What to do, what to do...

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ResearchGuy

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. . . writers no longer need a publisher to do that. . . . .
True if you mean "no longer need a commercial publishing company." But even a self-publisher, and even if using e-format rather than print, is a publisher. Publishing is the process of making the work public. If the work is not published, it is by definition not available to the public.

--Ken
 

James D. Macdonald

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But it seems that are you saying that commercial publishing is the superset and that self-publishing is contained within commercial publishing. Was that what you meant?

Exactly. Self-publishing is a part of commercial publishing (rather than, say, vanity publishing).

Then looking to position myself for the best chance at success.

Then pretend that you're publishing the works of Joseph P. Blow. What do you need to do to publish his works successfully? Line up all of those items.

What do you need to do to entice Joe to publish with you? Make that offer.

Very good! Now substitute in your name for Joe Blow's, and do all of the things you would have done for Joe (including paying him his royalties).

To be a successful self-publisher you have to be a little bit schizo. There's as much emphasis on "publishing" as there is on "self." And money still has to flow toward the author (even if the money is only moving from one pocket to another in the same pair of pants).

If you can't see a way to put 15% of the cover price of each copy sold into a savings account labeled "retirement fund," maybe self-publishing isn't for you.

Oh yeah, and don't gamble with money you can't afford to lose.
 

HapiSofi

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DG Sandru: Actually, big publishers tried to do something about the book market. Five big Publishers and Apple tried price fixing under the agency model. See more about class action suit at: http://www.hbsslaw.com/cases-and-investigations/ebooks
I don't know quite how to tell you this, DG, but everything you know is wrong.
Jim's got a point.

Sandru, what that link says is that Hagens Berman has filed a lawsuit alleging price-fixing by publishers. That doesn't make it an established fact. Hagens Berman doesn't appear to know jack about publishing. Maybe they're gambling that they'll find something sufficiently odd-looking during discovery to justify their fishing expedition, or just hoping that someone will pay them to go away.

From their site:
Hagens Berman has filed a nationwide class-action lawsuit claiming that Apple Inc. and five of the nation’s top publishers, including HarperCollins Publishers, Hachette Book Group, Macmillan Publishers, Penguin Group Inc. and Simon & Schuster Inc. illegally fix prices of electronic books, also known as e-books.
Malarkey. Those organizations pursue a wide variety of pricing strategies, and there's been no perceptible coordination in their various interactions with Amazon. What they're fighting over is the right to set their own prices on their own books. It's an extremely important point. The lion's share of a trade publisher's income is made on early sales of bestselling hardcovers. That profit pays for everything they do, including publishing all those other books by non-bestselling authors.

I noticed a while back, in one of your murkier contributions to this discussion, that you compared conventional publishing to the music industry. That's a big error. I'll just point out three of their many differences:

1. The music industry coped with change and market pressures by limiting their lists to a relatively small number of established bestselling acts, plus an occasional new breakthrough act that appealed to the same audience. Book publishers have tended to publish any book that has enough appeal to some identifiable audience for it to be published without losing too much money. This tendency is one of the main reasons that trade book publishing is perennially a low-profit industry.

2. Just about everything a music publisher does for a record or an artist -- recording, post-production, packaging, advertising, promotion, touring, distribution, warehousing, accounting, you name it -- gets charged against the artists' royalties. In book publishing, everything the publisher does for the book or the author comes out of the publisher's share. That long list of goods and services is a big part of what initial hardcover bestseller income pays for.

How did the music industry come to such a pass? That's a complicated story. but a lot of it had to do with the next difference in the list.

3. The music industry let their product get used as a loss leader by general retailers. Trade publishing is doing their best to fight that.

You're probably confused by now, so here's an analogy: at the start of Christmas season, Wal-Mart announces that it will be selling a select list of hardcover bestsellers for ten bucks each. Say there's a non-B&N bookstore just down the road from a Wal-Mart. The bookstore carries a hundred times as many titles. They're in business all year. They provide all kinds of services for their customers. However, it's the profit they make during the Christmas season that keeps the bookstore afloat, and a big chunk of that profit comes from hardcover bestsellers bought as gifts.

