Norilana Books (Vera Nazarian)

It may be worth noting that Nazarian is not the only writer or editor to go directly to readers for funding. Much as YouTube and other online channels created outlets for work beyond the television networks, crowdfunding sites help writers sidestep the constraints of the Big Five. Pointing a finger at public fundraising doesn't really add to the more valid questions in this thread.

Notice, I am not disputing anyone's reservations about Norilana's longterm survival.

But it does not affect new writers in the same way that Noble Romance or Aspen Mountain Press did. Or the still-extant publishers who are being discussed here in 'Bewares'.

MMo said:

Oh, thank you so much (fe). If everyone follows this policy, it assures that she will never dig her way out

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I'm very sorry that she's going through bankruptcy, foreclosure, near homelessness, family issues and medical problems, and it's wonderful that people want to help her.

But it's not my business to help her or any publisher dig their way out of any hole. This forum looks out for writers, first and foremost.

and further assures that the authors will not see past OR future royalties.

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The writers haven't seen royalties for years now. I have no reason to believe that if we all rally round the flag, keep the faith and buy the books, things will somehow change and Vera Nazarian will pay her authors.

If you really wanted to help Norilana's authors, you might consider purchasing either our books, or, if that is distasteful to you, some of the lovely editions of the classics Norilana has published to give for Christmas or other gifts.

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If Norilana's authors are perfectly satisfied with Vera Nazarian selling their books and keeping all the profits from doing so, then yes, buying their books will help the authors feel good.

But if the authors haven't been paid royalties for years, I don't see how buying their books is helping them financially. And I don't get the impression that all her authors are selfless enough to agree with the "buy our books even if we don't see a penny from the sales" approach.

Queen of Swords said:

The writers haven't seen royalties for years now. I have no reason to believe that if we all rally round the flag, keep the faith and buy the books, things will somehow change and Vera Nazarian will pay her authors.

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Vera omitted the authors on her creditor matrix despite asserting, under penalty of perjury, that all debts were listed.

Let's put it this way: I don't think her attorney would have given her advice to omit anyone.

I can't help but wonder what other kinds of debt were omitted.

Wow, this is astonishing. I've been a member for a long time, obviously don't post much but I read a lot and of all the behavior that I've seen from publishers, this has to be, for me, the saddest and most clueless of publishers. My heart goes out to Vera for her personal troubles and as much as we'd like, those things do interfere with business.

However, that's no excuse to basically rob authors of their money--even if they are willing to stick with her. Despite their willingness, SHE should be honorable and find some way to pay their royalties, not keep their money for herself. It's unethical, it's dishonorable and it's disrespectful.

There are options for her to live if she chooses to listen to good advice. And her statement to Deidre about not going on unemployment? OMG, why wouldn't she? Sure, WE pay that ultimately but I'd much rather see her doing that then taking money from the authors.

I am saddened for her. Before all this blew up, if she had a fund-raiser for herself, I would probably contribute. But when someone is this clueless about proper behavior, doesn't listen to advice and basically steals authors' money, no, not now.

Vera's friends and authors--you are not helping her by being agreeable to what she's doing (I know some of you have been trying to get her to understand--I'm not talking to you <grin>). To supporting her keeping your money. To support her campaigns to release her own books when she should be doing everything in her power to find a way out of her financial woes.

Vera, please talk to someone who can help you. Someone who can counsel you on ethical behavior and how to get out of this mess you are in. Someone you will listen to.

This is wrong, what you are doing. Wrong on many levels ethically and morally and unless things have changed since I've worked for attorneys, using company funds to pay your personal expenses is illegal.

There are people and things that can help you--if only you will listen and realize what you are doing is not healthy or fair--to you or to those authors who have stuck by you at the cost of their own money.

Rather orthogonally -- something that writers should understand when publishers go bankrupt is that the authors are unsecured creditors.

It really does not look good.

- Victoria

Yeah. I'd known about some of it, which is why I was on the sidelines. I am Vera's friend, and I hope she'll come out of this, but even I admit she needs a financial advisor.

Even though she's not open to public query, plenty of other small presses are in similar positions. I'd take from this case the importance of researching *every single publisher*, down to lawsuits and financial history. Because even when someone means well, there may be clear danger signs. Just because they may claim to treat authors like family - coming from a somewhat dysfunctional family myself, there's nothing that acts like a clearer warn-off to me.

