The New Never-Ending PublishAmerica Thread (NEPAT)

PA finally gave me my rights back!

Hello all. It's been quite a while since I posted here. I've been trying to put my PA experiences behind me, to move on. Many of you probably don't know who I am or my story. I'll give you a quickie review. My first novel, a fantasy entitled, Moonsword, was released by PA in late 2002. I promoted like crazy, got some national tv exposure, lots of tv and radio time, plenty of newspaper coverage. PA kept promising to help with promotion, but they never did, of course. Due to my promotional efforts the book was nominated for the 2004 Spectrum Award. Eventually, I wised up, realized PA was a scam, and hired a lawyer. We filed a repudiation of contract based on their false claims. They ignored this and continued selling my book. Sadly, partially due to the expenses I encurred in my promotional efforts, our finances failed and we were left with no alternative but to file bankruptcy (the bigger reason was monumental medical expenses, but I would be lying to say that book promotion expenses didn't play a considerable part in our debt). I have since had some more modest success with my second novel with a small publisher, but nonetheless, my literary confidence was shattered. I am still trying to recover it, even now.

Anyway, PA was scheduled on the bankruptcy. It went through, thereby destroying, in a completely legal manner, my PA contract. Still, they continued to sell my book, now completely illegally, since November 2005.

So, it was with great surprise that I discovered that I had received a certified letter from PA returning all rights to Moonsword to me, citing paragraph 26 of my contract...lack of demand. They claimed to have no copies on hand as of 2/27/06 the date of my formal rights return.

I have to admit, I'm still in shock from this surprise. Finally after years of fighting them...they just up and gave the rights back. My book is no longer listed on their website, and Ingrams has only one copy left in stock. At long last, it is over...

...it's about time they figured out how to do so effectively and efficiently...

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Oh, but they have. They don't want you to cash your check at all. That's money that stays in their account.

Aconite said:

Is anyone else puzzled over the timing of this? I've never had anything make it to the UK from the US in just two or three days. Unless PA is mailing overseas checks before they're mailing domestic ones--and why would they do that?--this author got a check in a surprisingly short time.

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Actually, post -even small packages - between the US and Uk is surprisingly quick these days; 2 - 3 days indeed.

aruna said:

Actually, post -even small packages - between the US and Uk is surprisingly quick these days; 2 - 3 days indeed.

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I'm surprised. Mine usually take about a week, coming or going. Thanks for the information, aruna.

On the back of my PA royalty check (for $0.00), it has a list of "Frequently Asked Royalty Statement Questions" that explains all the terms of the statement.

The most interesting paragraph was the one that explains "Returned Books" under the Retail Discount heading.


What is "Returned Books"? Publish America allows bookstores to return unsold copies for reimbursement. Royalties for those books have been extended to you in this or a previous statement. Because the returned books were in fact not sold afterall, we have refunded all monies received, and those un-earned royalty amounts are now subtracted from your gross total.


For those of you who know more about the publishing biz than I do, is this standard practice for traditional publishers? I thought returns were on the publisher?

No, it's not standard. In the grown-up publishing world, authors' royalty statments relfect a "reserve against returns." Which means that even though a book may have sold, they EXPECT some to be returned, and hold a portion of the royalties back, just in case. Many times, the first royalty period after release, the RAR is 100%. Meaning, you get nuttin, even though you may have earned some royalties. It goes down to 75% the next cycle, and so forth until you actually do get some money, like 2 years after release. Of course ,you probably got an advance, so it's not like you aren't getting something.

Now, since I didn't get an advance, and my publisher sells books through their website as well as through distributors, any books that have been ordered but not sold (read: paid for by distributor) show up as "Pending sales". I can see how many are out there.

Only PA pays you for books, then takes the money back.

Lisa Y said:

On the back of my PA royalty check (for $0.00), it has a list of "Frequently Asked Royalty Statement Questions" that explains all the terms of the statement.

The most interesting paragraph was the one that explains "Returned Books" under the Retail Discount heading.


What is "Returned Books"? Publish America allows bookstores to return unsold copies for reimbursement. Royalties for those books have been extended to you in this or a previous statement. Because the returned books were in fact not sold afterall, we have refunded all monies received, and those un-earned royalty amounts are now subtracted from your gross total.


