How much would you typically make?

Stacia Kane · Jan 8, 2013

dogpie said:
Not to start a long-winded debate, just making an observation, but I don't understand why so many people still struggle for months and years to go the trade publishing route, only to end up with an advance of a few thousand dollars and then the high possibility of the book earning nothing more, when they could go the self-publishing route and have the same shot, without the pain and wait for the search of agents and publishers.

Sure, you could point out statistics that most self-published books don't earn more than $500 (or whatever the number is), but for people who are truly good enough, they do earn more than that. When you go to Amazon and look through some of the self-published books there that didn't work out, it's not much of a surprise when you read the inside preview, so those statistics shouldn't really be surprising. I'm not saying all the duds out there are examples of low-quality writing, grammar error mountains, bad covers, but I wouldn't be surprised if most of them are.

I'm just saying. Let's say you're a decent writer, not just from how you perceive yourself, but sincerely a decent writer that people like to read. Of course everyone believes they have what it takes, and while that's not true, there are people who do. Let's say, by some shot, you're one of them. You're not going to find out until you have your book out there in the public, and having your book out there is much quicker and easier through self-publishing than trade. I'd honestly rather take my chance at having my self-pub'd book explode on the internet (or at least make more than what an advance would get me) without all the months and years of searching for an agent and a publisher, instead of HOPING for months and years to get an agent or a publisher someday, just to make a few measly grand. And if your self-pub'd book doesn't explode? Great, try again. You won't have to wait years to see your next book published, you won't have to wait years to try again. You won't have to worry about your previous book going out of print, just in case people start to enjoy your next books and want to read your others, because it's digital and will always be there.

Sorry if this was out of place, but I thought it was relevant in a thread where people are moaning over the horrid financial prospects of being a writer.

*shrug* I don't understand why people put down the publishing choices of others when they don't seem to have done it themselves.

Personally, I made a lot more than "a few grand," and didn't have to do my own layout or cover art or upload files or whatever; my books are in stores nationwide; thanks to my agent my books are in stores around the world and in audiobook and I made more than "a few grand" on those advances, too. When self-published books debut on bookstores (and when self-published books get things like co-op placement which my publisher paid for) then perhaps it'll be a more even playing field, but as of now it isn't. And as much as we who pay attention to such things know about self-publishing etc. the fact remains that there is still a significant portion of readers who do not pay attention to them, who are basically unaware of them, because they buy books in stores where those books are not available.

I'm nowhere near a bestseller but have cleared over six figures in the last few years, and the first two books in my first series and the first three books in my second have earned out so I make royalties on those, too (a few of the foreign editions have also earned out). Being trade published also offers me the opportunity to be invited to participate in anthologies and to participate on panels at conventions etc., for which I do not pay (the conventions and my publishers handle that, including travel).

I've self-published as well, and am currently working on another project to self-publish; I don't see this as an "either-or" situation, but I know my self-published book isn't in bookstores and would very likely not be as successful as it is if not for my trade-published work (plus it's niche non-fiction, which is of course a different market).

I'm excited about my little self-pub venture and am having fun with it, and if it goes well I'll do more, but I can't see myself wanting to move exclusively into self-pubbing. Personally, all of the stuff that goes with self-pubbing is a lot more "struggle" than anything I've experienced in trade publishing.

I don't see any reason to put down those who self-publish or imply that they're taking the easy way out or whatever, so why put down those of us who trade publish by implying we're idiots?

Guinea · Jan 8, 2013

Oh my! Am so with Old Hack on this one. How old are you again, Dogpie? I'm thinking young, and I'm thinking you have only just started on the writing route. Self publishing involves an enormous amount of work with few rewards. The few success stories are just that - few. Read what everyone is saying on AW about self-publishing and you'll get the gist. It isn't a case of scribbling a few lines, slapping on a cover and waiting for the moolah to roll in. In the long run (and this is if your book has even an inkling of worth) it will probably less painful to suck up the rejections from agents and hopefully landing one than looking at your dismal sales figures at the end of the month from SP after a mountain of work. But hey, good luck with that.

Old Hack · Jan 8, 2013

I note that dogpie started a thread very similar to this one last summer.

Bri Perkins · Jan 8, 2013

Old Hack said:
I note that dogpie started a thread very similar to this one last summer.

Oh, okay. Will check it out.

Mr Flibble · Jan 8, 2013

Michael Sullivan (who has done extremely well with his self pubbing) had a post somewhere (aha, here is a repeat of it) that he reckons the odds of having a self pubbing success are about the same as getting an agent/publishing deal. The question is, which is right for you?

Personally, I haven't a clue about what covers appeal (except to me) or all the other stuff I'd need to do. I may give it a go one day...

But self pubbing isn't for everyone, and neither is trade publishing. Isn't it great there's more choice now? That it isn't an either/or option?

As for the OP's questions: 1 - A lot would depend. What house have you sold to? Or are you self pubbing? How much commercial appeal does the book have? How good at you at marketing (esp if self pubbing)? etc etc

2 - At your age, I'd bung most of the money away, but use some for fun. At my age, I'm using it to do up my house/pay off the mortgage early. Depends on what your financial obligations are.

Old Hack · Jan 8, 2013

Mr Flibble said:
But self pubbing isn't for everyone, and neither is trade publishing. Isn't it great there's more choice now? That it isn't an either/or option?

Agreed. I don't understand why so many people try to make a big deal of this. Nicely said!

