Return of a Man Named PAMB and its Quotes

Marian Perera · Jan 5, 2010

Honeymoon over

(Edited to add : page no longer available)

One of this author's first posts on the PAMB was about how she had submitted a query to eight agents and been rejected. But thank God, she said, she found PA. Shows what those agents know.

When I finished my first two manuscripts, I queried to around 9 agents; all rejected my books. So, despite all the warnings against publishing with PublishAmerica, I queried them. They accepted shortly thereafter, and rushed my books along. Everything was going well; they did a great job on all the books I had published through them; although the first two did need some editing <snip -- QoS> Anyhow, the point is, I believe it's best to only submit your first book to PA, if any at all. They were good to me, until I took them up on one of their offers.

The "we'll donate books to Oprah/Tom Hanks/the Dalai Lama" deals don't seem to have worked out for anyone (except PA).

<title> was supposed to be stocked at Wal-Mart, and the process turned out to be a joke. Basically, PublishAmerica claimed to donate 15 books to Wal-Mart if we bought 15 for ourselves. No problem; we received our books a few weeks later. However, Wal-Mart would not stock the donated copies

If getting a book in Wal-Mart was as simple as donating a few copies to them, wouldn't thousands of authors have done that already? Why is it that there are relatively few titles in Wal-Mart if this is the case?

so I figure there are 15 brand-new <title> books in the garbage or elsewhere collecting dust, while the book is on people's 'to-read' list and 'wishlists' on goodreads.com; that makes me somewhat angry, especially since PA charges nearly $20 for the books. I tried to email PA to ask them to re-send the lost batch of books to us; no reply. I could have donated those 15 lost books to those on goodreads, it would have supplied about 30-40% of readers who have <title> on their 'to read' list. But of course I couldn't do that. If nothing else, I could've also used the books for a book signing next year.

Who was it said, "Experience is a good teacher, but she sends in terrific bills"?

I'm also guessing that the author won't earn any royalties on these books.

I posted a warning on the PublishAmerica forum about others not taking PA up on their offers; they have sent out 10 to 20 of these types of offers in the last 2 months (to their authors). PA deleted my post, which I knew they would. I'm not sure, but I think they also may have kicked me off the forum, lol. That's okay, because they can't do a damn thing about me posting this on my own website, can they?

I have a few other gripes about PA

Just a few? The cover of this author's book is also one of the generic "red rose close-ups", of which PA has at least twelve (see the collection here); it uses the identical stock image as two other books.

but won't go into it any further, it would take too long. PA already has a terrible reputation, and they're not exactly trying to NOT live up to it...

<snip -- QoS> Anyhow, I advise anyone against publishing books through PA; agents rejected me, but they were RIGHT in doing so.

Also, unless you work extremely hard in promoting your books (if published through PA) your books will NOT get anywhere. Even if you do promote them, they still won't be nearly as popular as they would be if published through a mainstream press. So when other writers tell you to stay the hell away from PA, they know what they're talking about. I used to defend PA vehemently; well, no more. Lol, the honeymoon phase is sadly over...

Kweei · Jan 5, 2010

pink lily said:
That's so sad, I hope the PA victim googles for answers.

I shouln't be so shocked and horrified by any of this. But I still am. I just can't believe that they delete everyone's inquiry on the board. I hink of all those people asking questions and how they must feel when time after time their post is deleted.

tlblack · Jan 5, 2010

PA uses their message board as bait for new writer's. When you submit a query to them, they send you two links in a reply email. (If they want to see your ms... rolls eyes)

http://www.publishamerica.com/facts/index.htm.

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewforum.php?f=13&sid=58eb46af870b1915146e8d6154584e03

The facts page is full of lies and the message board shows only happy happy newbies who still have no clues about PA. In order to keep the bait on the lure where they can real in more writer's, PA has to keep that message board sparkling clean of negativity.

megan_d · Jan 5, 2010

Reading about all these messed up stunts PA pulls, how is they haven't been sued into bankruptcy yet? Surely it's not legal, the way they treat their "clients."

