www.loreleiarmstrong.com
I have to wonder if someone on the inside is trying to sink the ship. Maybe the departing stooge? Why else would they start a Twitter feed and a Facebook page? The message board, they can control. The Facebook page will explode.
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2009
- Messages
- 22
- Reaction score
- 1
- Location
- Lawrence, Kansas
- Website
- www.tauycreek.com
I don't think the Facebook page was set up by someone at PA. If you look at the person who's the admin she's pretty young and in Pittsburgh. I think it's someone who either loves PA, was screwed over by them or wants a place where people can kvetch about PA without fear of Info Monster sending their complaint into the cornfield.
The Twitter page was quickly closed to members only when PA saw the negative comments pouring in.
The Facebook page was started by a PA author and is still open and full of anti-PA comments in addition to pro-PA comments.
The Stooges have NO control over it.
To view, check here: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=10335565151
The Facebook page was started by a PA author and is still open and full of anti-PA comments in addition to pro-PA comments.
The Stooges have NO control over it.
To view, check here: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=10335565151
Last edited:
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2005
- Messages
- 1,100
- Reaction score
- 151
- Location
- Bath, Pennsylvania
- Website
- oddgoose.blogspot.com
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2005
- Messages
- 5,011
- Reaction score
- 697
- Location
- Sacramento area, CA
- Website
- www.umbachconsulting.com
I'd join and contribute my two-cents' worth, as an observer, but don't want even that degree of association with PA.
--Ken
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2005
- Messages
- 5,011
- Reaction score
- 697
- Location
- Sacramento area, CA
- Website
- www.umbachconsulting.com
One would like to hope so. Yet I have seen someone I had explicitly informed and cautioned about PA still sign their contract. It was the easy way, and that person took it despite having been warned.
--Ken
I know that people who've been scammed once tend to have it happen again, but this is the first time I've seen this one put right up front. From a PA author's site as an advertisement of awards for their writing. (Their sole other writing credit aside from the PA book).
This is the sad thing -- this author thinks she's got TWO genuine writing credits and that she is really an award winning writer.
This is the sad thing -- this author thinks she's got TWO genuine writing credits and that she is really an award winning writer.
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2006
- Messages
- 5,363
- Reaction score
- 1,763
I'm always warning neos against poetry-dot-com. One of my friends got caught up in it. He was so proud that his poem "won" an award with them, and I think he bought the overpriced book that "featured" his poem.
All he wanted was for his poem to help people, instead, poetry/com helped themselves.
It's MY hard luck I was born with scruples, or I'd set myself up in that racket and have my house paid off and a new car in the garage.
Scruples, fair play, respect, not going to find them with that lot.
All he wanted was for his poem to help people, instead, poetry/com helped themselves.
It's MY hard luck I was born with scruples, or I'd set myself up in that racket and have my house paid off and a new car in the garage.
Scruples, fair play, respect, not going to find them with that lot.
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2008
- Messages
- 4,001
- Reaction score
- 477
- Location
- Pacific Northwest, Washington
- Website
- merrihiatt.com
I admit I was sucked into poetry dot com once. I bought one of the overpriced books with my poem in it. After seeing the book in print, I realized that anyone who had a poem on the website was "selected" or "awarded" to have their poem printed in the book. I received a ton of "awards" after that and simply tossed them all in the trash.
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2005
- Messages
- 7,705
- Reaction score
- 1,336
- Location
- Where the Wild Things Are
- Website
- www.christine-norris.com
Here's something fun: my antivirus blocked my access to the PA FB page. I started reading and then BAM! Big red NO NO NO! message from AVG.
So there's something hinky posted on that page. Just be aware.
So there's something hinky posted on that page. Just be aware.
PA on Facebook
Thanks for the link. Very interesting. Lots of people supporting PA there, but most of them seem to be in the early stages of dealing with PA, still brimming with the excitement of being accepted by a "real publisher" and still dreaming of how their book is going to be a best seller. I find it sad that some of them have clearly read the warnings about PA on the internet, but don't want to believe them. At least one person talks about the responsibilities of the author to sell his or her own book--obviously not realizing that PA has stacked the deck against their own authors.
The people defending PA will probably change their tune once they have more experience with PA. Unfortunately, they will be poorer for the experience, because PA will have lots of their money by then. And PA will just throw them to the side of the road and move on to the next sucker. So sad.
