Two POVs

The only real experience I have with multiple firsts, is from my NaNo - where I wrote the first half of the book from MMC POV, and the second half from FMC POV. So I didn't have much problem with switching back and forth...

And the FMC was introduced late in the first half, and she had such a great voice right from the get go, even just in conversation, that that's why I gave her the second half of the book.

I think a good thing to try would be to landmark voices in your mind. Like, you've written more than 1 character before, so you could maybe go, "Okay, MC1, you're going to sound like Phil from my previous book" (or whoever) and then tweak it as you write it so that it's still a unique character, and then do the same with MC2 but don't use Phil as the landmark... That's possibly what I would do.

Meanwhile, I do have one book planned which switches POVs in first chapter by chapter, so I'll be facing this problem soon enough.

Good luck.

I don't have much of a problem with it.

Just make the characters distinct and real enough that they're completely individual and unique people.

Well, I guess the 2 characters have to be different enough, otherwise they'd be the same character... Honestly, I don't have much trouble making characters sound different to each other, provided I have a good mental image of them, and know how they're likely to react to different situations.

I can't give you any advice from my own writing, but your question reminds me of the book I just finished - Audrey Niffenegger's The Time Traveler's Wife. She keeps leaping between those two characters.

I'm writing a novel, a family saga, which has two POVs, the brother and the sister. I know exactly what you mean by residue. Of course that's going to happen, but it doesn't have to be a problem. I don't think you need to distinguish between POVs by chapter. Your characters should speak for themselves, be so individual that they needn't confuse the reader as to which one is speaking when. I think it makes sense especially to have both characters switch back and forth in one chapter if they are dealing with the same event or issue. You handle that simply by pressing the return button a couple of times to show the page break. That's a universal sign that something is changing, and as long as you're clear in your opening sentence with each break whose head you're in, you're golden.

Also, I don't bother formatting my chapters until I've finished writing. When I go back to revise, I figure out the chapter sequencing based on the flow of the words. Sometimes, you'll want to end a chapter simply because it sounds or feels like a great place to stop. Other times I need to format my chapters based on the climax or the cliffhangers or whatever. Then there are some times when it is simply because the shift in POV makes a huge difference and indicating that by chapter is a strong representation of that.

I usually don't switch POV while writing in first person with every chapter. (I do with third and sometimes I switch POV with every chapter, putting four or five different characters in the POV slot before I come back to my MC. But that's me.)

You might be having trouble if the switch between characters is more for authorial artifice (I want every other chapter to be from Jane's POV) than because the narrative requires it. That in turn will effect the distinction of character voice because you'll still be wanting to carry on the story from the the "real" POV character's perspective.

The general "rule" for me is to have the POV character be whichever character has the most to lose in a scene or the most to add to a scene. (If one character has a piece of information that no one else does, for instance.)

If you're having trouble with the voices blending I would try writing as many scenes as you can in MC1's POV and then switch to MC2 when you can't take the story any further with MC1. (Knowing, of course, that there would be jumps in the story if you just write from one POV. But eventually you'll probably get to a point where you have to switch because well... you'll see. Writing's a funny thing. You'll get to a point where things will be different than you thought they would be. )

Just my two cents.

Good advice, Aggy B. I'm writing a two-person 3rd person POV right now too. The character voices seem different, but if they're not, I'll work on it.

Madison said:

So I guess my question is this: how do you guys smooth over this transition?

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Re-reading the previous scene or chapter of that POV helps me get back into their head and voice. Skip the stuff with the other POV so they stay out of your mind.

Madison said:

Do you write big chunks in one MC's head and then go back to add the chapters told from the other MC's perspective?

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I like to write chronologically, so I just jump back and forth, but there's nothing that says you can't write all of one POV, then go back and write the other. Once you have the basic story down, you can edit the flow and make sure the two sides are working together well.

Madison said:

Or do you switch back and forth (and if so, how do you do make this easy?)?

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If it isn't coming naturally to you, it might not ever be easy for you, but that's okay. Don't feel you have to force it, and just find a way that works for you. Aside from the re-reading thing I mentioned above, you might also try writing a voice primer for each character, something that has them describing themselves and their problem in their voices, so you can read that and get into their heads before you write them. Kinda like "getting into character" like actors do.

Madison said:

(and, while you're at it, I'm open to any other random pieces of advice about how to write multiple POVs )

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You might check some acting sites to see how they do it. Might give you a pointer or two or getting into the mindset of a character.

Danthia said:

You might check some acting sites to see how they do it. Might give you a pointer or two or getting into the mindset of a character.

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That's a good idea.

In order to write dialogue at all, I have to be able to get into the minds of all the characters who are talking.

If I don't have a feeling of their voice or how they would describe the scene before them, I certainly don't know what they would say or how they'd say it. I can't write a line of a character's dialogue unless I could think I could tell the whole scene from their POV in their voice.

If it's third person there shouldn't be much difficulty at all. The narrator is still the same.

If it's first person, I can see how there may be difficulty at the time of switching, so assume it's a question of discipline or just taking a breather while one changes mindsets.

Good luck.

Bufty said:

If it's third person there shouldn't be much difficulty at all. The narrator is still the same.

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Depends what kind of third person narrator and how you approach it.

My first novel is in third -- mostly -- but the voice definitely varies. A lot.

Think about how they think ,what kind of words they would use, what kind of sentences. What emotional baggage are they carrying? How do they view the world? Imagine how it feels to stand in their shoes What do they notice that is different to what you would notice and what the other characters notice? Even small things like height and age and build- just think yourself into their character. If you are still stuck listen to how different people speak and make notes - language is the key.
Hope that helps.