Wal-Mart doesn't give a damn about books or readers. What they're doing isn't "pro-consumer pricing." They're trying to get the person who was planning to buy a few $27.95 hardcovers as Christmas presents to instead come to their store for those ten-buck bargains, because they know that a decent percentage of those shoppers will wind up making a bunch of other purchases as well. For Wal-Mart, it's just another holiday-season marketing device -- but it guts the local bookstore.

Trade publishing and bookselling is an immensely complicated set of interdependent businesses and arrangements that have grown up around the flow of a lot of information and rather less money. If you break some part of it, you don't get a changed version of an equally complex system. It collapses like an ecology, with much the same results: less life supported overall, far less diversity, degradation of habitat, loss of species, et cetera.

Why should you care? Because the highly specialized and diversified species it supports are authors and categories and books.

Back to Hagens Berman:
Filed in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California, the lawsuit alleges that the publishers and Apple colluded --
Collusion. Right. We're talking about the company that didn't get around to telling publishers until just a few weeks before it opened that it was going to be starting an ebookstore. Remember how ill-prepared some ebook editions were for a little while there? It was a mad scramble. Everyone's still catching up on basic issues.
-- to increase prices for popular e-book titles to boost profits and force e-book rival Amazon to abandon its pro-consumer discount pricing.
Wrong.

First, stop thinking of Amazon as a bookseller. That's just the line they started with, because it was easy and they didn't have to pay for any of their merchandise in advance.

Amazon wants to set a single low price for all books, including hot new hardcovers, because that would create a big incentive to buy a Kindle and thus get locked into that platform.

That is: publishers would do all the work and incur all the expense of developing authors and publishing their books, and then Amazon would sell them at prices way below market rate in order to promote the Kindle, because they want an effective monopoly on the ebook market.

If you want to talk about restraint of trade, ask Jim Macdonald what Amazon did to POD publishers a while back. It was obviously illegal, as the court ruled in the case of the only POD publisher that held out long enough to reach that point. The others had already folded, because Amazon shut out their books until they agreed to have their books manufactured by the inferior POD operation Amazon had recently acquired. POD publishers didn't have other sales outlets. They had to give in.

That's the short version. You should get the whole story.

The POD publishers weren't the only ones Amazon shut out. They pulled that stunt with all of Hachette's top books and authors in order to force Hachette to knuckle under, and I believe they did it with another publisher as well.

The point at which most people became aware of this conflict was when Amazon shut out every book by every Macmillan subsidiary, including Bedford, Freeman and Worth (W. H. Freeman, Bedford/St. Martin's, Worth), Farrar Straus Giroux (Faber & Faber), Henry Holt (Holt Paperbacks, Metropolitan, Times Books, Owl), Palgrave Macmillan, Picador, Roaring Brook (Neal Porter, First Second), St. Martin's Press, Tom Doherty Associates (Tor, Forge, Orb), the Nature Publishing Group, and I'm sure I'm missing a few. It was the same issue: Amazon demanded the right to set ruinously low prices on those publishers' books.
According to the suit, publishers believed that Amazon’s wildly popular Kindle e-reader device --
Sandru, I know you're still working on developing an ear for prose, but have you noticed that this reads like it was written by Amazon's PR department? Does that strike you as odd?
-- and the company’s discounted pricing for e-books would increase the adoption of e-books, and feared Amazon’s discounted pricing structure would permanently set consumer expectations for lower prices, even for other e-reader devices.
No. The publishers feared that Amazon would force them to sell their books for less than it cost to produce them, eventually driving them out of business.

