The New Never-Ending PublishAmerica Thread (NEPAT)

Memphis Ed · Feb 27, 2006

xhouseboy said:
From the PAMB
Never judge a book by its cover.

This was the same author who not too long ago was waxing lyrical about PA being staffed with angels after he got his cover design through.

I feel sorry for him, actually. I've never really experienced those sledge-hammer-type emotions before, and hope I never do. I've been down, and I've been up, but never went from all-time-high to all-time-low in such a brief space of time.

Fulfilled lifetime dreams aren't supposed to have such a short shelf life.
Only with PA.

The sorriest part of this is that the poor guy is having to ask other authors what to do as opposed to going to his publisher for answers. That simply doesn't happen anywhere else.

DaveKuzminski · Feb 27, 2006

xhouseboy said:
From the PAMB

Never judge a book by its cover.

This was the same author who not too long ago was waxing lyrical about PA being staffed with angels after he got his cover design through.

I can't help but wonder whether he's actually compared the last set of proofs with what was published to learn whether he actually made the mistake or was it PA?

James D. Macdonald · Feb 27, 2006

Is it possible to have corrections made to the text of a book after it has gone past the cover design stage.

That depends entirely on whether a) the book has been sent to LSI yet, and b) whether they feel like it.

From their PublishAtlantica site:

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Digital printing makes it technically possible to make changes to texts at any time, therefore your contract protects you against such outside tampering. You are your book’s creator, writer, and intellectual owner. That is why it is vital that you make your final draft indeed final, because even the intellectual owner cannot change the book once it has gone to print.

[/font]

Typical misleading blather, as they try to make "We're too lazy and we don't care about selling books" sound like a good thing.

mreddin · Feb 27, 2006

James D. Macdonald said:
That depends entirely on whether a) the book has been sent to LSI yet, and b) whether they feel like it.

From their PublishAtlantica site:
[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Digital printing makes it technically possible to make changes to texts at any time, therefore your contract protects you against such outside tampering. You are your book’s creator, writer, and intellectual owner. That is why it is vital that you make your final draft indeed final, because even the intellectual owner cannot change the book once it has gone to print.

[/font]
Typical misleading blather, as they try to make "We're too lazy and we don't care about selling books" sound like a good thing.

Misleading? You're being overly kind I suspect. LSI stores the book as a digital PDF file, which is loaded and printed on demand. LSI charges around $95 for a setup fee for a new titled entered into their system as a digital file by the publisher. Their operations manual states that an additional setup fee will be incurred in the event a revision is made to the title after acceptance of the final proof, billed in half hour increments. ($40.00 per half hour). So in the case of the author with an error, PA would need to front a whole $40 to fix the error in the question. I do not believe a minor revision requires a change in ISBN, so there exists no valid reason to make the necessary alteration unless PA really cares nothing for the author or his work. Ironically, if PA really was a "traditional" publisher, this senario would be more problematic because they would have printed thousands of copies of this book using offset presses, which precludes making revisions without difficult decisions.

This brings up another issue though. LSI charges $30 for "proof copies" of a title. Do you think PA takes the time to order and review a "proof" from the printer, like other publishers do?

Mike

James D. Macdonald · Feb 27, 2006

mreddin said:
This brings up another issue though. LSI charges $30 for "proof copies" of a title. Do you think PA takes the time to order and review a "proof" from the printer, like other publishers do?

I rather suspect that PA has a deal with LSI that includes price breaks. After all, PA sends 40+ titles a day over there to Lightning. I suspect that PA gets five copies of each title. They dole them out two to the author, the rest divided among BN.com, Amazon.com, Ingram (at least before Ingram stopped physically stocking POD books) and any reviewer who happened to ask.

xhouseboy · Feb 27, 2006

mreddin said:
So in the case of the author with an error, PA would need to front a whole $40 to fix the error in the question.
Mike

Do you think this could have had some bearing on their decision to redraft their contracts to include the editing options 1-2-3, as a sort of disclaimer and 'get-out-of-jail-free' card designed to solve the problems and never-ending complaints regarding their already incompetent editing services?

Shift the blame and responsibility on to the author and, ta-ra, save $40 in the process (not to mention saving on the wages of some who were already on the pay-roll impersonating 'edotors'). But make sure to sell it as an innovation that is being put in place so that that authors can have their books delivered quicker.

DaveKuzminski · Feb 27, 2006

That or they can't keep enough "editors" hired because they quickly find out what they've stepped in.

Ken Schneider · Feb 27, 2006

xhouseboy said:
Do you think? snip.Shift the blame and responsibility on to the author and...snip

I had always thought that putting the disclaimer in the front of the book was for the editing reason. "You can't blame us for how the book looks."

As they say. "If time is of no primary concern, or if we decide that additional editing is required, we assign an editor who goes through the text line by line. We don't touch style issues, we don't edit the author's voice, tone, or delivery. We edit for spelling, mechanics, grammar, and typos. In all situations, before it goes to print we send a book back to the author at least twice, to ensure that it looks exactly as the author wants it to look."

