How many $2.99 books you need to sell per month to earn $10,000 in 5 years

Mscelina, while I'm not in the least defending ebookreader, I do have some serious issues with your comment above. First, how much does your business pay to your readers, on average, via royalties over the lifetime of a book? Is it better than 70% because that's what you seem to be implying? Second, have you read Konrath & Crouch's book Draculas? I can pretty much guarantee that one didn't see too many edits. Are you disputing Heinlein's advice to writers to revise only to editorial request?

My thoughts, in list form because I apparently like lists.

1) 4 books a year might be doable for some, but as mentioned previously in the thread if this was intended as a way to earn $10,000 in five years, that's $2,000 a year and nowhere near enough to even consider living on. Maybe you're supposed to have a really supportive spouse?

2) As mentioned before, I'm not sure I would consider 900 books in a year successful. As a self-publisher that's pretty impressive, I suppose, but personally I want to be selling a lot more than that and would consider less the mark that I wasn't doing my job well and needed to improve.

3) To the person who said earlier that 1 hour a day could produce four books a year--maybe for you. I usually can't edit and write at the same time, though I'm going to make an effort at it later this month. However, you're assuming I can write 1200 words in an hour, and that's not always the case. Sometimes I can if I'm having a really great day. Other days I spend five hours working to hit five hundred. Everyone has their own pace, and it's not really fair to imply that a person should be able to write a particular amount in a particular time frame.

4) None of this takes into account that books don't usually sell the same rate over time. Most commercially published books sell the most copies in the first months after publication and then trail off. This might be marketing, but I've heard of self-publishers who have had similar experiences as well as others who have had had very low sales that eventually go higher as time goes on.

Assuming that the rate of sales will be the same over time is just unrealistic. Even if a book sells 900 copies in the first year, it might sell 500 the next, and 200 the next, and so on.

FOTSGreg said:

Are you disputing Heinlein's advice to writers to revise only to editorial request?

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I'm probably misreading something here, but are you implying that a self-published author shouldn't edit unless they have an editor request it?

G.Collins said:

Could anyone who is actually pulling 4 books a year explain what their process is? Do they, like, NaNoWriMo style write the first 90k to get it done in a month, heavily edit and then send off to professional for a second pairs of eyes? Then use the last couple of weeks to final-edit? It seems that would still leave a lot of room for errors.

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Um, sure. So, it generally takes me five to six weeks for a first draft. I write for three to four hours a day, five days a week.

Afterwards, I let it sit for a few weeks. Then, I'll reformat the manuscript in .rtf, have Calibre change it to .lit format, and have the Microsoft Reader program read it aloud to me, something that takes maybe three or four evenings. (This is happening while I'm drafting something new during the day). I catch typos, make notes, etc. It probably takes me another week or so to make all the changes I want, and then I send it off to get critiques/feedbacks/edits, which I can usually get back within two weeks.

Then a session using find and replace to fix my general errors (like vs. as if, eyes vs. gaze, etc.) and to format the thing for kindle and it's ready to publish. So...let's say that takes me... three months from draft to publish? On average.

And, of course, while I'm editing that book, I'm drafting another one, so the process tends to overlap. I'm lucky enough to be doing this full time currently now, but I did manage to write three novels and a novella last year while working full time. However, I was a teacher, and one of those books was written during the summer when I had two-month vacation.

Oddly, I'm not sure my production level is increasing exponentially now that I don't have a day job. It's increased, for sure, but I find that I simply can't write for eight hours straight--at least not day in, day out. (I've had those crazy 15,000 word days before. Boy are they awesome.) But I can't overdo it, or I burn out.

Katie, no, not at all. Self-publishers need editors. DWS and Kathryn Rusch use each other as their editors and they're experienced at it so neither is DWS advocating not editing self-published works. I use SYW and a couple experienced betas myself. Heinlein was also not advocating that authors not edit.

