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Wanderluster

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Thank you all for the words of encouragement.

You said it perfectly, Arachne - it's just so charming. "It's funny, it's witty, it'll make sense in book 4, I swear!"

Joy, what is a CP? It sounds like you've got a trusted team in place - that must be invaluable. And no, I'm not starting in the middle of jarring action - aka Unknown Protagonists run through the forest chased by unknown pursuers while branches whip their skin. Bonus if they are concurrently turning into werewolves and/or vampires. I promise I'm not doing that.

Congratulations, SissyBaby, on the positive feedback for your PBs. May it turn into a commitment soon!

Laura, I just looked up Style that Sizzles on Amazon. The author quotes from several other books that also sound good: James Scott Bell's Revision & Self-Editing; Jessica Page Morrell's Thanks, But This Isn't For Us; etc. All of these look like great resources. You've just given me my homework for the next few days.

MsJudy, I do the same thing. All my projects are fondly and colloquially named for my MCs. Congrats to Charlotte, and may Jack finds his villain, but poor Agatha. I hope she comes out of the closet soon. Um... I mean... you know.
 

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MsJudy - I didn't even realize I did the character thing until I read your post and went back to my Word Document list. HA! Every ms. has a one word title that is the MC's name. How weird that I wasn't even aware of it.
 

DavidBrett

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Welcome to the gang, WanderLuster!

I'm TRYING to work on the second Enigma Files book CURSED, but it's not happening :p I'm too busy freaking out over the coming results of the PitchWars contest, reacting like an editing loon to every tweet from the mother of my 10yo beta-twins (they're getting bored - they LOVE IT - they're confused - they ABSOLUTELY love it! Auugh!), and trying to sleep :p

Hope everyone's having better luck with their nerves than I...

Dave
 

Wanderluster

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Thanks, Joy.

David, congrats on the twins' love affair with your ms! Must be gratifying.

I would love to have some betas who are in the age-range of my audience - about 10-13. Unfortunately, I don't know any kids! I have no nieces or nephews, know no teachers, and have no friends with kids that age. I worry that contacting a school or teacher with no introduction or references may be frowned-upon.

I'm guessing many of you have a built-in network of young beta readers, but does anyone have advice on how to find kid readers if you don't have any relationship to them?
 

djrashn

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I have kids, but even teachers I don't know or who haven't taught my children, don't seem to mind finding a few kids to do some reading.
 

Wanderluster

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Thanks, dj. I wasn't sure if teachers or parents would feel it was inappropriate (or just not part of their syllabus!), but it sounds like that's not necessarily the case. I'll try some local middle school teachers when my first chapters are polished and ready. Appreciate the advice.
 

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Thanks, dj. I wasn't sure if teachers or parents would feel it was inappropriate (or just not part of their syllabus!), but it sounds like that's not necessarily the case. I'll try some local middle school teachers when my first chapters are polished and ready. Appreciate the advice.

You could ask in the beta readers section (maybe a parent wouldn't mind volunteering their kid), but I would suggest having your whole manuscript polished and ready to share. A kid might be pretty choked if you get them to read 2 chapters and they like it but they can't read any more b/c it's not ready. quan ao nam ao nguc do dung cho be vest cong so nu vest cong so nu trang phuc ngay cuoi
 
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DavidBrett

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You could ask in the beta readers section (maybe a parent wouldn't mind volunteering their kid), but I would suggest having your whole manuscript polished and ready to share. A kid might be pretty choked if you get them to read 2 chapters and they like it but they can't read any more b/c it's not ready.

And woe betide you if they REALLY like your finished book, and immediately want the sequel even though you've only. Just. Started. It.
 
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If you have homeschoolers near you, they can be great betas. The parents often read too, either aloud or separately.

Some of my best feedback came from homeschool kids, many of them tend to read widely and voraciously, and have no problem being honest.

You might be able to find a homeschool group online and contact someone that way.
 

Wanderluster

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Great suggestions, thank you everyone!

profen, I'll have the whole book polished when I do most of my beta-ing, but I'd like to get a temperature reading first. Until recently I believed my WIP was YA, and now that I know I'm really writing an Upper MG, I want to make sure the language isn't too sophisticated (read: boring) for a 10 year old. Then again, I just saw Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials series in the MG section of Barnes & Noble, so if 10 year olds are reading that...

Britwriter, great idea looking for homeschoolers! I'll see if I can find a group online.

David, I take it that means the 10-year-old twin betas loved your book. Congrats! I also saw that you won the PitchWars contest - double congrats! I looked for the post where you shared the tweet that garnered all this attention but couldn't find it. I remember something about x-files for kids. Would you mind sharing it again? I'd like to see what a successful 128 character pitch looks like!
 

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Oh! I just saw that Britwriter and Monkeymum also placed in the PitchWars contest! Congratulations! What a talented group of writers this is!
 

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I'm not sure if this is the right place to pose this question or not (so if not my apologies!)

In your opinions, what is the appropriate word count on an upper middle-grade fantasy/adventure type of piece?
 

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DavidBrett

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David, I take it that means the 10-year-old twin betas loved your book. Congrats! I also saw that you won the PitchWars contest - double congrats! I looked for the post where you shared the tweet that garnered all this attention but couldn't find it. I remember something about x-files for kids. Would you mind sharing it again? I'd like to see what a successful 128 character pitch looks like!