(The cost of producing a bestseller is not the same thing as the cost of producing a copy of a bestseller. It includes all the costs of a system that publishes and sells books that aren't bestsellers, because the writers need a while to find their way, find their audience; and the readers need a while to get a sense of a writer, and sort out whether they like his or her books. Packaging and marketing needs a constant stream of books because it's the back-and-forth of that conversation between publisher and readers that enables a descriptive language to grow up that both sides understand. ### A recurring scene in publishing happens when some big diversified corporation acquires a publishing house. Their financial analysts go over the records and come back deeply puzzled. Most of the books lose money or just break even. The lion's share of the income comes from a relatively small number of bestsellers. The publishing house amiably agrees with that description. Then the beancounters ask the question they always ask: "Have you considered just publishing the bestsellers?" We find that funny because it's like asking whether you can't just grow apples, instead of wasting so much space and nutrients growing trunks, branches, leaves, and root systems. ### Actually, it is possible to just publish the bestsellers. The way you do it is by republishing someone else's bestsellers, and pretending that all those books cost the publisher was what it took to print, bind, and sell copies of them.)

You want to know the main reason I don't believe there was collusion? Because the big publishers acting together could have stopped Amazon cold, and they didn't. Amazon was going after them one at a time, as in the episode with Hachette. None of the publishers wanted to be the one to bell the cat. They knew they'd take significant sales losses during such a fight. Macmillan was the publisher that finally dug in its heels, told Amazon no, and took the fight public.

Not long after that, at a publishing conference in NYC, John Sargent (Macmillan's CEO) got a spontaneous standing ovation from the attendees. That's not collusion; that's a bunch of publishers that had all been in the same difficult position, applauding the head of the firm that took the hit.
The firm believes that Apple was involved in the scheme.
Hagens Berman credits Apple with far too much interest in and knowledge of book publishing.

I have to point out that at the time of this imaginary scheme, Apple wasn't obsessing about the Kindle., and it sure wasn't focused on the book publishing industry. It was in the middle of some of the biggest and most successful hardware rollouts in the history of computing.

The only thing more ridiculous than the idea that Steve Jobs was lying awake at night because he was worried by the Kindle is the idea that Jobs and the rest of Apple would put everything they've built into jeopardy by engaging in illegal collusion with a bunch of NYC publishers, and vice-versa. You can't keep a secret that that many people are in on. Besides, these aren't people that have a lot of history with each other. You don't engage in potentially criminal conspiracies with people you don't know.
The complaint alleges that Apple believed that it needed to neutralize the Kindle when it entered the e-book market with its own e-reader, the iPad, and feared that one day the Kindle might challenge the iPad by digitally distributing other media like music and movies.
See above, in re Amazon's PR department. Apple is so not worried about the Kindle doing that.
The complaint claims that the five publishing houses forced Amazon to abandon its discount pricing and adhere to a new agency model, in which publishers set prices.
Publishers have always set prices on their books. Amazon was trying to force them into a new and very disadvantageous model whereby Amazon runs no risks and incurs no development costs, yet somehow gets to set prices. Apple didn't have to collude. It just had to exist, so that Amazon was no longer the only game in town.
This would prevent retailers such as Amazon from offering lower prices on e-books.
This would prevent Amazon from scarfing up a short-term advantage while gutting the North American trade publishing industry.
Apple had already established such a model on its App store, taking 30 percent revenue on sales while the publishers receive 70 percent.
If Amazon defied the publishers and tried to sell e-books below the publisher-set levels, the publishers would simply deny Amazon access to the title, the complaint details.
As opposed to the previous situation in which a publisher that didn't knuckle under to Amazon would find its books were no longer available for sale there. The long and the short of it is that Amazon now has competition, and has to negotiate just like any other business. The fact that Amazon hates having to negotiate is outside the scope of the U.S. legal system.

I've read the rest of the case. It's about as deep and strong as your average Kleenex.

===

Sandru, you were going on a while back about being a lion rather than a sheep. Okay, fine, you're a lion. Now what are you going to do -- roar at your distributors? Gnaw on the keyboard while logged into BookScan? Attitude is not enough. Knowledge -- real knowledge, not Hagens Berman truthiness -- is pretty much a requirement.
 
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RexJameson

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@Hapisofi

I very much appreciate your summary and analysis of that case. It puts a lot of the frustrations between Amazon and members of this board in context, and I think you did a great job highlighting the other side. Thanks!
 

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I agree with Rex; nice summary HapiSoft.