For those of you who know more about the publishing biz than I do, is this standard practice for traditional publishers? I thought returns were on the publisher?

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Does they give an accounting of the returned books? Or are you just to trust them?

LOL! I just looked at what I wrote and realized how silly that sentence is!

Lisa Y said:

What is "Returned Books"? Publish America allows bookstores to return unsold copies for reimbursement. Royalties for those books have been extended to you in this or a previous statement. Because the returned books were in fact not sold afterall, we have refunded all monies received, and those un-earned royalty amounts are now subtracted from your gross total.

For those of you who know more about the publishing biz than I do, is this standard practice for traditional publishers? I thought returns were on the publisher?

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Didn't we all see this one coming when PA made their books "returnable"? Look, another PA BS reason why your royalites are so low!

Lisa, it's standard policy for commercial* publishers to keep a "reserve against returns" for a royalty period. Given all the ways PA's model differs from commercial publishers', though, PA's answer is a crock. For one thing, PA says, "Because the returned books were in fact not sold afterall [sic], we have refunded all monies received." This is not how returns work with commercial publishers, and it's sure as hell not how they work with PA.

*"Traditional publisher" was coined by PA. It's meaningless. Commercial publishers are those whose business model is based on selling to consumers instead of authors.

endless rewrite said:

Hot off the PAMB


You have to be quick with these, PA is removing all negative posts/questions/details about royalties ASAP.
I've noticed in the last month or so a definite switch to a more negative, cynical mood in the PAMB. Removing any discussion or questions about the poor royalty cheques may well be the final nail in the coffin for some PA authors.

I can hear the sound of pennies dropping, but then again that might be royalty cheques being cashed.

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I responded to the poor guy from the UK, but the thread disappeared in record time. If you blinked, you missed it...

Lisa Y said:

What is "Returned Books"? Publish America allows bookstores to return unsold copies for reimbursement. Royalties for those books have been extended to you in this or a previous statement. Because the returned books were in fact not sold afterall, we have refunded all monies received, and those un-earned royalty amounts are now subtracted from your gross total.

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This is going to make it even harder to be sure PA has payed the correct amount of royalties.

Tilly said:

This is going to make it even harder to be sure PA has payed the correct amount of royalties.

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Almost similar to how crooks hide their ill-gotten gains when laundering; create a paper trail, make it as difficult as hell to track or understand.

Lisa Y said:

What is "Returned Books"? Publish America allows bookstores to return unsold copies for reimbursement. Royalties for those books have been extended to you in this or a previous statement. Because the returned books were in fact not sold afterall, we have refunded all monies received, and those un-earned royalty amounts are now subtracted from your gross total.


For those of you who know more about the publishing biz than I do, is this standard practice for traditional publishers? I thought returns were on the publisher?

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If you're asking, do I see negative amounts on my royalty statements because of returned books, the answer is YES. It does get a tad annoying when the book was sold serveral years ago, and they're taking back money. But, that's the way it goes.

Susan G.

James D. Macdonald said:

Ellora's Cave, an e-book publisher, is listed as a RITA-award eligible publisher by RWA.

PublishAmerica isn't.

Think about that, when you're thinking about who's published and who isn't.

(Actually, when you delve into their history, PublishAmerica was an e-book publisher briefly. They dropped that when they discovered that they couldn't get their own authors to buy multiple copies of their own e-books.)

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Ellora's Cave is quite a success story. If PA was looking to see how to do it, Ellora's Cave would be a good model. They began as only publishing e-Books, but have long since branched out into trade paperbacks. (And have been learning that trade pbs in actual bookstores need to be looked at differently than their ebook market - for example, they are changing their covers to better reflect what's needed/wanted in a bookstore setting. i.e. they're not quite as graphic as they used to be.)

Ellora's Cave found a niche (erotic romance) and marketing greatly to their target readers. They discovered that women were actually more likely to buy an ebook to satisfy their craving for this sort of book because it has a reduced embarassment factor - no taking the book up to a cashier who's going to smirk at your reading choice.

They worked hard on getting their books to READERS, not on selling copies of the books to their authors.

