Swearing by Christian Characters

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Captcha

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I'm trying to understand Christian prohibitions on swearing a bit better.

I understand not using religion-related words, not taking the lord's name in vain, etc.

But is there a reason that scatological or sexual swear words are particularly unacceptable, from a religious perspective?

I can understand an attempt to control anger and turn the other cheek - I can't imagine Jesus dropping a lot of F-bombs. But if a devout Christian IS angry, is there a reason it would be better to use less powerful angry words (Shoot! Fart! or whatever) rather than letting loose with the more traditional ones?

I've watched the Tim Hawkins Christian Cuss Words clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzKvNMgQy0M) and obviously it's meant to be comedy but it was apparently filmed at a church, suggesting some religious approval?

Is there something I'm missing? If I were writing a book about a devout Christian who feels some righteous anger, would it be totally out of the question for that character to use conventional but non-religious swear words?
 

Calla Lily

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Captcha, if you're writing for on of CBA pubs, then your characters better not swear, darn it! Most of them have incredibly strict rules.

If you're writing for any other market, then IMO it's a simple case of what type of Christian your character is. I've read C-fic where the writer ties him/herself in knots to make the characters not swear in any way, shape, or form. When that happens, it often comes across as artificial.

In real life, I know Christians of all flavors. There's me, who's the black sheep at any Christian gathering. :D There's the opposite extreme, who wouldn't say "shit" if a monkey flung it at them, who would say "Jesus help me" if they banged their thumb with a hammer.

I will say that the truly devout Christians I know absolutely will not use "Jesus Christ!" or Goddammit!" as swear words, ever.

So, the answer you know I'm leading up to is "if you have a Christian character who needs to swear, make that character the type of Christian who might swear if driven to it--or who'd swear in fear/anger/pain and then ask forgiveness for the lapse."
 

Captcha

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Captcha, if you're writing for on of CBA pubs, then your characters better not swear, darn it! Most of them have incredibly strict rules.

If you're writing for any other market, then IMO it's a simple case of what type of Christian your character is. I've read C-fic where the writer ties him/herself in knots to make the characters not swear in any way, shape, or form. When that happens, it often comes across as artificial.

In real life, I know Christians of all flavors. There's me, who's the black sheep at any Christian gathering. :D There's the opposite extreme, who wouldn't say "shit" if a monkey flung it at them, who would say "Jesus help me" if they banged their thumb with a hammer.

I will say that the truly devout Christians I know absolutely will not use "Jesus Christ!" or Goddammit!" as swear words, ever.

So, the answer you know I'm leading up to is "if you have a Christian character who needs to swear, make that character the type of Christian who might swear if driven to it--or who'd swear in fear/anger/pain and then ask forgiveness for the lapse."

No, I'm not writing for the Christian market - way over my head!

But it would be something a Christian would have to ask forgiveness for, if s/he swore (not Jesus Christ or Goddammit, but shit or fuck, maybe)? What rule is being broken? Is it a sin, or just... bad manners?
 

ZachJPayne

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I'd only ask forgiveness if it was in front of somebody extremely devout -- an old person or a pastor, perhaps.

As for it being a sin . . . well, I know Jesus was supposed to be flawless, but if anyone wants to tell me that he didn't swear once while being crucified, well, I've got a bridge in my backyard to sell ya.
 

EMaree

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Most of the Christians I know still swear in extreme/painful/stressy situations... with the exception of my mum, who was raised on a very old-fashioned and hugely Christian Scottish island. She can stub her toe and still just shout "SUGAR!"
 

Calla Lily

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Captcha, one of the 10 Commandments is "You shall not take the name of the Lord in vain." I'm not going to get into a discussion of OT vs. NT and what pieces and parts Christians should follow. That way madness lies. :)

However, there are 2 verses in the NT which I'm going to paraphrase because I'm being a lazy slob tonight rather than scour BibleGateway. One is attributed to Jesus, which says basically "If your heart is pure/righteous/devout then what comes out of your mouth will be the same. And vice-versa." The other is from one of Paul's letters which says basically to think/do/say everything that's good and holy and pure because that's what Jesus did and Christians are in the business of imitating Jesus.

So as a general rule, if a devout Christian slips and says "Fuck!" he/she would ask forgiveness in pretty much the next breath.

Did you ever see the 1939 Erroll Flynn Robin Hood movie? When Friar Tuck is bashing the heads of the bad guys in the climactic fight scene, it goes like this:

*lift helmet*
*bash head with medieval whacker*
*raise eyes to Heaven*
Say "Forgive me."
*lather, rinse, repeat*

It's played for laughs, but that's the essence of it. In a very, very lighthearted way.
 

itsmary

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callalily61 gave a pretty good explanation of why Christians aren't really supposed to swear.