PA touts itself as an all to willing avenue for first-ever published writers. This group wouldn't have a clue what to expect, dynamics of publishing, market, or the overall book-world 's turning gears.

I am a dummy, and it has taken me over a year to even begin to grasps these things. Kudos to UJ. But, the highlighted sentence above is an out.

Something like this

"We sent back at least twice, to ensure that it looked just as you wanted it to. We gave you an oportunity to make corrections."

"I didn't know until someone who knows about editing told me about the mistakes."

"The information is clearly< snark, stated on our site. Did you read that information?"

"I read every word, but it didn't come off that way until you just cleared it up."

"We won't make any changes to the text, now. Good luck."

Honeymoon over.

And, what does a new and unseasoned writer know about how things should look? A first-timer needs direction and guidance normally provided by the publisher,"Traditional" publishers. They don't get that with PA.

We've established through the many posts to include the one just upstream, that even after publication, PA authors find that their work need more polishing.

Now, what do I do with a book such as this?

Who will buy a book of higher than average costs?

Who will buy a book from a new, never before published writer?

Who will stock a book such as this?

Have they stocked them in prior years and found that it won't sell?

One must assume that the quality of this type of editing is below standards.

Bookstores have past experience with this editing standard.

Reviewers have past experience with these editing standards.

Roadblock anyone?

Publishamericartum Letusdownium

PVish · Feb 27, 2006

Over at the PAMB

What a newbie learns in only a week: See page 3 of
http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=11427&start=30

And another who asks in his 7th post (regarding bookstore placement)

I think this is an issue. Is the problem with Barnes & Noble only or does it exist with other bookstores also?

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=11332&start=15

Answer: yeah, it exists with other bookstores. Most of them. OK, practically all.

Even Carl helps the newbies by pointing out a new problem:
http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=11516

But then there's the first post from another newbie who is singing PA's praises. I wonder how long his elation will last?
http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=11564

Better send out for more chairs. I think we can expect a crowd here in about a week.

Sparhawk · Feb 27, 2006

I just got the "Amended" version of the Publish America Contract delivered to my home this afternoon the "Non-exclusive" deal. I just don't F'ing get it. I don't plan on buying any of my books, the're certainly not selling.. WTF is the point of keeping it.

Does PA just want to rub my face in it? I just don't get it? Why would they want to keep a book that's not selling.. just to hurt me?

Well, I guess they succeeded, I was kinda hoping it was the "kiss of dismiss". I guess it's time to write another tone letter.

Gravity · Feb 27, 2006

Sparhawk said:
I just got the "Amended" version of the Publish America Contract delivered to my home this afternoon the "Non-exclusive" deal. I just don't F'ing get it. I don't plan on buying any of my books, the're certainly not selling.. WTF is the point of keeping it.

Does PA just want to rub my face in it? I just don't get it? Why would they want to keep a book that's not selling.. just to hurt me?

Well, I guess they succeeded, I was kinda hoping it was the "kiss of dismiss". I guess it's time to write another tone letter.

Spar, you're experiencing exactly what I did a year ago. Last January (2005) I'd emailed PA regarding my desire to have my rights returned. What they sent back was that "amended" contract. I took one look at it, snorted a "yeah, right" laugh, and sent them another email, saying what they sent wasn't what I wanted. For that I got the same snotty autoreply everyone gets.

I started really becoming vocal on the writers' boards then. And then, last Saturday, I got a letter granting me total release,and full return of my rights. No contract paragraphs were cited; simply that.

Why me? And why now? I dunno. But something, deep inside, tells me things in Frederick aren't happy right now. I've stated before, that in any scam, there comes a "tipping point." And when that point is reached, things for the scammers tend to fall apart very quickly indeed. Perhaps we're there...

John

DaveKuzminski · Feb 27, 2006

John, it's an almost foregone conclusion that PA would implode when the weight of its authors exceeds the capacity of its structure. PA is at that point now.

It doesn't matter how many other publishers or printers it compares itself to as having more or fewer authors. What matters is those others don't have more complaints than the number of sales for their best selling book.

mdin · Feb 27, 2006

The small-town monthly newspaper The Gazette, which is owned and edited by a PA author, just posted their story about Publishamerica on their website. It claims to have a physical circulation of 4,000.

Gabriele · Feb 27, 2006

PVish said:
What a newbie learns in only a week: See page 3 of
http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=11427&start=30

That's the writing teacher, isn't he? He should try to get out of that; he can write coherent prose, and that'll get him on the top 10% of any slush pile of a real publisher or agent.

Better send out for more chairs. I think we can expect a crowd here in about a week.

ResearchGuy · Feb 27, 2006

XThe NavigatorX said:
The small-town monthly newspaper The Gazette, which is owned and edited by a PA author, just posted their story about Publishamerica on their website. It claims to have a physical circulation of 4,000.

Of note:

Interestingly, Mr. Clopper has yet to publish his own book.

Sure. Not going to submit it to PA. He knows what PA is.