I would like to add a point to your summary though: the publishing houses had the chance to buy into the new technology market of e-book readers. In fact it seems ludicrous that they didn't. E-readers have been in the market place for a long time and yet it took an online book store to take it on and change the book world. If publishers had originally realised this then they wouldn't have handed Amazon such a large chunk of the marketplace on a platter.
 

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But publishers aren't technology companies: they don't design or manufacture hardware. They publish books in formats which people can buy, and which are profitable. Now that e-readers are common, the publishers are bringing books out for those e-readers.
 

HapiSofi

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I agree with Rex; nice summary HapiSoft.

I would like to add a point to your summary though: the publishing houses had the chance to buy into the new technology market of e-book readers. In fact it seems ludicrous that they didn't. E-readers have been in the market place for a long time and yet it took an online book store to take it on and change the book world. If publishers had originally realised this then they wouldn't have handed Amazon such a large chunk of the marketplace on a platter.
Tim, we weren't ignoring them, honest. An editor of my acquaintance used to define ebooks as "the publishing format with the highest ratio of hours spent in meetings to copies sold."

They've been a moving target -- different formats, platforms, delivery systems, business models, payment mechanisms, et cetera. Notions of how ebooks were going to work were constantly mutating because they were insufficiently constrained by established market mechanisms or an installed user base. This led to the waste of vast amounts of brain juice on dead-end issues -- for instance, encryption.

Many books and formats have gotten stranded, and there've been some undeniable disappointments along the way. I remember how, for a while, Peanut Press and its Peanut Reader software for the Palm Pilot looked like they'd sorted out a winning format and business model. Then they got bought up by Palm, Inc., and everything got muddled. There was also the moment when other publishers started gearing up to follow Baen's example with the Webscriptions system, only to be stopped by their corporate PTBs, who were worried about DRM issues.

A vexed question within the industry has been the basic commercial model for ebooks: Would the future of ebooks consist of epublishers licensing rights from conventional publishers? Some companies bet that they would. (Amazon's preferred model is essentially a licensing system in which they pay next to nothing for the license.) Eventually, publishing houses decided that ebooks were just another format -- hardcover, trade paperback, mass-market paperback, audiobook, ebook -- which meant that online ebook operations like Amazon and Apple iBooks were distributors/booksellers. My favorite quote on this came from one tough old publisher who said, "I'm not going to license myself out of my own line of business."

The other thing all that uncertainty left in its wake was an indeterminately large number of contracts whose provisions were based on assumptions about the future of ebooks that turned out to be mistaken. Amending those as necessary is an ongoing cleanup project, and I'll bet you a full set of high-res color seps that (1.) no two houses are handling it the same way, and (2.) instances of this problem will still be occasionally turning up at some houses a decade from now.

If you like big sweeping changes, implemented across the board in a consistent fashion, don't work in trade publishing.
 

tim290280

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But publishers aren't technology companies: they don't design or manufacture hardware. They publish books in formats which people can buy, and which are profitable. Now that e-readers are common, the publishers are bringing books out for those e-readers.

Check the development process of hardware; a company or engineering firm will actually do the work and would then be asking for development funds or to be bought out. In this way the publishers would either own the rights to the technology or would have a new division of autonomous developers.

You'd have to assume that a tech company that was developing the e-reader tech did approach some, if not all the, big publishing companies for start-up or operating capital.
 

HapiSofi

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But publishers aren't technology companies: they don't design or manufacture hardware. They publish books in formats which people can buy, and which are profitable. Now that e-readers are common, the publishers are bringing books out for those e-readers.
That's a beautifully lucid answer to the question, far better than mine.
 

HapiSofi

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Check the development process of hardware; a company or engineering firm will actually do the work and would then be asking for development funds or to be bought out. In this way the publishers would either own the rights to the technology or would have a new division of autonomous developers.
But they don't want to own autonomous systems. They want to use whatever system everyone else has settled on.
 

tim290280

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Tim, we weren't ignoring them, honest. An editor of my acquaintance used to define ebooks as "the publishing format with the highest ratio of hours spent in meetings to copies sold."