As for whether to have a Christian character swear in your ms, it all depends on the character. We're imperfect just like everyone else, and we all slip up, some more than others or in other ways. But that's more a matter of characterization than religion.
 

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So... would there be a distinction between, like "shit" and "crap" and "poo"? They're all referring to the same thing, right? So they'd have the same level of lack of purity/holiness?

My understanding is that the distinction between those words is just a social convention. Is there a theological argument for one of them being worse than the others?
 
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Gena_Skyler

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I have a friend who is a JW and he will occasionally say shit, but only in extreme circumstances. I have never heard him ask for forgiveness. However, Jesus Christ, God Dammit and Fuck are never uttered. Ever.

The thing that really gets me, though, is that he can use gay in an inappropriate manner and retarded in the same breath and not have a problem with it.

So, I think it depends not only on the fact that it is a Christian speaking, but what specifically the Christian believes is sinful. Depending on the denomination there could be very different understandings of which words are acceptable and which ones are not.
 

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No, I'm not writing for the Christian market - way over my head!

But it would be something a Christian would have to ask forgiveness for, if s/he swore (not Jesus Christ or Goddammit, but shit or fuck, maybe)? What rule is being broken? Is it a sin, or just... bad manners?

I'm not a Christian, but I've had plenty of friends and family members who are, and they fall all over the spectrum so far as swearing goes. Whether taking the name of the Lord in Vain is seen as a major, or even minor, sin really depends on how literally one takes the scriptural proscriptions thereof. I know Christians who shrug and say, "Well, technically, we're not supposed to eat pork or cut our hair either, so..."

As for scatological and sexual swear words, that's probably more a matter of temperament and what's normalized within one's community and family of origin than thinking it's a Biblical sin, per say.

Some denominations frown on strong language more than others, and I suspect most Christians don't swear a blue streak in front of their pastors or priests, but I've certainly known Christians (even members of very conservative, evangelical Churches) who swear, crack crude jokes and so on. I commented on this once, to an acquaintance who made a habit of using his evangelical faith to rationalize his personal prejudices but had a mouth that raised even my eyebrows (I think I said, "Jeez, such language from a Christian boy," or something like that), and he shrugged and said, "Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven."

So I think you can probably have Christian characters who fall along the entire spectrum as far as crude language and swearing is concerned. Whether or not they worry about it at all, rationalize it away, or feel guilty about it will probably vary with personal outlook and personality. Whether or not they swear, and how they feel about it when or if they do, is definitely an aspect of characterization.

Like members of any other group, Christians are all individuals (well, except for that guy in the back row who shouted "I'm not," in Life of Brian ;) )
 
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shadowwalker

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Yeah, it's pretty much all over the spectrum, depending on the religion, the 'denomination', individual... My mom would say "damn", but never "God damn", and I pretty much followed her lead. As to damn versus darn, I always figured it didn't matter the words if the feeling was the same, so...
 

K.B. Parker

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Echoing what's already been said. If it's for a Christian market? Avoid it. But I have some very devout family members, and nine out of ten swear. The one word they don't say is GD.
 

frimble3

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Also regarding your particular Christian's background: was he raised a Christian, learned the prohibitions/taboos as a child and never lost them, although they may have weakened? Or was he raised not-particularly Christian, never had the prohibitions/taboos ingrained in him, and lead a somewhat 'loose' life before becoming a Christian?
In the first case, swearing just may not come naturally to him, while in the second, he may struggle to rise above, but under stress he reverts to the words that just come bubbling up from his memory.
 

heyjude

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Probably the answer to your question is "it depends on the Christian." :rolleyes: I do my very best not to swear, and yes, I breathe a prayer when I do. I have friends who do swear mildly and it doesn't seem to bother them.

So... would there be a distinction between, like "shit" and "crap" and "poo"? They're all referring to the same thing, right? So they'd have the same level of lack of purity/holiness?

My understanding is that the distinction between those words is just a social convention. Is there a theological argument for one of them being worse than the others?

No argument to my knowledge, but I wouldn't use "shit" in normal conversation. Or, almost ever, actually.

Our worship leader accidentally said "crap" in worship recently. We got on his case about it for weeks. He will probably never live it down. But it was good-hearted teasing. If he'd have said "shit", it would have been a different conversation, taking place in the pastor's office, with prayer. :tongue
 

EMaree

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As for scatological and sexual swear words, that's probably more a matter of temperament and what's normalized within one's community and family of origin than thinking it's a Biblical sin, per say.

Yeah, this is a big consideration in my experience -- far less of the ladies raised in ultra-Christian communities around here swear compared to the guys, because of the strict gender expectations and the pressure on them to be "ladylike".
 

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I posted a reply to this subject in an earlier thread. Rather than make anyone search for it, I'm adding it here:

There is a distinct difference between "cursing" and "cussing" which many people do not make.