I've heard that some of their more prolific authors who specialize in the subgenres that sell the best (one of which is BDSM from what I hear) are making annual 6-figure "salaries." And I believe they pay royalties monthly. That's a far cry from the royalty checks the PA authors are seeing. (Heck, it's a far cry from the royalty checks I see! <G>)

So, to the person who thought PA was a better option than a small press or an ebook press, nope. And Ellora's Cave, as Uncle Jim pointed out, is RWA approved, which means they've sold a minimum standard of books. PA doesn't qualify to get RWA approval.

(Anyone interested in hearing more about how a publisher makes adjustments to their market, there happens to be an interview up today about Ellora's Cave. It's an interview of a couple of their head editors. EDITORS!!! Real editors. There's another difference. http://www.smartbitchestrashybooks.com/index.php)

Susan G.

Susan Gable said:

If you're asking, do I see negative amounts on my royalty statements because of returned books, the answer is YES. It does get a tad annoying when the book was sold serveral years ago, and they're taking back money. But, that's the way it goes.

Susan G.

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Hmmm. Yes, it is discouraging to see those negative figures on a statement, but under my contracts, Harlequin doesn't actually take it back, unless there is income for that book to take it out of.

I'm getting the final (I suspect) statements on foreign editions of one of my Desires. There has been a reserve against returns being steadly distributed. On the last statement, the report showed a negative royalty of -- (making this up because I'm too unawake yet to go downstairs to the filing cabinet) $1.12. That amount will hang there until H/S releases another foreign edition, at which time it will be deducted from any royalties. What will not happen, is it will not be deducted from the royalties due on any of my other books for them. Oh, and while royalties for Desires are not as good as they were a few years ago, the total amount for this book is still in the five figures (all on one side of the decimal point), not the pitiful pennies PA is reporting.

My statement also tell me how many books I am being paid for, and how many are being held in reserve. I can check that against the statement for the last period, and next period I can check the new statement against this one. Also not like what I've been hearing about PA's reporting.

Mo

(Grrrrrrr...Should be-->It's clear when READING the PAMB

Diana, it's sad a bankruptcy would have to null a contract to get your rights back but I am certainly proud you can move forward and get legitimate publisher to do what should have been done in the first place...promote, promote, promote. Sure PA can spout your books are not in demand or selling but it's just another ploy on their part to say, "Look what PA did, we gave back the rights. It's not our fault." According to PA, nothing is ever their fault but look on the bright side. It's clear when readiang the PAMB, many of their so called "happy" authors are doing a mutiny and speaking up about their tactics. There couldn't be this many people (authors) speaking out against PA if something wasn't drastically wrong. Their rose colored glasses are fogging up and it won't be long before the glasses shatter.

I hope you are doing well and no more medical expenses cloud your sunny disposition.

Joyce Rapier
BeeBomb

Diana Hignutt said:

So, it was with great surprise that I discovered that I had received a certified letter from PA returning all rights to Moonsword to me, citing paragraph 26 of my contract...lack of demand. They claimed to have no copies on hand as of 2/27/06 the date of my formal rights return.

I have to admit, I'm still in shock from this surprise. Finally after years of fighting them...they just up and gave the rights back. My book is no longer listed on their website, and Ingrams has only one copy left in stock. At long last, it is over...

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Diana,

That's wonderful! Another PA captive set free!

Here is the happy dance - just for you!



Nancy

MMo said:

Hmmm. Yes, it is discouraging to see those negative figures on a statement, but under my contracts, Harlequin doesn't actually take it back, unless there is income for that book to take it out of.

Mo

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Mo, my books are still current enough that there's usually enough dribbling in for them to take the dribble out. <G>

Nice to know that they won't do that if there's no dribble coming in on it.

Oh, and yes, Harlequin's royalty statements are very clear and easy to read. Excellent. I'm sure much easier to decipher than what PA ships out.

Susan G.

The more I read here, the more I'm convinced that PA is going to collapse under the weight of its many and various ways of making the authors feel like crap. Having a business model that concentrates on getting the authors to buy their own books is one thing, but you add in the nasty attitude and sub-scams (not paying royalties owed, selling books they have no right to sell, muddying the waters with their unworkable returns scheme) and it opens too many cracks that an enterprising author could fit a crowbar through.