Music, maybe? I usually have songs that I associate with a particular character. Listening to them helps me get back into that character's head.

I''m writing a first person in two POVs.

My advise would be to concentrate on building up characters that are in contrast to each other, and thus have an impact on the reader in different ways, even while telling the same scene.

second, get through your first write. then in the first or second or whatever edit, work first only on one MC ignoring the chapters from the other. otherwise, at least for me, the residue does have a major impact.

I did two first-person POVs a couple of years or so back. What worked for me was doing a quick read of each character's last scene when needed. That was enough for me to take off in the right direction again. Writing out of order usually doesn't work too well for me, so writing one POV, then the other, wasn't a viable option.

Also, don't sweat it too much in the first draft. Get the story onto the page and then you can go back and tweak until your characters are more distinct.

how do you guys smooth over this transition?

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Can't get everything smooth the first time through. When you read the first draft, you'll notice inconsistencies in p.o.v.

Do you write big chunks in one MC's head and then go back to add the chapters told from the other MC's perspective? Or do you switch back and forth (and if so, how do you do make this easy?)?

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I write from beginning to end, so if p.o.v. alternates, then it's switching back and forth. My last novel I wrote in 3rd limited with two MC's p.o.v.'s and a third secondary character's p.o.v. The MC's were a married couple, so there was some overlap in their attitudes, a comfort with each other, and the fact that one is often thinking about the other and responding to the other.

The third p.o.v. character was a detective following the couple's trail, and she had a very different experience of the MC's. By necessity of the plot, her characterization, the p.o.v. came out radically different. Yet I haven't read the draft through yet, so I'm sure I have a lot of clean up work to solidify that differentiation.

I have three POV. I don't really get a problem about voice because the characters and their situations are so different that you can get into a mode.

It's quite fun bouncing between the three; like a tennis game.

Madison said:

I'm starting a new WIP that has two POVs. I've never done this before and my biggest problem right now is switching between voices.

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There's no one correct way to write. You have to find what works for you.
I can tell you what I do, but I can't even guess whether this is your right approach.

When I am in character POV i am inside that character. I see through the character's eyes. I feel through the character's skin. I know the character's thoughts. I don't think about how the character should sound. I don't think about technique at all in this first rough draft. I'm in the story, living the scene. I'm hearing what the folks are saying.

This slipping inside the skin of the character does not happen the day I first conceive the guy. It takes months before I know the character well enough to get inside him. I have to be patient.

It helps, in transitioning from character to character that I'm also moving from one scene to another. I'm in a different place and time. (I don't have the technical chops to transition from one POV to the other in the middle of a scene, so I plot the story accordingly.)

Madison said:

residue from MC #1 sticks around in the first part of MC#2's chapters, and vice-versa.

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I try to make the POV characters very different from one another.

Fr'instance, in Spymaster's Lady the POV characters were
(1) a nineteen-year-old girl thinking in French.
(2) a twenty-seven-year-old man thinking in upper-crust English.
(3) a twenty-year-old boy thinking in Cockney.
(4) a fifty-year-old genius.
(5) Omniscient Narrator.

None of these folks is going to sound like any other.

Not saying this is the case . . . but could your problem arise because your two POV characters are similar?

Madison said:

how do you guys smooth over this transition? Do you write big chunks in one MC's head and then go back to add the chapters told from the other MC's perspective? Or do you switch back and forth (and if so, how do you do make this easy?)?

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The basic way to write two distinct POVs -- IMO -- is to write good POV.

There's a good many books of advice on how to do POV. Stuff on the net as well.

Look here, where she's talking about an exercise on stream-of-consciousness.

Here and here and here is an exercise on stream-of-consciousness which may people find useful for slipping into POV. Example from great writers can be found here, here, and here.

There's an exercise on POV techniques here and here, with the examples here, here, and some further comments here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, and here.

And we got an exercise on visualization here, which is a writing technique helpful on getting into POV. Talking about visualization, see here, here and here.

Related to that -- another POV exercise here, here and here talks about POV and focus.


Hope some of this is useful to you.

Madison said:

I'm starting a new WIP that has two POVs. I've never done this before and my biggest problem right now is switching between voices. I know the distinctions I want between my two MC's voices, but I feel like as soon as I finally fall into one's head the chapter is over and I have to get into the other's head. And that's difficult because residue from MC #1 sticks around in the first part of MC#2's chapters, and vice-versa.

So I guess my question is this: how do you guys smooth over this transition? Do you write big chunks in one MC's head and then go back to add the chapters told from the other MC's perspective? Or do you switch back and forth (and if so, how do you do make this easy?)?

(and, while you're at it, I'm open to any other random pieces of advice about how to write multiple POVs )

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I've done this, and never really had any difficulty with it, though in 3rd-limited; I get the sense you're working in two 1st-person POVs, though you don't specify. With a couple of rare exceptions involving long scenes, I kept all the POV changes to chapter breaks, and in every case, to scene breaks. I never felt the need for any sort of "transition" in narrative. Make your POV change obvious to the reader, with POVs that are sufficiently distinctive and identifiable to each character, and you shouldn't need any.

Also, I tend to think and write in terms of scenes, and not always in linear story sequence. A couple of times I found it useful to break up a long stretch of one character's POV narrative with a stretch, written later, from the other's.

caw

Recommend Barbara Kingsolver's "The Poisonwood Bible," to see how she handles switching between multiple character POVs.