Historical Biography Forum?

chasbaz · Feb 23, 2011

I'd like to ask that there be a separate room for historical biographies.
One easy qualification is that the subject should be dead, perhaps for a specific number of years.

It would be nice if people (like me) who are writing such a thing could meet and post without wading through all of the contemporary memoirs and autobiographies, which seem to be what 95% of people here are writing.

There are different techniques involved in writing historical biographies and they are usually aimed at a different audience, so they should be treated separately in my view.

Thanks in advance for your consideration and opinions.

I posted this in the bio/mem genre but was advised to post it here too

firedrake · Feb 23, 2011

There is a Historical forum filled with very knowledgeable people.

I don't think there's anything to stop you posting there just because you're interested in the non-fiction side of Historical writing

Is that any use to you?

chasbaz · Feb 23, 2011

firedrake said:
There is a Historical forum filled with very knowledgeable people.

I don't think there's anything to stop you posting there just because you're interested in the non-fiction side of Historical writing

Is that any use to you?

I did post this there too ;-)
However, just as the bio/mem forum is full of contemporary memoirs, so is the Historical forum full of fiction. I made the request so that I (and others) wouldn't have to wade through these other posts.

I'm not suggesting that the members aren't knowledgeable....

JudyS · Mar 2, 2011

I think the problem is that there just aren't many beginning writers who are working on biographies (as opposed to memoirs or autobiographies.) So far, I've found only three biography writers here on AW -- you, me, and Tippecanoe1841, who wrote a self-published bio of Pres. William Henry Harrison. And, I don't fit the category "historical biography," because I'm writing about Michael Jackson, who just died in 2009.

It would be great to have contact with other biography writers, but I don't think there's enough of us here to start a new forum. If we could find maybe 10 biography writers, that might be enough for a Yahoo or Google group, maybe. Starting a thread here for biography (not memoir or autobiography) writers would also be good. Why don't you start one? I'd be interested in hearing what your biography is about, why you chose to write it, and how far along you are.

JudyS · Mar 2, 2011

Oh, I forgot to mention AW member Sunnyside, who is probably the most successful biographer here on AW! His current book is about Jim Henson, so that probably isn't historical, either. (Although he also wrote a book about Washington Irving, so that would be a historical biography.)

chasbaz · Mar 2, 2011

Only three of us? I am surprised how few people choose to research and write about others. I suppose the historical bit doesn't matter too much, since there are many similar techniques used in contemporary biography. However, research may be much harder if, like me, you are writing about someone who died 180 years ago. I guess I am odd, but modern biography doesn't interest me. I can't explain why. I suppose I'm just immersed in the Georgian era. I started this one through an interest in family history, and it 'just growed' from there. It wasn't originally meant to be more than a family document, but the connection with royalty and my discovery of a great deal of previously unpublished data has made it what it is today, which is a story of much broader (though still niche) interest.
One thing I did find was how useful it is to have your own blog while you are writing. Not only is it useful for trying out small chunks of the story, so you blog it first and then plug it into the book afterwards, but the contacts I have made in the process will all help when the book is finally ready. I think joining BIO was a very good move, and I am already getting hits on my blog site from there.
My blog is at http://chasbaz.posterous.com/
I'd be most interested in comparing notes with you, especially on how to get all the data you collect into a readable form. I write quite fluently (what joy to just be writing a novel and just let it flow out!) but constructing the thing sentence by sentence is like pulling teeth.

JudyS said:
I think the problem is that there just aren't many beginning writers who are working on biographies (as opposed to memoirs or autobiographies.) So far, I've found only three biography writers here on AW -- you, me, and Tippecanoe1841, who wrote a self-published bio of Pres. William Henry Harrison. And, I don't fit the category "historical biography," because I'm writing about Michael Jackson, who just died in 2009.

It would be great to have contact with other biography writers, but I don't think there's enough of us here to start a new forum. If we could find maybe 10 biography writers, that might be enough for a Yahoo or Google group, maybe. Starting a thread here for biography (not memoir or autobiography) writers would also be good. Why don't you start one? I'd be interested in hearing what your biography is about, why you chose to write it, and how far along you are.

JudyS · Mar 6, 2011

chasbaz said:
Only three of us? I am surprised how few people choose to research and write about others.....

Well, I originally left out Sunnyside, so there are at least four biographers here. I only became active here recently, so it could be that there are other biographers and I just haven't found them, although I did use the search facility a fair amount to try to find biography threads.

chasbaz said:
I write quite fluently (what joy to just be writing a novel and just let it flow out!) but constructing the thing sentence by sentence is like pulling teeth.

I wonder if the difficulty of researching and writing biography is one of the reasons why there are so few biographers here? I was really relieved to hear you say that you find writing biography difficult! My biography of Michael Jackson is the first book I've worked on, and I have found writing it to be extraordinarily difficult. I'm writing because I feel compelled to share my ideas, rather than because I enjoy the writing process. I keep hearing from novelists who say how much they enjoy writing, and I felt like there was something wrong with me!