If it were only about money, they might have stuck to just getting authors to buy their own books. But it's about making people feel bad. They take pleasure in it, so they keep thinking of new ways to do it. That may be their ultimate downfall.

I found one of their books shelved in our local walden's bookstore, but as somebodyelse aid earlier, the author most likely did their own marketing.

Tilly said:

I've never come across any reference to PA having a policy of printing 2000 books offset as an initial print run. The vast majority of PA books sell in double or low triple figures, so I doubt this is the case.
Books being available in bookstores merely means someone can go into a store and order your book. It doesn't mean being shelved in bookstores.
I strongly recommend you read these threads:
http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26537
http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10211
http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20586

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Diana Hignutt said:

Hello all. It's been quite a while since I posted here. I've been trying to put my PA experiences behind me, to move on. <<SNIPPED>>
I have to admit, I'm still in shock from this surprise. Finally after years of fighting them...they just up and gave the rights back. My book is no longer listed on their website, and Ingrams has only one copy left in stock. At long last, it is over...

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My dear friend Diana!,

I am so happy for you !! I wish you all the best in your future writing. Don't let Publish America extinguish your flame of writing brilliance. You are a great talent that deserves to be seen and appreciated by many.

Be well,

-Sparhawk

Tilly said:

This is going to make it even harder to be sure PA has payed the correct amount of royalties.

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The PAMB moderater must be busy person today...nothing being discussed about royalties.

I imagine we'll get quite busy here shortly.

Right Jim

James D. Macdonald said:

Oh, but they have. They don't want you to cash your check at all. That's money that stays in their account.

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If my check is only 2 cents I am cashing it. That's 2 cents they don't get to keep, and you know a bunch of 2 cents adds up, so CASH THOSE CHECKS!


I received a 1099 misc form from PA. Now I do all my husbands and my taxes and I send out 1099 misc but not unless it's $600.00 or over. I wonder why PA is sending these out. Mine was like $39.00. I wonder if it's different in the book business or if they just don't know this? Looks like a lot of work for nothing.

Bonnie

Bonnie Gibson said:

If my check is only 2 cents I am cashing it. That's 2 cents they don't get to keep, and you know a bunch of 2 cents adds up, so CASH THOSE CHECKS

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Commercial banking accounts also have a per-item charge, so in addition to the 2 cents, they'll lose another dime or so for the transaction.

LloydBrown said:

Commercial banking accounts also have a per-item charge, so in addition to the 2 cents, they'll lose another dime or so for the transaction.

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All the more reason to cash those $0.00 checks after you scan them for posterity. So, if the bank teller looks at you like you're crazy, just remind them that PA gets to pay the transaction fee and you're getting back at them.

Royalties...what a joke!!

Well, well, well....the bad news is in yet again.

Today I received my 4th royalty statement for my first book and the 1st statement for my second book.

Book #1 supposedly sold 12 copies at source other than PA @40%off
made all of $11.43 To date it means supposedly sold only 66 copies for a grand total of $112.71 in royalties since June 2004. This does not count the books I bought and sold.

Book #2 released September 26, 2005. sold 22 copies; 7 were apparently through PA due to their letters going to the few family I sent it way back when @ 15% off. Made all of $9.48. The remaining 16 were sold elsewhere @ 40% off and made a total of $14.35. Grand total of $23.83. I DID NOT nor will not buy any copies of my second book.

To date for 2 books I have made a grand total of $136.54 in royalties.

Note I say supposedly as to the number of books sold...since I have no way of verifying I am left to PA's figures though after all the time spent promoting and funds I expending doing it I find the figures hard to believe.

In some ways I am glad I did buy 160 copies of my first book @ 50% off as I was able to sell each of them at my speaking engagements for $20.00 each.

If I am able to get out of my contract I will temporarily go to Lullu and sell that way....why shouldn't I make the money since I know I can sell them at speaking engagements.

This will only be temporary as I will then rewrite the two books....combining into one and attempt to get a real publisher this time!!

Peace,
Larry~