Purgatory's Pit of Doom

Cricket18 said:

I hope neither Evie nor any other AW'er reads this and takes offense, but I don't think any first-timer deserves this kind of money or marketing attention. I think books should be released with a modicum of marketing and then let the people speak, as they did with HP. If a book is fabulous, it will take hold. So often people buy books because of an insane marketing machine, not because it necessarily deserves it.

THIS SO HARD!!


Would I take a huge advance? Hell, yes. And I'd be the first to admit I'm a hypocrite. Still, I think there should be an even playing field and there just isn't. I can say this with all honesty: if my book got published with a tiny advance, and became a sensation, that would make me feel the BEST. Why? Because it succeeded based on its own merits, not media hype telling people it was a great book, so buy, buy, buy.

This this this!!


I know we all want to be published, but I think we tend to forget about the writing itself...the love of writing. This is the part of the process that is supposed to be all ours, the publishing side be damned. If an editor later on says, "If you change the MC's race we'll publish," decide then. For now, write what you love.
And This. Cricket you're on a roll!

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ink wench said:

Cat, the problem is agents say they want to see a lot of things. Whether they can sell them is a different story. It's unfortunate. When I was querying my YA UF that had a mildly disabled MC, all of my passes came back as "can't relate to MC." We (agent and I) did everything we could to make her the most relatable, likable person and still.

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Agreed Inky. Every single one of the agents who said they repped my genre and were looking for mc's that were POC's rejected my work. That could be just 'cause it wasn't their cuppa, I'll never know. What I found interesting is back in my very naive days, if I saw an agent say - 'I want to see more POC's,' I'd make sure to modify my query to include that point 'I see you're looking for x, well my mc is...'. Every singly query that began like that was R'd. If I didn't include that fact (keep in mind it was the exact same query, just with that fact taken out), then my odds of getting asked for material dramatically increased.

I believe some agents would genuinely love to see more mc's of colour etc. but they can't sell them (and this is a job for them so it all comes down to needing to eat and pay the bills.) I also believe some agents only 'say' they want to see this because it makes them sound open minded.

Of course, they'd never admit this a la 'I'm not racist!' syndrome <- when someone says or does something racist/stereotypical and when they are called on it they get all defensive and flail about saying there's nothing wrong with what they just said or did but YOU are too sensitive and THAT is what's wrong.

In the end I think the only thing that really could change publishing dramatically is if there was a sleeper hit that had a disabled/gay/POC etc etc mc. Then there'd prob. be a dramatic increase in editors wanting to acquire a book with a character just like the one in the cash-cow novel.

/2 cents.

fourlittlebees said:

Where he was talking about how frustrated he was watching all these people write dreck and get published before he nabbed his deal.

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I don't take offense to this because I've worked at this so long to get where I am that I don't care if some people think I write dreck. My ego was checked at the door many years ago, but others on AW might find this statement a bit too all-encompassing.

(((Beth)))

Mornin', Pit

Yes, Steve, it is morning in the Pit, isn't it? Not a dawn-after-darkness, break-of-a-new-day, everything-looks-better morning.

Maggoccinos?

Cricket18 said:

I hope neither Evie nor any other AW'er reads this and takes offense, but I don't think any first-timer deserves this kind of money or marketing attention. I think books should be released with a modicum of marketing and then let the people speak, as they did with HP. If a book is fabulous, it will take hold. So often people buy books because of an insane marketing machine, not because it necessarily deserves it. <- Exactly

I have a friend who went crazy over G!rl W1th Th3 Dr@gon T@ttoo. I mean, he thought the book was the best thing EVAR and gave it to me as a gift.

I put it down multiple times and at the end, threw it across the room. Not my cuppa. To each his/her own. <- When I finished the book, I didn't understand the hype about it either, and I have no desire to read the sequels. For a person with Obsessive Sequel Syndrome aka OSS that's huge.

Would I take a huge advance? Hell, yes. And I'd be the first to admit I'm a hypocrite. Still, I think there should be an even playing field and there just isn't. I can say this with all honesty: if my book got published with a tiny advance, and became a sensation, that would make me feel the BEST. Why? Because it succeeded based on its own merits, not media hype telling people it was a great book, so buy, buy, buy. <- YES! YES! YES!

I know we all want to be published, but I think we tend to forget about the writing itself...the love of writing. This is the part of the process that is supposed to be all ours, the publishing side be damned. If an editor later on says, "If you change the MC's race we'll publish," decide then. For now, write what you love.
/sentimental rant <- 100% agreed.

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soulcascade said:

In the end I think the only thing that really could change publishing dramatically is if there was a sleeper hit that had a disabled/gay/POC etc etc mc. Then there'd prob. be a dramatic increase in editors wanting to acquire a book with a character just like the one in the cash-cow novel.

/2 cents. <- Yup. It'll take a breakout hit to make it more "mainstream"

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Morning Pitizens! I get to meet our Overlord today, and Blondchen from up in purgatory.

Its2Snappy said:

Morning Pitizens! I get to meet our Overlord today

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*Is jealous*

'aka OSS that's huge.' LOL!!