Cussing is foul language and we all know what that is.

Cursing, however, is a very serious thing. When you curse your are literally calling upon unearthly powers (heavenly or otherwise) to either witness, or to act in your favor against another person. Damn you, Damn you to hell, or God damn you, are examples of a person cursing another person and calling upon God to damn that person to hell. This is serious stuff. You really, really need a good reason to do this. Even then it's dicey.

Swearing, is also serious. Phrases like, By all that's holy... As God is my witness, even God forbid are examples. Invoking the Trinity, or the Holy Family, to either witness your words or actions is also serious and should be deeply considered.

There are examples of "righteous" cursing. In the prayer to the Archangel Michael Catholics pray, ...and do Thou, Prince of the heavenly host, by the power of God cast into hell Satan, and all the evil spirits, who wander through the world seeking the ruin of souls. This too is serious stuff.

I remember Sister Mary Frivolous giving me what for, for saying Hell on the school playground. I explained to her that Hell isn't profanity, it's geography. She was not amused.

Whether you use cussing, swearing, or cursing in your work is up to you, but ponder long and hard on what you're trying to convey. Use the tailor's rule. Measure twice, and cut once. Good Luck!
C
 
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Cathy C

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My grandparents were very devout Norwegian Lutherans. But they were also farm stock and accidents would happen on occasion. My grandmother would utter "Oofda" (or alternately Uff Da--a Norwegian term meaning Oh my goodness or I'm so sorry to hear that) with varying levels of strength. Trust me, you can tell from a distance what word it might replace... ;)

My grandfather used "Horsefeathers" or "Shoot"
 

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... unwed girl accused a Zen monk of fathering her child. When the monk was confronted he simply said, "Is that so?" The village lashed out at the monk and ostracized him. Ultimately the girl felt some pangs of conscious and confessed that she'd made up the charge. "Is that so?" replied the monk.

So in essence, when one is attuned to the spiritual side of life, via religion of any sort, issues like anger aren't a factor to begin with. One won't cuss not b/c they are exercising restraint, but b/c there isn't any anger there to begin with. That is my impression at least and the reason why a religious work does not have cussing in it. Not b/c there is moral restraint, but more so b/c the characters are beyond that, e.g. as result of appreciating life in a broader sense instead of filtered thru egos.
 
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Calla Lily

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An interesting concept, Ken. I'm an old broad and I've only met one person who never got angry, never used "language" of any kind. She was a very old, very sweet nun.

In fiction, however, I wonder if such a character would appear 2D without a lot of work on the author's part.
 

heyjude

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Not b/c there is moral restraint, but more so b/c the characters are beyond that, e.g. as result of appreciating life in a broader sense instead of filtered thru egos.

Oh, to be that perfect. ;) I'd love to be there.
 

Ken

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In fiction, however, I wonder if such a character would appear 2D without a lot of work on the author's part.

... it would be a challenge. Partly b/c spirituality isn't something that can really be put into words and spelled out. If the protag is a nun or monk or minister it'd be easier to convince readers, but with an ordinary person who merely reads their bible and tries to gain an appreciation of the world in a larger sense it would be much more difficult. Adam Bede by George Elliot was sorta like that if I recall correctly. Clarissa too by Richardson. Maybe we live in a jaded age. Shh ;-)

Oh, to be that perfect. ;) I'd love to be there.

... maybe; maybe not. Being beyond anger would be great in a spirtual sense, but in an everyday sense not so much so perhaps. Spiritual life and everyday life seem at odds at times. G'luck in any event. You seem well on your way in my estimation :)
 

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I remember trying to read both Adam Bede and Clarissa. Couldn't finish them. There's a whole list of books with protags like that written within a few decades of each other that I couldn't slog through.

The book We Two by Edna Lyall (pubbed around the turn of the last century, I think) does interesting things with the perception of religion and how it changes its adherents. It's a syrupy romance in parts but the MCs are atheists in a strongly Christian society and thus the book turns expectations upside down. I found it by accident in a used bookstore. The syrup is strong in it, tho.
 

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“God” is not the name of God, but a common phrase used to refer to deities in general. How can a generic classification be considered a formal name? It would be like you saying that my name is “person.” God gives His name to Moses in the book of Exodus. His name is Yahweh.

"God Damn" has no more weight than "God Bless" in as far as being blasphemous or sacrilegious... or maybe it's the thought that matters. In that case we shall all rot in Dante's hell.
 

Calla Lily

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jimmymc, that is true to a point, but this thread is talking about Christian characters in books. As has been said upthread, if a character is raised to consider a word as blasphemous, then for that character, if they say it, they're sinning.

So, yes, it's the belief that matters here, IMO.
 

Ken

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... We Two seems interesting. Always like books with protags at odds. Will investigate :)

(Free on Kindle. If only I had one, sigh.)
 
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