Thanks for the link. Very interesting. Lots of people supporting PA there, but most of them seem to be in the early stages of dealing with PA, still brimming with the excitement of being accepted by a "real publisher" and still dreaming of how their book is going to be a best seller. I find it sad that some of them have clearly read the warnings about PA on the internet, but don't want to believe them. At least one person talks about the responsibilities of the author to sell his or her own book--obviously not realizing that PA has stacked the deck against their own authors.
The people defending PA will probably change their tune once they have more experience with PA. Unfortunately, they will be poorer for the experience, because PA will have lots of their money by then. And PA will just throw them to the side of the road and move on to the next sucker. So sad.
At least the Facebook pages gives us access to the authors with no interference from PA, no censorship, no verbal abuse.
You can say what you will.
Ta da!
There are contributors --who obviously know what they're talking about-- who are offering GOOD advice to the authors there.
Maybe, just maybe one or two will 'get' it and share with their compatriots back at Planet PA.
We can only hope.
You can say what you will.
Ta da!
There are contributors --who obviously know what they're talking about-- who are offering GOOD advice to the authors there.
Maybe, just maybe one or two will 'get' it and share with their compatriots back at Planet PA.
We can only hope.
Last edited:
The FB page is good...except for that part where the author with four successful book signings convinced a newbie having doubts to go with PA...that part was sad
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2006
- Messages
- 5,363
- Reaction score
- 1,763
Sad, but predictable.
They believe because they WANT to believe. There's no amount of warnings that will steer some lemmings away from the cliff.
What annoys the bleep out of me are ALL the ones who think you have to PAY to get published, so they think PA is the answer to their prayers.
Not research, not trips to the library, not improving their writing skills, not actually working toward publication.
"I've written a book, that's work enough! So now it's going to be published! PA is my big break and I'm going to be (available) in stores!"
And there they are passing on the misinformation and lies to others.
So be it. More room for my agent to sell MY works to a real publisher.
They believe because they WANT to believe. There's no amount of warnings that will steer some lemmings away from the cliff.
What annoys the bleep out of me are ALL the ones who think you have to PAY to get published, so they think PA is the answer to their prayers.
Not research, not trips to the library, not improving their writing skills, not actually working toward publication.
"I've written a book, that's work enough! So now it's going to be published! PA is my big break and I'm going to be (available) in stores!"
And there they are passing on the misinformation and lies to others.
So be it. More room for my agent to sell MY works to a real publisher.
Only the crab-bucket syndrome really annoys me. I once spoke to an author who went with PA for her first book, then resorted to AuthorHouse, Lulu and so on. Which implied to me that maybe PA wasn't that great a deal for her eventually.
But when I mentioned to her that I was looking for a publisher for my first manuscript, she enthusiastically suggested PA. If I had not known of PA, and if I hadn't checked who printed her books, that word of mouth recommendation might have meant something.
I don't like it when authors who know better try to influence or manipulate others into joining or staying with PA.
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2005
- Messages
- 3,942
- Reaction score
- 966
- Age
- 74
QFT. One of the little-known secrets of publishing is how many agents and editors are secretly grateful for the ongoing success of the Stooges' little endeavor; the krep that would have landed on their desks is gone there instead. Brutal, but there you go.
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2005
- Messages
- 1,100
- Reaction score
- 151
- Location
- Bath, Pennsylvania
- Website
- oddgoose.blogspot.com
Thank you. I had to look up "crab-bucket syndrome". I like that phrase. It describes many of my co-workers.
This is the sign-line of someone from PA and a perfect example of how someone gets pulled into it:
This is a new author, 1st time out, who thinks she hit the jackpot - a "family" (which is creepy, IMO). Publishing is a business, not a family, and the publisher / other authors at the house aren't there to hold your hand and tell you you're a good writer. Sure if you have a legit question, then you should be able to call your editor and ask them, but that's it.
This is a new author, 1st time out, who thinks she hit the jackpot - a "family" (which is creepy, IMO). Publishing is a business, not a family, and the publisher / other authors at the house aren't there to hold your hand and tell you you're a good writer. Sure if you have a legit question, then you should be able to call your editor and ask them, but that's it.