The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

Thanks Pa , It's nice to know that you are responding so quickly with clear and consise answers. I am never diappointed with PA and get a special kick every time my confidence is reinforced exposing the lies of all those PA bashers who make so many ridiculous and utterly untrue remarks.

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Well after the info monster reported to the authors the return policy, some of the members thanked it unconditionally. Then this quote came out from one such author...

If you want to know about returns: A post I wrote a year ago.

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=84594&postcount=2307

Jo Scott said:

Then this quote came out from one such author...

I am never diappointed with PA and get a special kick every time my confidence is reinforced exposing the lies of all those PA bashers who make so many ridiculous and utterly untrue remarks.

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Ah, yes, Jo ...

That same author, later in the same post, says

I don't have an ISBN yet

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A honeymooner.

Let's keep a watch. One year after his/her book is printed, I bet he/she will be singing a different tune....

So true...

Let's keep a watch. One year after his/her book is printed, I bet he/she will be singing a different tune

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Back at PA Infocenter chimes in:


Quote:
1. Royalties are paid on all books that are sold to and paid for by the retailer.
2. If a retailer later returns a book and receives our refund, the already paid royalty on that refunded book will be subtracted from the first next royalty check.
3. According to Ingram, retailers have up to 18 months to return unsold books.

__________________

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Okay, someone help me out on this: citing item number two, would it be possible if, after one royalty period payments were made, enough books were returned so that the total returns actually exceeded the royalties paid previously for the author to actually receive an invoice for royalties paid owed back for returns? (Holy awkwardly-worded sentences, Batman...) This is just an extrapolation on my part but I wouldn't put it past PA.

-Nick

Nexusman said:

Okay, someone help me out on this: citing item number two, would it be possible if, after one royalty period payments were made, enough books were returned so that the total returns actually exceeded the royalties paid previously for the author to actually receive an invoice for royalties paid owed back for returns? (Holy awkwardly-worded sentences, Batman...) This is just an extrapolation on my part but I wouldn't put it past PA.

-Nick

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Publishers hold back 10-20% of each royalty payment against future returns. So, if they owe you $5000 for a six month period they'll pay $4000 and carry the $1000 over to the next royalty statement. If they owe you $2000 for the following statement you get $1600 plus the $1000 held over, less any returns which came in in the meantime. And so on.

Cheers
Simon

I'm going to make a prediction here about PA that it will definitely revolutionize the publishing industry... the day it goes into a courtroom and causes sweeping changes like the Thor Power Hammer case. Only in PA's case, it will probably cause legal requirements that all contracts be written to state exactly what they mean and not use weasel words.

DaveKuzminski said:

I'm going to make a prediction here about PA that it will definitely revolutionize the publishing industry... the day it goes into a courtroom and causes sweeping changes like the Thor Power Hammer case. Only in PA's case, it will probably cause legal requirements that all contracts be written to state exactly what they mean and not use weasel words.

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OK, what is the Thor Power Hammer case?

Thor Power Tool. A tax case. Essentially, it said that items in warehouse had to be taxed at full market value. What it did was made sure that publishers put books out of print if they were selling slowly, so as not to be taxed on unsold, and possilby unsaleable, merchandise.

The industry has already adjusted, with multiple smaller printings.

Far more details here:

http://www.sfwa.org/bulletin/articles/thor.htm

spacejock2 said:

Publishers hold back 10-20% of each royalty payment against future returns. So, if they owe you $5000 for a six month period they'll pay $4000 and carry the $1000 over to the next royalty statement. If they owe you $2000 for the following statement you get $1600 plus the $1000 held over, less any returns which came in in the meantime. And so on.

Cheers
Simon

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So, to translate this into PAese, the author gets a statement showing sales that equal $6.00 in royalties, but, due to a few returns, they are paid zero. Or, their first statement has zero due to PA "banking" against future returns. Thus furthering the mentality that authors buying the books themselves and reselling is the best way. Great.

James D. Macdonald said:

Thor Power Tool. A tax case. Essentially, it said that items in warehouse had to be taxed at full market value. What it did was made sure that publishers put books out of print if they were selling slowly, so as not to be taxed on unsold, and possilby unsaleable, merchandise.

The industry has already adjusted, with multiple smaller printings.

Far more details here:

http://www.sfwa.org/bulletin/articles/thor.htm

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Thanks! And the link gave perfect explaination of how it works.

O.K. PA, wipe that smirk off your face....

Gee, you have withstood Encyclopedia Britanica, Phil Dolan, Atlanta Nights, The Purple Pony and Cancer Boy so far. Your bastions are impregnable, especially while "newbies", whose books have not yet been published, continue to kiss the ground and thank you for giving them "the chance they deserve". Of course they have not yet found out that their books will not be in bookstores "from sea to shining sea" and if you ban enough "oldies", they won't find out until a year hence, when they will have bought lots of their own books.

My book has been out for slightly over two years and you have gone from 4,000 to 18,000???? authors, but note the trend. The word is out and, as you continue to ban strong voices, we ARE going to bring you down. I resent that some of your new authors, who do not know the score, still call us LIARS, but are too chicken to challenge us on this forum. If I am to be called a liar, I would like "my day in court" to show my evidence, as would many others, I am sure.

Now it seems you are working on another way to cheat us out of our royalties. Is the excuse going to be "holdback" on our minuscule royalties as well as the infamous "you have to wait 90 days as we have not been paid for your book yet"? All baloney! Is that the reason you paid me royalties in APRIL, instead of FEBRUARY 2004 when I made a stink? Is that not in direct contravention of your Contract?