Hi WL! I think you're getting the PitchWars and Pitchmas contests mixed up - the latter is the one with the tweet-pitches that got the interest of an agent. If I can find one, I'll paste it here.

ETA: Here's the one!

The school 'freak' may be the only one who can figure out the mystery of the Phantom Thief in this 'X-Files for kids' MG adventure #PitchMas

PitchWars was a case of emailing your ideal mentors your query and first five pages. Jennifer Malone asked for more chapters - next thing I know, she'd chose me! She's reading the full MS tonight.

Dave
 
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Then again, I just saw Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials series in the MG section of Barnes & Noble, so if 10 year olds are reading that...

As an elementary school librarian and former middle school teacher, I can count on one hand the number of students who read Philip Pullman in its entirety. Most check it out and return it the following day because it is "too wordy."

I have used grades at my school as beta testers...letting them know the author is a friend of mine who wants honest feedback. They are brutally honest! For several students, the biggest problem they had with the readings of my books were that they could not check them out yet.
 

Wanderluster

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As an elementary school librarian and former middle school teacher, I can count on one hand the number of students who read Philip Pullman in its entirety. Most check it out and return it the following day because it is "too wordy."

I have used grades at my school as beta testers...letting them know the author is a friend of mine who wants honest feedback. They are brutally honest! For several students, the biggest problem they had with the readings of my books were that they could not check them out yet.

Yes, it would take a special 10 year old to read His Dark Materials, though 12 or 13 year olds might be able to pull it off, and Pullman's Sally Lockhart trilogy is a bit lighter. Fortunately, my prose is nowhere near as dense - nor is it as beautiful - as Pullman's!

As a teacher/librarian, you have your beta testers built into your job, which I imagine is handy. Telling them that the author is a friend is clever. I'm glad you get such brutal honesty, and have them clamoring for more - that's a good sign! :)
 

DavidBrett

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So, in case you missed my little episode last night, I now have a new(ish) laptop, but it doesn't have Windows XP validated, I can't get online or have a disc to do it, and my hard drive used to make it work no longer has Microsoft Office or a validated OS.

So just a quick question to all you writery peeps: which is better? Open Office or Libre Office?

Dave
 

Wanderluster

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So, in case you missed my little episode last night, I now have a new(ish) laptop, but it doesn't have Windows XP validated, I can't get online or have a disc to do it, and my hard drive used to make it work no longer has Microsoft Office or a validated OS.

So just a quick question to all you writery peeps: which is better? Open Office or Libre Office?

Dave

Hey Dave. It sounds like you have more fundamental issues than just which WP to use. How are you planning on resolving the OS issue? Are you just waiting to get it validated?

I have experience with Open Office on a Windows laptop, and it worked perfectly well, however I had a bad experience when I upgraded to MS Office on a Mac and none of the OO files would translate. I had to convert the files to MS Office on my PC, then transfer them to the Mac, but in doing so I lost all the timestamps on the files, so I could no longer see when I created and last edited each version.

This is a very specific experience, and it's not relevant if you're not going to switch to a Mac, but I mention it just in case.

I'm also weary of using anything but MS Word to send files to agents. Even if you save it as a .docx, you have no guarantees that it won't screw up your formatting on the agent's end. Just a thought.

If you can, invest the $99 to get a student version of MS Office (I think that's how much it was when I bought it a few years ago). Anyone can buy a student version, and it has all the functionality we writers needs - I don't notice any differences between it and the professional version. Even if you install a license on an OS, and then upgrade the OS, or even change machines (as long as it's PC -> PC or Mac -> Mac), you can keep that license and reinstall it as necessary.

Good luck, whatever you decide!
 

DavidBrett

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Not to worry, folks (thanks though, WL) - I've contacted the friend who sorted the laptop out and he's going to take it back on Monday to validate the OS and instal Office 2007. So I'm happy once more...

... Unless Libre Office has similar file conversion problems. I'd hate to lose all my files just because Word can't understand LO file code...

Dave
 

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Hey Dave. It sounds like you have more fundamental issues than just which WP to use. How are you planning on resolving the OS issue? Are you just waiting to get it validated?

I have experience with Open Office on a Windows laptop, and it worked perfectly well, however I had a bad experience when I upgraded to MS Office on a Mac and none of the OO files would translate. I had to convert the files to MS Office on my PC, then transfer them to the Mac, but in doing so I lost all the timestamps on the files, so I could no longer see when I created and last edited each version.

This is a very specific experience, and it's not relevant if you're not going to switch to a Mac, but I mention it just in case.

I'm also weary of using anything but MS Word to send files to agents. Even if you save it as a .docx, you have no guarantees that it won't screw up your formatting on the agent's end. Just a thought.

If you can, invest the $99 to get a student version of MS Office (I think that's how much it was when I bought it a few years ago). Anyone can buy a student version, and it has all the functionality we writers needs - I don't notice any differences between it and the professional version. Even if you install a license on an OS, and then upgrade the OS, or even change machines (as long as it's PC -> PC or Mac -> Mac), you can keep that license and reinstall it as necessary.

Good luck, whatever you decide!

I just started a thread regarding Open Office and submissions in the Basic Writing forum. Have you had a bad experience with submitting OO or LO files? Do you know of anybody that has?
 

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Thanks, Ruth! I'll also link in the YA sticky about it :)