Filigree said:

Yeah. I'd known about some of it, which is why I was on the sidelines. I am Vera's friend, and I hope she'll come out of this, but even I admit she needs a financial advisor.

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Which is something I'd asked her to do in 2008 when I still considered her a friend.

I asked her to go to Debtor's Anonymous (which has free online meetings) and get a sponsor.

At that time, I doubted her sobriety, as DA defines the term, with regard to money. I'm even more convinced of that now.

Filigree said:

Even though she's not open to public query, plenty of other small presses are in similar positions. I'd take from this case the importance of researching *every single publisher*, down to lawsuits and financial history. Because even when someone means well, there may be clear danger signs. Just because they may claim to treat authors like family - coming from a somewhat dysfunctional family myself, there's nothing that acts like a clearer warn-off to me.

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What I really wanted to draw attention to here - is that there's a behavior difference.

Night Shade Books had problems, went through a whole process with SFWA. But at no time was the narrative anywhere near similar. There was no long litany of "poor me" posts, fundraisers for the publishers' personal projects, etc.

I get that small businesses go bankrupt. Stuff happens.

I get that there are hard choices. Been there.

My point isn't about those, but about the way the narrative always is brought back to her crises, especially when Vera's criticized. It's never about finding or proposing solutions, it's about making enough crisis noise that other people will feel guilty enough that they won't press the issue.

Feel free to go back through her promotional posts over the last three years -- and just look at how many of them promoted titles by other authors (those not in the public domain) vs. her own titles. (Also recognize that doing so in the future, she's easily able to backdate posts in either LJ or her site, so might want to catch that before it changes. I've been told she's editing posts I've linked to, but haven't bothered looking.)

What I'd wish for Vera more than anything else? That she'd be able to get sober with regard to money and stop focusing everyone on her crisis-in-perpetuity. And that by doing so, she would actually be able to stop being in crisis all the time.

http://debtorsanonymous.org/help/questions.htm

Deirdre said:

What I really wanted to draw attention to here - is that there's a behavior difference.

Night Shade Books had problems, went through a whole process with SFWA. But at no time was the narrative anywhere near similar. There was no long litany of "poor me" posts, fundraisers for the publishers' personal projects, etc.

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Night Shade wasn't who I was thinking of with Filigree's comment. I've seen a number of cases where a small publisher says they're family or otherwise promotes the idea that everyone involved is family/friends and should look out for each other. Which sounds fluffy on the surface, but often turns into an excuse for emotional manipulation. Family keeps things in the family. They don't tell tales to other people. All the problems are due to the editor's illness/house burning down/depression and it would be so nasty to say anything when they're having such a tough time.

The result is a very one-sided family, where the publisher gets away with anything and the authors get the short end of the stick. Even when the authors have a whole lot more bad stuff going on in their lives and really need the money, they'll still be portrayed as the evil ones for daring to speak up about the family or for wanting their money.

This one is a pretty textbook example of that narrative. And to date, I've not seen a thread where such a publisher manages to pull around and get things sorted. Not by running Kickstarters or by getting help from professionals. It's nice to suppose it might happen, but sadly, it likely won't. All authors can really do is get out while they can and watch for the warning signs in future publishers.

Polenth said:

This one is a pretty textbook example of that narrative.

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Exactly. Know what all this reminds me of?

Firefly and Wisp's reasons for not paying authors:

"She had cancer (pancreas once, kidney another, cervical another time,) her house was broken into... no less than 4 friends died... "

Vanilla Heart's reasons for not paying authors:

"I am sick (flu, sinus infection, fell in a hole gardening, food poisoning, etc.)… [FONT=&quot]My husband needs another surgery..."

[/FONT] I don't see how either of these are different from Norilana's reasons for not paying authors.

"The bank took all my money repeatedly and took away the house, And then the City of Los Angeles construction destroyed everything else. And then dad died and mom had cancer, and I nearly died myself.[FONT=&quot]"

ETA : While Dorothy Deering had actual problems with multiple surgeries and a death in the family, she wasn't a well-meaning publisher in way over her head - she was an outright scammer. But the reasons for nonpayment were still similar.
[/FONT]

Queen of Swords said:

I don't see how either of these are different from Norilana's reasons for not paying authors.

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I have to agree. That's one of the things that has struck me most forcibly about all this. I know Vera's troubles are real and her intentions are good, but her explanations sound like those of any deadbeat publisher that--truthfully or not--uses personal and family problems as an excuse for non-performance.