DWS's point is that authors frequently ruin their own work by revising. He did not say do not edit. Heinlein's point was largely the same. Do not revise. Edit, yes, but revise only to editorial request.

valeriec80 said:

Afterwards, I let it sit for a few weeks. Then, I'll reformat the manuscript in .rtf, have Calibre change it to .lit format, and have the Microsoft Reader program read it aloud to me, something that takes maybe three or four evenings. (This is happening while I'm drafting something new during the day). I catch typos, make notes, etc. It probably takes me another week or so to make all the changes I want, and then I send it off to get critiques/feedbacks/edits, which I can usually get back within two weeks.

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Thank you for your insight, and this is a WONDERFUL idea. I have never thought about using a reader program in that way. This could be a big help to catch those howlers I always miss . Thanks!

FOTSGreg said:

Katie, no, not at all. Self-publishers need editors. DWS and Kathryn Rusch use each other as their editors and they're experienced at it so neither is DWS advocating not editing self-published works. I use SYW and a couple experienced betas myself. Heinlein was also not advocating that authors not edit.

DWS's point is that authors frequently ruin their own work by revising. He did not say do not edit. Heinlein's point was largely the same. Do not revise. Edit, yes, but revise only to editorial request.

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Okay, that makes more sense. I thought I was misunderstanding lol, that's why I asked.

My suggestion would be to focus less on how much money you hope to make and more on honing your writing skills; the money will follow.

Poor wording on my part, Kaitie. One perfect example of why I definitely need an editor.

thothguard51 said:

Me thinks Ebook reader is here to promote Ebook reader and not to truly discuss the pro's and cons of self publishing...

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Agree.

I was really starting to wonder, but when I read his latest and then the "math" and saw that quantity was being used as the pushrod to financial accumulation over quality. . . all the rest of the pieces fell into place.

Wonder if he truly realizes that he is not doing the self-publishing industry, or e-tailers, any good by perpetrating this claptrap?

I understand the article reads more than a bit like a get rich quick scheme, but I would say that criticisms that you shouldn't concern yourself about marketing and economics are misguided. Publishers concern themselves about these things all the time and self-publishers should as well. There are some valuable bits of information in the article or implied by it.

The big point in the article is that because of how Amazon prices and the dominance they have in the industry, the .99 price point is a mistake. You need to make six times the sales in order to make up for the difference in royalty. He's dead right about that. You want the minimum $2.99 price point to get the 70% commission.

The unspoken thing is that indie ebook retailing has very favorable economics for shorter works, a niche that in many genres the mainstream book industry relegated to the dustbin or poorly paying outlets. People have mentioned the difficulty in producing a certain number of 90k word novels a year, but you don't have to produce a 90k novel, you can produce 3 30k novellas and you can still sell them at the same $2.99 price point.

The other thing is just because your books aren't flying off the shelves and racking up huge checks right away isn't a reason to stop writing and publishing. If you are selling a reasonable number of books and you and your readers are happy, in the long run, e-publishing can provide you with a living even if it doesn't right out the gate.

G.Collins said:

Wait... he expects 4 books a year? A book published every 3 months, including proper drafts, editing, and all of the marketing you take on yourself as a self publisher? Maybe he can do it because he has a built in base, but if I tried that the quality of books I'd put out wouldn't even be worth 99 cents.

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Turndog-Millionaire said:

It goes to show if you can get a few books out there that huge amounts of copies don't need to fly off the shelf for money to be made (although i do agree, 4 books a year is craziness! It's taken me 6 years to have one nearly done

Matt (Turndog Millionaire)

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It can be done. I had 17 releases in 2011 (8 novellas, 1 short, 8 novels).

I don't self-publish, but I do still have to deal with edits, promoting releases, etc., which is time-consuming. And to be fair, I also don't have a day job outside of writing. But, it can be done.

G.Collins said:

Could anyone who is actually pulling 4 books a year explain what their process is? Do they, like, NaNoWriMo style write the first 90k to get it done in a month, heavily edit and then send off to professional for a second pairs of eyes? Then use the last couple of weeks to final-edit? It seems that would still leave a lot of room for errors.