I think one of the reasons writing biography is so difficult is because there are so many constraints on what you can say. A good biography is accurate, but at the same time has many of the elements of a good novel--plot tension, character development, foreshadowing. Doing all this can be difficult if the subject's life didn't have a smooth narrative arc!

I feel that the key is choosing the proper order for telling the different aspects of the subject's life story. Most people have multiple things happening simultaneously in their lives, but a writer can only talk about things one at a time. For example, in his early twenties, Michael Jackson's career was taking off, but at the same time he was having conflicts with his brothers, developing health problems, and feeling increasing tension between his strict religious beliefs and his career as an entertainer.

To address the problem of multiple events happening at the same time, I try to emphasize one theme for each chapter. My book is organized chronologically, but I mostly talk about his soaring career in the chapter where he's 20 to 21 years old, then I mostly talk about increasing conflicts with his family and religion in the chapter where he's 22 to 23, and so forth. By doing this, I can create a narrative arc while sticking to the facts. It's still difficult to find the words to accurately convey my ideas, but at least I know what to focus on!

chasbaz · Mar 6, 2011

Very interesting observations, and I feel a kinship with you and a sympathy!

There are a couple of dichotomies that beset all biographers and you have mentioned them both - whether to be strictly chronological, and how much like a novel to make it.
For example, most books about Prinny are chronological but a refreshing more recent one is Steven Parissien's Prince of Pleasure. This does cover different areas of his life in separate chapters - more like a collection of essays I suppose. However, I think he could only enjoy the luxury of such an approach when there were already many conventional biographies out there.
It's important also to match your style to your audience. In your book the audience is entirely different from mine and I think therefore that you have to pitch it in a more popular and readable style.
I think the approach you have chosen sounds excellent. You need freedom to move about, and as long as you can somehow keep a thread of continuity going it will be fine.
There are many layers in my book, and weaving them all together without making it disjointed is a problem. I just have to keep adding the extra data in though. At some point I expect to have to insert 'bridges' so as to lead from one subject to another. A further layer yet to be added is what was going on in the historical background at the time. I think what I will do for that is to just put something (maybe in italics) at the start of each chapter to sort of set the scene.
I have in some places gone off on another thread. This worked OK I think, and after a time I would write something like: 'in our American adventures we have got ahead of the story, so it's now necessary to backtrack and describe what was going on in the meantime back home'.

Anyway, just my musings. Despite the differences in period and subject I hope we have much common ground where we can encourage the other (and anyone else in the same boat).

bulldoggerel · Jul 7, 2012

Biography word count

I have just finished a fiction novel which is entering the vortex of agent world, but I have also been working on a biography non-fiction. I am pretty far along but am worriedabout my word count which I believe will be around 160,000. Everyone seems to say all these books need to be around 100K but no way, I mean my person lived to be 86 years old and lived through several major historical events. When I look at other bios in bookstores- these seem to be big books. Does anyone know that general or accepted rule on this?

Sunnyside · Jul 9, 2012

Hi Bull --

I wouldn't worry too much about word count at the moment -- and 160K is NOT an unreasonable length. For my first book, my word count, with end notes, was about 160,000 -- that's about 450 pages, which isn't bad at all. Now, if you get into the 200s, then you might be pushing it. But worry about what's needed to tell your story at the moment, and don't over think the length. At least not yet.

bulldoggerel · Jul 9, 2012

Sunnyside said:
Hi Bull --

I wouldn't worry too much about word count at the moment -- and 160K is NOT an unreasonable length. For my first book, my word count, with end notes, was about 160,000 -- that's about 450 pages, which isn't bad at all. Now, if you get into the 200s, then you might be pushing it. But worry about what's needed to tell your story at the moment, and don't over think the length. At least not yet.

Thanks. Good to know from one who has been there. Ordinary fiction, I would not be tempted to try and cover a long time period, but in biograpy you've got a lot of info to cover, especially if your subject was not someone like Lady Diana or JFK Jr. If you die young, then it is easy to be magazine article length

erinbee · Nov 17, 2012

Just raising my hand...I'm a biographer.

Pup · Dec 4, 2012

erinbee said:
Just raising my hand...I'm a biographer.

Just wanted to raise my hand too. Started out, unsuccessfully, trying to publish historical fiction, then found I had better luck with a nonfiction historical biography, and am now working on another.

Historical Biography Forum?

chasbaz

firedrake

practical experience, FTW

chasbaz

JudyS

Nonfiction Fanatic

JudyS

Nonfiction Fanatic

chasbaz

JudyS

Nonfiction Fanatic

chasbaz

bulldoggerel

Let Them Eat Crow

Sunnyside

bulldoggerel

Let Them Eat Crow

erinbee

slanted and enchanted

Pup

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