IMO, the best thing she could do in this situation is to own up to the mess, apologize, and stop explaining.

- Victoria

Polenth said:

The result is a very one-sided family, where the publisher gets away with anything and the authors get the short end of the stick. Even when the authors have a whole lot more bad stuff going on in their lives and really need the money, they'll still be portrayed as the evil ones for daring to speak up about the family or for wanting their money.

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The comments in the Facebook discussion (linked to earlier) gave me that impression.

[Person 1] ...Vera, I really could care less about your failure. The discussion is about helping Eugie. Kinda bitter to turn this into "woe is me" as you did with your post.

[Person 2] OMG Since I have been in this field, which I admit is not all that long, I have witnessed a lot of heartless and cruel behavior on the internet between authors, publishers, and even readers. But this is a level that I simply cannot believe. Dear God, [...] What you've said here is just beyond the pale. [...] REALLY?????? This is how you speak to people. Especially someone like Vera who has been open and forthcoming about everything going on in her life which has been nothing but horror. Again I say Dear God, man!!!!! Please rethink what you wrote here.

[Person 3] [...] I understand your anger, [Person 1], and I know you are also personally affected by the current economy and your concern for a friend and writer you love, but but I hope you will offer an apology to Vera.

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From what I've seen online, discussions about the matter often turn into a "who had a harder life" contest (See: https://twitter.com/ilona_andrews/status/388753086589595648), as if the only people allowed to be upset are those who have suffered more than she has. I've had personal experience with this kind of behavior and despise it.

[ETA] I looked at the Indiegogo fundraiser, and this (emphasis mine) caught my eye and annoyed me:

I am a full-time writer and publisher, and this is my day job.
Everyone needs to get paid for their work, whether you are a factory worker, business person, an entertainer, a computer programmer, a librarian, an accountant, a musician, a food industry worker, a contractor, a doctor, an artist, a teacher, a janitor, or a writer.

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*sigh*

victoriastrauss said:

I have to agree. That's one of the things that has struck me most forcibly about all this. I know Vera's troubles are real and her intentions are good, but her explanations sound like those of any deadbeat publisher that--truthfully or not--uses personal and family problems as an excuse for non-performance.

IMO, the best thing she could do in this situation is to own up to the mess, apologize, and stop explaining.

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I agree with your conclusion. However, I'd like her to also drop all remaining rights to others' non-public domain work. Which she has not done. She dropped exclusive rights, but she's still selling books and holding royalties from them. Example.

I tend to take things and people at face value, so I've assumed her troubles are real. However, the question that's been bugging me for almost 5 years: are her intentions good? How does one know?

At some point, it's pretty much indistinguishable from poor intentions.

Grandiose promises without a realistic plan year in, year out, aren't really encouraging.

I've been reading Norilana's Twitter feed and it doesn't look good. Both of these are from October 10:

Why do you think I have resorted to crowdfunsing? So that I could start paying back to everyone I owe! Learn the real story!

And Bank of America took that 30K and STILL took my house away!

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What guarantee is there that if people donate money, buy books or otherwise financially support Vera Nazarian, Bank of America won't take that away too?

I don't doubt that she's been through terrible times, but if someone has "a life emergency one after another for 6 years" (from her Twitter feed), then who's to say the next six years will be any better?

ETA : Just to clarify, if someone wants to help Vera Nazarian financially out of friendship or kindness, or want to buy Norilana's books for enjoyment of those books, that's wonderful. I thought the Flat Earth novels were out of print, and that I'd have to look through used book stores for a copy of Delusion's Master.

What I doubt is that such assistance will lead to Norilana, as a publisher, recovering in any way or the authors getting paid. Because IMO, it's clear that Vera Nazarian's multiple significant problems come first. If donors/book buyers are aware of that and don't mind, then of course it's their money and their call.

More from Twitter:

I am not terrible with money, but I have had too much misfotune in a very short span of time.

I've survied bancruptcy and foreclosure and a cross coutnry move, and death and cancer, and I am doing ALL I can to recover

People came forth to help me because they had more heart than you.

You do not know my life after I came to the United States. Do not dare to judge me.

You do not know my circumstances, nor aparently do you care to find out.

I did NOT reap this, nor did I sow it -- no one can reap this kind of life hell. You judge me without knowing.