*looks around at Kansas with disappointment*

Snapps and Overlord, enjoy your furlough from the Pit! Make a break for it if you can. A life on the run from bounty hellhounds is better than life in the Pit.

I donno Kell, those hounds are fast and Snappy has told us she's rather short. Snapps - if you need to hop on Steve's back! His long legs will hopefully help you get away faster

Agreed with everything.

And thanks everyone for all your support and stories...I had a talk with some of my upper PhD friends. People understand things in different ways and are interested in different things. I don't have to measure myself up against 'intellectuals' who fauxlosophize about Derrida and act like it's the be all and end all, or who throw out big words that they don't even quite understand. On top of that, I don't need to let myself feel like I'm on the outside...yeah there are ppl too snobby to even talk to me but the real question is if I even NEED their friendship? I'd say no. Instead of feeling like I'm on the outside, I just have to find where I do fit. And I do have people irl I can talk to and call my friends so...screw them. I've never been one to beg the popular kids anyway (it's just that who's popular and who isn't changes depending on your social setting I guess).

Soul, I wonder if such a sleeper hit can be made through the publishing system? I almost think that the industry has degraded so much that there's no possible way there can be a 'sleeper hit' that's THAT different than what's already out there. I know that history tells us we should be having another Next Big Thing any day now...something that does shock everyone. But I don't know if, in this climate where everything feel/is manufactured, TNBT will be something really capable of surprising/moving people, or will it be something chosen, edited and/or put together by the number
crunchers of the big six. Idk if that made sense.

ETA: OVERLORDDD!!!!

Also, my inbox is super quiet. It is November though...don't editors also write themselves? I wonder how many of them are doing Nano instead of reading our manuscripts? lol jk

soulcascade said:

I donno Kell, those hounds are fast and Snappy has told us she's rather short. Snapps - if you need to hop on Steve's back! His long legs will hopefully help you get away faster

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And I have a skirt on today too! This does not bode well.

Roly said:

On top of that, I don't need to let myself feel like I'm on the outside...yeah there are ppl too snobby to even talk to me but the real question is if I even NEED their friendship? I'd say no.

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THIS! Roly, that's the most important part. If these people are already problematic, then who wants them as friends?

Roly said:

Soul, I wonder if such a sleeper hit can be made through the publishing system? I almost think that the industry has degraded so much that there's no possible way there can be a 'sleeper hit' that's THAT different than what's already out there. I know that history tells us we should be having another Next Big Thing any day now...something that does shock everyone. But I don't know if, in this climate where everything feel/is manufactured, TNBT will be something really capable of surprising/moving people, or will it be something chosen, edited and/or put together by the number
crunchers of the big six. Idk if that made sense.

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fauxlosophize™ <- that awesome word deserved to be trade marked

Agreed on the above, Roly. Perhaps something that 'different' would need to get out there through self publishing or some other non-traditional means. Eds/agents are less and less likely to take 'chances' now a days...and the fall out from that unfortunately is since 'different' mc's are seen as taking a chance, the chances of such ms seeing the light of day dramatically decrease

RedScylla said:

*looks around at Kansas with disappointment*

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*looks around at SoCal suburbia with disappointment*

I completely agree with Cricket too, I can think of loads of books *cough* L@byr!nth *cough* that were terrible but got hyped up because of the author or just hypey hype.

But then, like HP, if a book is really amazing won't word of mouth get it out there anyway? It would be interesting to see releases in another universes where they got no hype and see which got to bestsellers.

My inbox is super quiet too. The spiders that live there are getting lonely.

Roly if people are being that snobby then you can definitely do better. In fact, your own company would probably be an upgrade from trying to be someone you're not

Have you considered developing a chatty alternate personality...?

Yes, I'm super excited to see Snappy & Blond this evening. Been real busy & got into work at 8 am this mornin' (usually get in at 9:30) so I can finish early and leave at 5

That's dedication.

Catwoman said:

*looks around at SoCal suburbia with disappointment*

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Except Blond actually lives in SoCal!

RedScylla said:

Except Blond actually lives in SoCal!

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Don't hold that against her

This is one of those days (of which there are many) when I find the silence especially deafening and baffling. I understand no-responses from no-response places, but why don't the others respond?????

SteveCordero said:

Yes, I'm super excited to see Snappy & Blond this evening. Been real busy & got into work at 8 am this mornin' (usually get in at 9:30) so I can finish early and leave at 5

That's dedication.

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I guess I shall you there as well, then

And yes, dedication!

lotus7 said:

I guess I shall you there as well, then

And yes, dedication!

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That is awesome! Wasn't sure if you were going to make it there as well.

Yep, going to make it for a little while, though might have to leave before the end

Everyone in my family but me went to Penn State. I never wanted to hear about it then, and I still don't. I'm going to hide under the sofa for awhile.

Thought I'd delurk and leave the latest Hyperbole and a Half here for all my pestilent, scabrous Pitizen lovelies.

Favorite quote:

But trying to use willpower to overcome the apathetic sort of sadness that accompanies Depression is like a person with no arms trying to punch themselves until their hands grow back.

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Oh, I loved that, Clovia. "Is this what you someday dreamed of becoming? A sad person holding a fork?"