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Bear in mind, I don't have a day job, kids, or many outside obligations, so my writing days are anywhere from 8-16 hours...

Start to finish, my books take about 2-4 weeks for a contemporary romance, 3-6 for a suspense novel or sci fi (since they tend to be a little more involved, require more planning, etc), and about a week for a novella. I write one draft, edit the hell out of it, and send it to my editor (If I'm uncertain about something, I'll send it to a beta first, but usually I can sort it out on my own).

Katie Elle said:

The other thing is just because your books aren't flying off the shelves and racking up huge checks right away isn't a reason to stop writing and publishing. If you are selling a reasonable number of books and you and your readers are happy, in the long run, e-publishing can provide you with a living even if it doesn't right out the gate.

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Agreed. I'm not rolling in money, but as my backlist grows, my income is reaching a point where it means the difference between struggling and being able to do the things we want to do (travel, etc).

I think if you have written one or a few and you know that another book would be a major task then you should be concentrating on marketing what you already have before you write anymore.

If you don't sell that many then you can decide not to write anymore or not prioritise writing the next one as much. Otherwise if you keep writing books before getting an honest representation of what they really are (you dedicated marketing them) in light of your ultimate goal (earning money) then you are gambling your time.

thethinker42 said:

It can be done. I had 17 releases in 2011 (8 novellas, 1 short, 8 novels).

I don't self-publish, but I do still have to deal with edits, promoting releases, etc., which is time-consuming. And to be fair, I also don't have a day job outside of writing. But, it can be done.



Bear in mind, I don't have a day job, kids, or many outside obligations, so my writing days are anywhere from 8-16 hours...

Start to finish, my books take about 2-4 weeks for a contemporary romance, 3-6 for a suspense novel or sci fi (since they tend to be a little more involved, require more planning, etc), and about a week for a novella. I write one draft, edit the hell out of it, and send it to my editor (If I'm uncertain about something, I'll send it to a beta first, but usually I can sort it out on my own).



Agreed. I'm not rolling in money, but as my backlist grows, my income is reaching a point where it means the difference between struggling and being able to do the things we want to do (travel, etc).

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I read some of your stuff and all I have to say is: TEACH ME HOW PLEASE. Because you definitely don't sacrifice quality. (Wanna adopt a grown boy?) =D

Dani said:

I read some of your stuff and all I have to say is: TEACH ME HOW PLEASE. Because you definitely don't sacrifice quality. (Wanna adopt a grown boy?) =D

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Awww, thank you! <3 <3 <3 Says you who's selling circles around me....

thethinker42 said:

Awww, thank you! <3 <3 <3 Says you who's selling circles around me....

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That's because I slept with them all. Your problem is you have integrity.

Dani said:

That's because I slept with them all. Your problem is you have integrity.

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Well-played, mi amigo.


Going to have to try that marketing strategy...

G.Collins said:

Wait... he expects 4 books a year? A book published every 3 months, including proper drafts, editing, and all of the marketing you take on yourself as a self publisher? Maybe he can do it because he has a built in base, but if I tried that the quality of books I'd put out wouldn't even be worth 99 cents.

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I couldn't do it either, however, writing just one thousand words a day (which I can do in about an hour and a half), every day would yield a 90k book in three months. If you don't have a day job, it would be easy to work on the polishing of a previous book for a few more hours every day. A month of doing that, another month for betas, and a month for an editor, and you'd be publishing that book about the time the other book is done being written and can move into the polishing/editing stage while you start another book.

In fact, since you'd have so much time and the above could be done in the morning, you'd have time to do research and marketing in the afternoon. Of course, on the weekend, you could just do the hour or so of writing in the morning, and take a break from the other stuff.

It sounds so easy when broken down like that, doesn't it? I need to follow my own advice, except I have a day job that gets in the way.

MMcDonald64 said:

It sounds so easy when broken down like that, doesn't it?

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As my mother liked to say, "It's always easy when the other guy is doing it."

Extrapolation. Gotta love it.