As for the OP's questions: 1 - A lot would depend. What house have you sold to? Or are you self pubbing? How much commercial appeal does the book have? How good at you at marketing (esp if self pubbing)? etc etc

2 - At your age, I'd bung most of the money away, but use some for fun. At my age, I'm using it to do up my house/pay off the mortgage early. Depends on what your financial obligations are.

And that was a very nice segue into the original topic. You're good, Mr Flibble.

AW Admin · Jan 8, 2013

dogpie said:
Don't assume I haven't a clue about what it takes to self-publish, and I won't assume anything about you.

Alright Old Hack?

Thanks.

Tell you what. You can assume a courteous tone towards other members and to mods like Old Hack who volunteer their time and considerable experience and expertise and I won't assume that I need to go look at your post history.

Go read the Newbie's Guide and attempt a slightly more elevated level of discourse.

Now. I'm not going to warn you again.

Persei · Jan 8, 2013

I wouldn't worry about money right now... Focus on craft, and a good education so you can get a proper job. Writing for the money won'y pay off in the long run.

Then again, it's not like you can't try and query your work to agents to see what is like. Agents are rare around here and the standard is to send the MS directly to publishers, and that's what I intend to do since I want to gain some experience, know what I'm getting myself into. Maybe you could do the same.

Persei · Jan 8, 2013

Stacia Kane said:
*shrug* I don't understand why people put down the publishing choices of others when they don't seem to have done it themselves.

Personally, I made a lot more than "a few grand," and didn't have to do my own layout or cover art or upload files or whatever; my books are in stores nationwide; thanks to my agent my books are in stores around the world and in audiobook and I made more than "a few grand" on those advances, too. When self-published books debut on bookstores (and when self-published books get things like co-op placement which my publisher paid for) then perhaps it'll be a more even playing field, but as of now it isn't. And as much as we who pay attention to such things know about self-publishing etc. the fact remains that there is still a significant portion of readers who do not pay attention to them, who are basically unaware of them, because they buy books in stores where those books are not available.

I'm nowhere near a bestseller but have cleared over six figures in the last few years, and the first two books in my first series and the first three books in my second have earned out so I make royalties on those, too (a few of the foreign editions have also earned out). Being trade published also offers me the opportunity to be invited to participate in anthologies and to participate on panels at conventions etc., for which I do not pay (the conventions and my publishers handle that, including travel).

I've self-published as well, and am currently working on another project to self-publish; I don't see this as an "either-or" situation, but I know my self-published book isn't in bookstores and would very likely not be as successful as it is if not for my trade-published work (plus it's niche non-fiction, which is of course a different market).

I'm excited about my little self-pub venture and am having fun with it, and if it goes well I'll do more, but I can't see myself wanting to move exclusively into self-pubbing. Personally, all of the stuff that goes with self-pubbing is a lot more "struggle" than anything I've experienced in trade publishing.

I don't see any reason to put down those who self-publish or imply that they're taking the easy way out or whatever, so why put down those of us who trade publish by implying we're idiots?

BTW this is totally out of place but I saw a softcover of yours at a library and bought it

Hildegarde · Jan 8, 2013

Old Hack said:
Your book might be amazing, but if you don't manage to get it noticed it's going to die on the shelves.

I think this was an EXTREMELY pertinent point that may have been overlooked.

Dogpie - everyone has to take the road that is right for them. But I don't see how all the querying, etc is any harder than trying to get your wee self-pub noticed by the masses. Almost all successful self-published authors (and many not-so-successful ones) put a tremendous amount of time into promoting their books. And that's after the formatting, cover-art, copyediting. . . .

Just sayin'

FCameron · Jan 9, 2013

Since you love to write, consider careers (9-5 jobs) where your employer pays you to write as part of the job description. Write your fiction when you're not writing for your employer.

Here's my story--examples of jobs that improved my writing while being paid.

1. Early on, I was in non-profit research (computer programming), but wrote the methodology sections for more than 250 scientific papers that were published in well-known journals and co-authored a paper that is still cited today. I learned so much from that writing experience.

2. Later, as a manager in a large software company, I had to write, write, write "pitches" to buy software and hardware and get the proposals approved. I also had to write many technical documents and white papers.

3. Same company, different job--I was a marketing strategist for software products, then a marketing manager. I had to write "deliverables" for all the products that were assigned to me. Positioning, sales materials, white papers for business, white papers for technology, conference materials, etc. I wrote most of the time and spoke the rest of the time.

When I decided I wanted to leave the corporate world (I had all of my financial ducks in a row from those years of high salaries), I was prepared.

I've been freelancing, mostly for public relations companies for the travel and tourism industry. It has paid well ($1 per word, with many 2500-word deals per assignment), but I've taken the last year off from that to write what I love-- FICTION!

Will I make money at fiction? Don't know.

Here's the way I see it. I was very successful in my career, but it took me years to get there. I'm a newbie at fiction and I don't expect to be an overnight success and get rich. My expectation is that it will take years to learn, make mistakes, learn, improve, etc. That is why you don't depend upon making money in writing--do something else to pay the bills while you're writing.

Just my personal experience.

How much would you typically make?

Stacia Kane

Girl Detective

Guinea

Old Hack

Such a nasty woman

Bri Perkins

Mr Flibble

They've been very bad, Mr Flibble

Old Hack

Such a nasty woman

AW Admin

Persei

Let it go

Persei

Let it go

Hildegarde

A newb in the fog

FCameron