My sincere request: ex PAers please take the time to put your stories on the web so that it does not look as if they are only eight or nine of us, when we know they are actually hundreds, if not thousands, of authors "UNHAPPY" with PA.

My second request: Those of you yet unpublished, or thinking of using PA's services, read the stories on the web; access this forum (a lot of you read it anyway). Do not buy your own books until you have ALL the facts and do not SIGN with PA until you hear the truth. We can supply documented evidence of PA's lying and abusive tone letters. We are not LIARS. Take the challenge!

postshy/Roberta

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:52 am Post subject: Guess what I found out

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I was playing around on the internet typing my name in and then my book titles and I came on my book H&B. I was thrilled! Then I looked closer and saw that it was under testimonials for PA. Well, I did write one to PA when my first book was published and so I clicked on it and to my surprise, it was a paragraph from this messege board. I spoke highly of PA (and still do) and realized that PA is going through the boards and picking out the good we say about them and placing them on its testimonial page.

I have no problem with that, but I kind of feel violated. Couldn't PA have asked me if they could use it (I would have said yes) instead of stealing it from me?

How does everyone else feel about this? BTW. other author's had testimonials on the page too.

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... a bit of irony there, they can't ask a writer to give them a review or testimonial so they take it off the ever popular message board....

WTG ROBERTA...We all support you!

I think that PA is planning to dedect the royalties of returned books from future royalty checks.

This would work great if there were future royalty checks.

What I think they're banking on is that with the 5% discount there will be darned few returns because there will be darned few ordered.

Publish America: squashing dreams one author at a time.

James D. Macdonald said:

What I think they're banking on is that with the 5% discount there will be darned few returns because there will be darned few ordered.

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I think you're right, and I think they're right.

Jo Scott said:

... a bit of irony there, they can't ask a writer to give them a review or testimonial so they take it off the ever popular message board....

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That's why they post the disclaimer about using anything you put on the message board for marketing and promotional purposes.

One less 'happy author' for their future...

I was sitting at my desk today, just doing my job and signing up a new insurance client. As I filled out her paperwork for her, we chatted. She mentioned that she was a writer in her spare time. The other lady in the office bubbled up and informed the new client that I was just recently published and might be able to help her with her endeavor to find a publisher.

Boy, did I help her! That's one less for them to get their hooks into!

I get bored and read the PA site at times and post here what is said...

Well, I came across something that made me sit up and wonder....

Why has the Info guy at PA not taken this out....

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:03 pm Post subject:

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PA's return policy is probably not worth the discussion. What bookstore is going to order with only a 5% discount on high priced books from unknown authors? It's not logical. I wouldn't ask the store manager to do it.

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Someone has made it clear on the message boards that PA has a bad return policy and how it is not even "logical" for a bookstore to order from unknowns.

Ol' Fashioned Girl said:

Boy, did I help her! That's one less for them to get their hooks into!

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Great job!

I had a friend of my brother's phone today and ask about my book, so I described PublishAmerica's business plan. He was suitably shocked, and labelled PA as criminals even before I did. I thoroughly enjoyed it, since all my relatives and closer friends are sick of hearing me talk about PublishAmerica. Then my brother told me this friend of his is one the biggest gossips in London, and doubtless half the City will know about it by next week... yippeee!!! thus the word spreads!!!! who can stop the fire now?

Yes, and there was this reply...

Where did you get that figure? Pa only gives a 5% discount through Ingram? I was under the impression that Ingram received a 55% discount and that they then pass a substanial part of that discount onto the retailer. A 5% discount is not only worhtless it's counter productive. Any retailer would be offended by such a policy. This sounds like a lot of the deceptive policies coming out of Washington right now such as the precription drug benefits for seniors. Yeah, there's a drug benfit It just doesn't cover the vast majority of drugs most seniors use and the drugs that are most widely use have gone up in price more than double the discount being offered. It's not a lie, it's just highly disceptive and basically just a ripoff. I have a real issue with this kind of a ploy. I did find out today that the return policy is only available to Ingram and that if a retailer orders the book directly from PA there is no returnability but that there is a substantial discount policy. That's straightforward and I don't have any problem with that. I hope this return issue is more than just a an advertising ploy because it will ultimately discredit not only PA but all of PA's authors.

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By Jove, I think he's got it!

Joined: 07 Jan 2006
Posts: 2
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:16 pm Post subject: Returned books

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OK,try this on.Go to amazon.com and read their ad that states that they will buy back any book that you bought from them at a reduced amount.
They also state that they sell used books at a reduced price.

So what is to prevent them from selling,buying back and reselling your book a zillion times and then return it to PA thus screwing you out of your royalty?

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:44 pm Post subject:Returned books

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I would like to relate my personal experience where the return policy is concerned.

My latest release, "XXXXXXXXXXX," is classed as returnable and apparently qualifies for a 20% discount from Ingrams.

I've been trying hard to have it stocked by Chapters, the major book chain here in Canada.

This is the response I just received today from their head office:

Hello XXXXX, congratulations on having your books published.

Unfortunately, we can't consider stocking your books in our stores because of the discount offered. Both are shown on our website and are available to all customers that way.

Thank you very much.

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LOL...I think PA has a disgruntled author on the board...bet he/she will soon be banned!

Why are you all so happy with PA's explanation?

Did you read item #2 which states that any royalties paid to you from a book sale will be taken back out of your next royalty payment if the book is returned?

I don't get it.No wonder my last royalty check was for less than $1.00.

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This guy's clued-up - he'll be over here soon.

There are a few of them wising up over at PAMB about the return policy. Even some of the old-timers are beginning to see the deal.