Cyia · Jan 5, 2010

megan_d said:
Reading about all these messed up stunts PA pulls, how is they haven't been sued into bankruptcy yet? Surely it's not legal, the way they treat their "clients."

They can't sue. There's a copy of the contract around here somewhere - every "promise" is "at [their] discretion", which means they don't have to do anything unless they feel like it. They also had an arbitration clause in there as the only means of settling disputes.

Most of the people who start talking about wanting to sue, assume the contract said something it didn't say - like how they assume the books will be on shelves, not just available through the stores if requested.

tlblack · Jan 5, 2010

megan_d said:
Reading about all these messed up stunts PA pulls, how is they haven't been sued into bankruptcy yet? Surely it's not legal, the way they treat their "clients."

When you read the PAMB you'll notice many that say they can't afford to buy their own books. That being the case with many, if not all of PA's writer's, they surely couldn't afford the legal fees of a court case. Also, once PA gets done insulting them and demanding apologies, and ruining their books, as well as putting a hole in their wallet with those weekly "buy your own books"a lot of PA author's just want out of their contracts, and hope to forget the whole experience. To add insult to injury, the few who have tried to get a lawsuit going, either by class action or to get the AG involved in filing a case, have been turned down or told that because a contract between a publisher and a writer is a business to business contract, we can't help you. The AG's office will recommend filing a complaint with the BBB, which is useless, or hiring an attorney and taking them to small claims court. Older versions of PA's contract stated the author had to take PA to arbitration and in more recent contracts, they require cases to be taken to the Maryland courts.

megan_d · Jan 5, 2010

Bah. It all leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

kullervo · Jan 5, 2010

At least the writer can take some comfort in that Walmart did not trash her books-- they never received them. Honestly, if PublishAmerica sent a single book to Walmart/Oprah/etc., I would be more surprised than if I were hit by a meteorite with my name written on it.

Wake up and smell the further scam, PA writers.

Cyia · Jan 5, 2010

This one won't last.

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=31574

Can anyone tell me anything about this nasty surprize. I had to pay $34 for the privilege of paying 2.00 duty on my one book Not nice

(IIRC, the author is Canadian, so it was an international shipment.)

Cyia · Jan 5, 2010

Hmmm. I know the feeling all too well [name removed]. I was charged brokerage fees on both of my purchases in the past. $63 EACH!! I thought that there was no duty on books (educational material). I'm surprised that they charged you duty on top of the brokerage fee. I think that the brokerage fee is because PA is using UPS. United States, UPS delivers the package to the border then Canadian UPS picks it up and pays the fee. UPS then charges it to us. This sure gobbles up any profit that we can make, using this method of purchasing. Has any other Canadians had this problem? Please leave input on this matter so we can all sob together. Or is there something that we can do?

$63 per shipment (per book? I can't tell). On top of the actual cost of the book. On top of the shipping costs.

:Wha:

Marian Perera · Jan 5, 2010

Author unable to solicit

My new book <title> was just published by PA. Thank you very much PA. I am a mental health consumer. I was unable to solicit an index card with information on getting my book to the local mental health clinic in my village. The lady said she would be breaking the law if she accepted it. Also I can't solicit these cards in the bus I use or the train.

In the apartment building where I used to live, another resident would leave pamphlets and tracts lying around in the laundry room. I would put them tidily away into the trash can.

Leaving unsolicited book promotional material in a public place not intended for that purpose isn't much different.

I guess my only option is to pay for advertisement in a magazine or newspaper.

But at least you didn't pay to be published.

The law is limiting the potential of people without money just to please the conscience of those who think it doesn't look good to solicit. People who don't want to interact with people without money has to do with class distinction and is discrimination disguised as ethics. When you buy something in a store, aren't you soliciting money? Aren't the police soliciting in public by their patrol?

Not unless they're passing around their caps and asking for donut money, no.

Susan Gable · Jan 5, 2010

Queen of Swords said:
Author unable to solicit
Not unless they're passing around their caps and asking for donut money, no.