They've been a moving target -- different formats, platforms, delivery systems, business models, payment mechanisms, et cetera. Notions of how ebooks were going to work were constantly mutating because they were insufficiently constrained by established market mechanisms or an installed user base. This led to the waste of vast amounts of brain juice on dead-end issues -- for instance, encryption.

Many books and formats have gotten stranded, and there've been some undeniable disappointments along the way. I remember how, for a while, Peanut Press and its Peanut Reader software for the Palm Pilot looked like they'd sorted out a winning format and business model. Then they got bought up by Palm, Inc., and everything got muddled. There was also the moment when other publishers started gearing up to follow Baen's example with the Webscriptions system, only to be stopped by their corporate PTBs, who were worried about DRM issues.

A vexed question within the industry has been the basic commercial model for ebooks: Would the future of ebooks consist of epublishers licensing rights from conventional publishers? Some companies bet that they would. (Amazon's preferred model is essentially a licensing system in which they pay next to nothing for the license.) Eventually, publishing houses decided that ebooks were just another format -- hardcover, trade paperback, mass-market paperback, audiobook, ebook -- which meant that online ebook operations like Amazon and Apple iBooks were distributors/booksellers. My favorite quote on this came from one tough old publisher who said, "I'm not going to license myself out of my own line of business."

The other thing all that uncertainty left in its wake was an indeterminately large number of contracts whose provisions were based on assumptions about the future of ebooks that turned out to be mistaken. Amending those as necessary is an ongoing cleanup project, and I'll bet you a full set of high-res color seps that (1.) no two houses are handling it the same way, and (2.) instances of this problem will still be occasionally turning up at some houses a decade from now.

If you like big sweeping changes, implemented across the board in a consistent fashion, don't work in trade publishing.

This argument could be made for any industry. But if those industries took that position then computers, music (tapes, CDs, not necessarily MP3s), etc, would have never developed as far, nor as fast as they have.
 

tim290280

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But they don't want to own autonomous systems. They want to use whatever system everyone else has settled on.

Ok then, why did a bookstore buy into e-readers? How did Sony develop several standards of technology in various industries?

I'm amazed at some of the developments that are on tech sites. Anyone of those techs could be bought up.
 

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That's a beautifully lucid answer to the question, far better than mine.

*bows*

Check the development process of hardware; a company or engineering firm will actually do the work and would then be asking for development funds or to be bought out. In this way the publishers would either own the rights to the technology or would have a new division of autonomous developers.

Way back in the dark ages of the 1980s I worked for various computer games publishers and not a single one of them was directly involved in the development of the hardware which played the games we published.

Moreover, the hardware companies employed their own engineers and developmental staff and did all that developmental stuff for themselves.

Things have changed since then: but I don't think they've changed in the directions you suggest. And I've not heard hints of it when I talk to my friends who still work in the computer games business, but that could be because we've talked about other stuff, so I could have missed the point here.

You'd have to assume that a tech company that was developing the e-reader tech did approach some, if not all the, big publishing companies for start-up or operating capital.

Why would Sony or Amazon or anyone else ask publishers to provide start-up capital for a product they were perfectly capable of developing alone, when such an involvement would have given those publishers an equity share of the product which resulted?
 

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HapiSofi, your opinion on the press release was interesting. I'm curious to find out what you think about Jane Litte's coverage of agency pricing. She's a lawyer (though not an expert in antitrust law), and questioned the legality of the pricing for some time. She referred to a lawsuit as "inevitable."

She has a great post on the lawsuit with a round-up of links to her past posts and comments.

Here are couple of other articles for anyone interested:

This CS Monitor article questions the motives of the law firm, but concedes they may have proof.

This article from Wired has a quote from Steve Jobs which is an exhibit in the case:

'The price will be the same,' Jobs insisted. 'Publishers may withhold their books from Amazon. They’re unhappy.'
 

kaitie

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Keep in mind that most everyone was actually supporting HD dvds--not Blu Ray. It wasn't until the PS3 used the Blu Ray technology that anyone else started going for it. There were a lot of people who had invested in the alternative convinced Blu Ray wouldn't go anywhere who were then out a ton of money. It was all a gamble, and formatting wars tend to be that way.