And this:

They don’t charge you money to print your books.

Nonsense. Of course they do--at a hefty markup over what Lightning Source charges them--if you want any copies after the first two.

--Ken

Canada James · Feb 27, 2006

James D. Macdonald said:
That depends entirely on whether a) the book has been sent to LSI yet, and b) whether they feel like it.

Actually, it's entirely (b). I managed to get them to change the text in my book, both inside and on the cover after it had been "out" for several months.

Canada James

Sheryl Nantus · Feb 27, 2006

ooh... wonder if I can get mine to say "Don't buy PA books! Especially this one!"

TracySutterer & GaryRogers · Feb 27, 2006

Sparhawk said:
I just got the "Amended" version of the Publish America Contract delivered to my home this afternoon the "Non-exclusive" deal."

Sparhawk,

Argile just got that "Amended" version through certified mail too. There is no way he will sign it either.

These PA people are very sick individuals. If (like you said in an earlier post) they let me go in order to drive a wedge between Argile and I, they are even sicker than I ever gave them credit for. This situation has done nothing but bring Argile and I closer together.

My best wishes to you, Sparhawk, as always,

Tracy

Gravity · Feb 27, 2006

Tracy, that's terrible. To put a guy like Argile, whose health is already shaky, though this is unbelievable. Truly, these guys are bastids of the first water. Lord, haste the day they're gone forever. Again, to paraphrase Ben-Hur, "The day Rome (read

A) falls, there will be a cry of freedom as the world has never heard."

John

TracySutterer & GaryRogers · Feb 27, 2006

Thank you, John. I agree with every word of what you just posted. Argile called PA right after he read through the agreement. Jessica Lewis had "just left the building." Sure she had. These people have no honor or guts. They tell their secretaries to say that crap because they have no honor or guts to talk to their authors directly. The last time I called and asked to talk to Jessica Lewis the lady on the phone told me that Ms. Lewis didn't have a phone that she could be reached on. Now, she just left the building? I guess she just got a phone put in her office since she didn't have one before? These people are beyond description and they must truly believe that their authors are the most stupid people on the planet.

Tracy

writerjenn · Feb 27, 2006

Seething right now too

My most recent request for release of contract was denied again. Big surprise. However, it's not the denial that has me so friggin' pissed, it's the attitude that went along with the denial.

"Since we continue to promote your work by making it available to a worldwide audience through an ever increasing number and array of venues, it will be our pleasure and privilege to keep the book under contract.
The call to invoke Par. 24 of your contract is ours to make, and currently we see no reason to do so.
Congratulations on being, and staying, a published author!

Thank you,
Author Support Team
[email protected]"

Isn't that sweet? They're working hard to promote my little novel, which means placing it in online stores. Wow. I'm so impressed. And because of them, I'm still published... ooooo be still my beating heart.
Funny, I thought my REAL publishers were the reason I remain a published author.

Anyway, I'm trying to relax a bit before I go off half-cocked and write a tone letter of my own.

Jenn

James D. Macdonald · Feb 27, 2006

writerjenn said:
Anyway, I'm trying to relax a bit before I go off half-cocked and write a tone letter of my own.

Write a tone letter to the American Arbitration Association. It'll be more likely to get the results you want.

Nexusman · Feb 27, 2006

writerjenn said:
Congratulations on being, and staying, a published author!

It's a mind game. They're implying here that you'll be happier if they still have totalitarian control over your contract -- and that you'll no longer be a published author if they decide to let you go.

-Nick

James D. Macdonald · Feb 27, 2006

I'm not a lawyer, and I don't play one on TV.

You should definitely run this past a real lawyer, a guy who passed his bar exam, who knows publishing law:

Implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing A general assumption of the law of contracts, that people will act in good faith and deal fairly without breaking their word, using shifty means to avoid obligations, or denying what the other party obviously understood. A lawsuit (or one of the causes of action in a lawsuit) based on the breach of this covenant is often brought when the other party has been claiming technical excuses for breaching the contract or using the specific words of the contract to refuse to perform when the surrounding circumstances or apparent understanding of the parties were to the contrary.

In at least one case, AAA arbitration determined that PA is in violation of this covenant. PublishAmerica's deceptive advertising and weasel-worded contract --and a lot more -- would be relevant. Violation of the covenant may permit any and every author under contract with PA to win a termination of the contract if they choose to take the necessary steps.

ResearchGuy · Feb 27, 2006

Painful reality sinking in

An ouch from the PAMB:

I was having success with a local chain store, but the recent instituted PA return policy tied to a five percent discount has ruined
that option. Bookstores need about a 50% discount to survive or so I'm told; consequently, with the exception of a few fragmented avenues such as consignment in independents, flea markets, flower shops, dependent on the kindness of strangers, I am done.

Best of luck to you on whatever you decide. Spend only the money you can afford to lose.

From the oft-quoted Carl ... see it while it lasts at http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=11559

--Ken

The New Never-Ending PublishAmerica Thread (NEPAT)

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