Or asking people to buy their PA pubbed book while they're walking their beat.

Susan G.

Marian Perera · Jan 5, 2010

Cyia said:
$63 per shipment (per book? I can't tell). On top of the actual cost of the book. On top of the shipping costs.

The original poster responded. Her book cost even more.

...what I failed to mention was that I had accepted the rush order for my first book so it ended up costing me 84.00 total . I thinks it's a pretty good book but I'm not sure it's worth that kind of money to anyone else but me.

And a loyalist responds to the author who was upset that he couldn't leave promotional material at the mental health centre.

Why not just give a copy of your book to your mental health counselor and ask for his or her assistence? Your counselor can then present the book to the board. I wrote a little piece about my book and views in a little mental health news letter last year and it appeared in the news letter last November, just in time for people to consider it for a Christmas present . If you have established any good contacts at the mental health clinic you go to, you can use your contact to encourage them to do a mention about your book in their publication or give him/her some promotional matierals for your book which can be passed out to other patients etc. It is not against the law for a therapist to reccomend a book to someone and give the person a book mark etc.

I thought therapists were supposed to help people get better.

Jersey Chick · Jan 5, 2010

Imagine that someone might want to be able to sit in a clinic without having a sales pitch shoved in front of them...

Head, meet desk.

BenPanced · Jan 5, 2010

It is not against the law for a therapist to reccomend a book to someone and give the person a book mark etc.

Probably not, but a therapist isn't in the business of selling books.

Marian Perera · Jan 5, 2010

The latest offer?

Just to let everyone know. My book will not go to the Oprah show. I couldn't get them ordered because, when I tried to call the number they gave me, all I got was a recording that if I left a message, they would call back in two days. I called everyday upto the deadline and no answer. Now they emailing me with the same deal for a pulitzer nomination.

No smiley has a jaw dropping far enough for this.

Still can't get through to speak to anyone and make my order. Deadline for that is this Friday. Very frustrating to say the least. Besides, I really don't want anything to go out until I correct any mistakes on the proof pages which they have not sent yet. FYI for anyone else who might be having the same problem.

Gillhoughly · Jan 5, 2010

Yes, this is all horrific to watch from the outside.

We're wise to the predictable machinations PA employs to squeeze money from their writers.

The PA writers are not.

Let's remember that these victims are--up to the very last possible moment of denial--thinking they are dealing with an up front and truthful bunch of professionals in publishing.

They honestly do not see PA as being any different from other major publishing concerns.

They don't, really.

So, yes, it IS a nasty surprise when the writer figures out something smells in the city of Frederick.

Dear PA lurkers--we GET it.

PA done you wrong. We're here with sympathy and support, and unlike that person above whose post is going to disappear very soon, your comments and opinions are WELCOME here and will not be deleted.

:welcome:

JulieB · Jan 5, 2010

Just so everyone knows how it's done, here are the submission guidelines for the Pulitzer Prize in Letters.

They need:

Four copies of the book.
One entry form, which includes an author picture (submitted on a disc, not via e-mail) and a biography.
$50.

From their FAQ page:

Since 1980, when we began to announce nominated finalists, we have used the term "nominee" for entrants who became finalists. We discourage someone saying he or she was "nominated" for a Pulitzer simply because an entry was sent to us.

This is not to be confused with Pullet Surprise. (Check out the voice talent.)

BenPanced · Jan 5, 2010

Cyia said:
This one won't last.

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=31574

(IIRC, the author is Canadian, so it was an international shipment.)

From that thread:

<AUTHOR NAME>. You can't think like that, or yu'll drive yourself crazy. The rush order is an overall expense and not associated with a single book. Don't torture yourself. As far as the brokerage fees go there must be a way around that. Hopefully someone will help out with this.
Enjoy your book. It's finally in your hands. Forget about the $$$$ for now. Take care and Good Luck

The logic. The logic. The logic.

JulieB said:
This is not to be confused with Pullet Surprise. (Check out the voice talent.)

Oh, yeah. Stan Freberg did the voice of Pete the Puma in his first outing with Bugs.