We're still (sort of) having formatting wars going on with e-readers. They may not be as big of a deal as they were initially, but there's no way to know which format is going to win out (if any) and which will be the best buy. It's an even bigger gamble because there were several varieties coming out at the same time. Companies don't have money to just throw away on something that isn't a sure thing, and why should they? They have an easy safe bet that they can follow instead--just create a few different formats and make their books available for every type of reader being created.
 

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You may have an exaggerated idea of how much money publishing houses have to throw around.

This. I would love it if us publishers could have our own ebook sales platform, but we don't have nearly enough spare cash to cobble one together, let alone to then compete against Amazon's pricing.
 

tim290280

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This. I would love it if us publishers could have our own ebook sales platform, but we don't have nearly enough spare cash to cobble one together, let alone to then compete against Amazon's pricing.
I remember the last business I bought for cash that was burning a hole in my pocket too. :D

My original point was that there was a lack of foresight and investment in the industry on behalf of the publishers, that point has been lost. It was semi-related to my original point in this thread about how readers find books, given that they can only read a fraction of all the books available to them. The huge advantages of e-books and e-readers were realised by Amazon in getting books to people. Publishers had that same opportunity, in fact they were better positioned (Amazon didn't turn a profit until 2004-05), and completely missed the boat.

I can't find the link, but there was a great write up on my points in an economics newspaper. It commented on the similarities between Apple and its iPod in the music industry and Amazon and its Kindle in the publishing industry.
 

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My original point was that there was a lack of foresight and investment in the industry on behalf of the publishers, that point has been lost.

Hard to say whether that's true or not, but I think I would tend to disagree. Foresight is amazingly hard, especially with tech; investment is amazingly hard for publishers, who are often operating on single-figure profit margins. I can't really imagine an alternate history in which the Kindle was invented and marketed by a publisher rather than a cash-rich internet behemoth. And the ebook revolution had to be hardware-driven - nobody much wanted to read books on PCs, laptops or feature phones.
 

kaitie

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Also, we don't tend to buy books from the publishers, we tend to buy from third-party sellers. Could you imagine if every publisher had created their own e-reader as well? I mean, even if Random House had come out with a great e-reader, what would the other companies do? And Random House wouldn't have much incentive to make it easy to buy books from the competition. Honestly, it makes more sense to go this way.

It just occurred to me, too, that this technology has to be constantly updated as well, so it wouldn't be a one time cost. It would be something that would need constant investment, especially to compete and have a chance of remaining on top.
 

HapiSofi

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Imagine you're a publishing house. Everything you do is geared to finding, acquiring, producing, promoting, and selling books. Developing hardware? That's alien. You don't even know how things like that get manufactured, much less marketed. But suppose you do it anyway. There's your proprietary reader. It goes on the market. Some people buy one.

What happens now?

Now you can sell ebooks to the people who've bought one of your readers. That's a tiny fraction of the potential market you're accustomed to have for your books. It's worse when you think about other companies having their own proprietary reading devices, because every one of those represents a reader who may not be able to access your titles -- and they might have liked them! It's an intolerable situation.

Limiting the size and scope of the potential market for your books is not our idea of a good time.
 

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Many books and formats have gotten stranded, and there've been some undeniable disappointments along the way.

Formats only get stranded if you refuse to release specs and/or load them up with DRM, and/or do something stupid like putting page images into the file rather than text and markup. Otherwise you can easily convert from one format to another.

One of the reasons I buy few ebooks from Amazon is because they don't seem to tell you whether a book has DRM before you buy it, so I'm stuck with reading it on a Kindle.
 

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One of the reasons I buy few ebooks from Amazon is because they don't seem to tell you whether a book has DRM before you buy it, so I'm stuck with reading it on a Kindle.
You're not stuck. You can read it on your PC by downloading Kindle for PC. You can read it on your iPad by downloading the Kindle ap to the iPad. And on iPhone, Mac, Android, Blackberry, Windows Phone 7, and probably more as ereader vendors add Kindle aps.
 
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