If you are in trouble, I am the FIRST person to help you when I can. I am NOT a user. You DON'T know me.

Have you run a publishing company?

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No. Have you?

Deirdre said:

At some point, it's pretty much indistinguishable from poor intentions.

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Agreed. For authors caught in this mess, the bottom line is the same.

- Victoria

Queen of Swords said:

I don't doubt that she's been through terrible times, but if someone has "a life emergency one after another for 6 years" (from her Twitter feed), then who's to say the next six years will be any better?

ETA : Just to clarify, if someone wants to help Vera Nazarian financially out of friendship or kindness, or want to buy Norilana's books for enjoyment of those books, that's wonderful.

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Agreed on the ETA, though I'd rather people buy her authors' books through other means.

I helped her with the fundraiser in 2008 because I'd had a friend who'd committed suicide when his Chapter 13 fell apart after he lost his job and his house was foreclosed upon. I felt guilty that I'd missed the warning signals, and I didn't want anyone I knew to go through that kind of pain. That was about six weeks before the fundraiser started.

There were things Vera said privately to me during the fundraiser (which is on an old hard drive in my garage) via e-mail that led me to believe this was a bigger, longer pattern than what I was seeing. At that point, I quietly stopped talking to her. (Having my PayPal account frozen and the IRS audit where I had to provide documentation of money that came in and was paid out to her didn't help my feelings, either. Why the eff couldn't she have taken the money into her own PayPal account? I don't get that. She had a story about it at the time, though.)

I didn't unfriend her from LJ or Facebook until Eugie's story broke -- and until I heard from several other people about their own stories.

Vera Nazarian now states she will run a Kickstarter in January to pay off her debts to her authors. (Link.)

eqb said:

Vera Nazarian now states she will run a Kickstarter in January to pay off her debts to her authors. (Link.)

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Until this actually happens and the authors receive the funds, I wouldn't hold my breath. After all, as she says, "Crowdfunding for my own book *now* is essential so that I can hang in and not be homeless by the time January comes."

This is what happens when a publishing business has a limited or nonexistent staff, and where one person is in charge of royalties and payments to dozens of authors. There are no checks and balances--no one to keep track of finances and money owed, and the temptation to use book sales income for personal reasons is ever present. I think Night Shades went this route, where expenditure surpassed income and the snowball effect grew into an inevitable mass of dept that brought the business down--who or where were the financial managers here?

I'm very surprised at how many authors have rallied in support around this person, taking the financial hits that they have and will probably continue to endure. There's a pattern here, where one lie, excuse or exaggeration has been used to cover up the real reason for the insolvency. (I recognize this pattern in Rain Books, which imploded because of reckless spending and poor planning).

Yes, no matter what the circumstances, the writers lose here, whether the root problems are justified or not.

Vera Nazarian @Norilana 4h
@beth_bernobich The anthologies have never earned out their advance, I have been paying "nice" money out my own pocket because I wanted to,

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(link)

Vera Nazarian @Norilana 47m
@beth_bernobich That was at the SAME time as I was paying everyone. Both "nice" money AND royalties owed.

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(link)

Advances are "nice" money? I thought they were sums paid to secure works that the paying houses believe will earn them more money in the long run and allow them to keep the lights on and (perhaps) turn a profit.

I thought advances were the results of business decisions.

I'd love some nice money, but not because the publisher was being "nice." I'd like nice money because the publisher knew how to make sound decisions regarding the financial viability of my book, their ability to position it in the market, and their own financial stability on the whole.

Oh, dear. Well, this is one reason why I research pubs before submitting, and tend not to consider very small ones. They may not have the infrastructure to survive. I've been as much or more impoverished than Vera over the last few years, so any support I've given has been non-financial.

I hope she gets back on her feet, but I also hope that contributors go into future fundraisers with both eyes open.

Queen of Swords said:

Until this actually happens and the authors receive the funds, I wouldn't hold my breath. After all, as she says, "Crowdfunding for my own book *now* is essential so that I can hang in and not be homeless by the time January comes."

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I'm not holding my breath either. She's raised or borrowed an enormous amount of money over the past few years, and it's all gone to personal expenses or her own books. However lovely she is in person (and she is), she's terrible at business.

Oh, and as part of that twitter exchange, she asked me to post this here:

http://webnews.sff.net/read?cmd=read&group=sff.people.vera-nazarian&artnum=56767