Cyia · Jan 6, 2010

Another writer weighs in with his "brokerage fee" experiences.

The last two times that I ordered books I was nailed with brokerage fees as well. Both times the amount was above $75.00. At first I thought that it had to be a screw up because PA said that it would cover the cost of shipping. I didn't realize that shipping and brokerage fees are two separate things.

I wonder if this is a new thing as I never paid brokerage fees in the past when I used to place larger orders than I do now. It has made me reevaluate my marketing strategy. Instead of me being the middle man selling books that I purchase to my readers I am now going to tell them to order directly from PA or from one of the online bookstores and I am going to stay out of it.

JulieB · Jan 6, 2010

The problem with UPS is that the brokerage fees just keep going up and up as the value of the shipment increases.

It's possible to ship USPS without paying the fees, though the shipper generally has to stand in line at the Post Office and fill out the paperwork. Canadians may still have to pay taxes on the value (price they paid, so a PA author buying at a discount isn't paying on the cover price) of the goods.

(I used to have a client in Canada and occasionally had to ship stuff to them.)

Cyia · Jan 6, 2010

A response to a thread about one of PA's correction offers.

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=31436

The CORRECT 40 offer is a bit tricky. I took advantage of it back in November and submitted a few minor changes which could have been made in about ten minutes. The offer stated that I should hear back from the editorial department in two weeks.

It's now been two months and despite a couple of reassuring messages, I've heard nothing about when revised copies will be available. I've lost holiday sales and year-end book-signing opportunities as a result.

My experience with PA has generally been most satisfactory. However, had I known that accepting the CORRECT 40 offer would have had this effect, I would have passed on it.

Marian Perera · Jan 6, 2010

Another author responds on the Oprah thread, about delays.

Any orders you make now will be considered "pre orders", i.e., they are made prior to printing of your book. Once your book is available, it could still take several weeks for any order/pre order to be processed.

The net of this is that you probably won't get anything shipped to you for approximately another 8-12 weeks, possibly longer. We waited 12 weeks before our pre orders arrived.

Once your book is in print, you may want to order a copy from PA, Barnes & Noble, or Amazon; then, send it to Oprah or wherever you wish.

Hmm... that doesn't sound the same as "Place a minimum order of 14 books, and PA will donate five copies to Oprah".

If you order with PA and use an author discount, beware...this will delay shipment of your book(s). It's better to pay full price and get it shipped immediately (we know from experience).

Bolding mine.

Cyia · Jan 6, 2010

I can't tell if they've canceled her book or just the "rush". The title of the thread is "Somebody Please Help Me" - no one should have to turn to a message board because their publisher is incapable of giving answers.

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=31585

ok I don't understand what's going on with my book I did receive my proofs about 2 weeks ago I paid the 49 dollar rush fee on December 2 and yesterday I was called and said my money was going to be refunded I asked for a reason why and she claimed she didn't know so I called the publish America office and have emailed for the past 2 weeks now and nobody know where my book is or why my money was refunded and I also called today and nobody knows nothing and said theirs no phone number to where I can find out I don't even know if I gave my credit info to the wrong people yesterday

Marian Perera · Jan 6, 2010

The desperation in that post is heartbreaking.

Edited to add : A loyalist replied. The original poster had said,

I called the publish America office and have emailed for the past 2 weeks now

And the reply was,

You should get in touch with
Publish Support...

[email protected]

Return of a Man Named PAMB and its Quotes

starting over

Expert Procrastinator

nothing simple here

Falling in the milk

Rewriting My Destiny

nothing simple here

Falling in the milk

minion

Rewriting My Destiny

Rewriting My Destiny

starting over

Dreamer of dreams, teller of tales

starting over

Up all night to get Loki

THE BLUEBERRY QUEEN OF HADES (he/him)

starting over

Grumpy writer and editor

I grow my own catnip

THE BLUEBERRY QUEEN OF HADES (he/him)

Rewriting My Destiny

I grow my own catnip

Rewriting My Destiny

starting over

Rewriting My Destiny

starting over