Young Writers Dazzle Publisher (Mom and Dad)

[BenPanced]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/01/us....html?ref=arts

It's pretty much about "pay to play"; Author Solutions and iUniverse are two of the better known companies mentioned.

[blacbird]

Of course not, you cynical bastard. As we all know, from any number of posts and threads right here at AW, the only thing that matters is the quality of the manuscript.

caw

[James D. Macdonald]

Originally Posted by blacbird

Of course not, you cynical bastard. As we all know, from any number of posts and threads right here at AW, the only thing that matters is the quality of the manuscript.

caw

Yes, if it is brilliant.

And yes, if it is dreadful.

But there are more publishing slots than brilliant manuscripts, and the dreadful manuscripts won't get 'em. So who will?

Hint: Not the ones that go to vanity presses.

[Kewii]

Originally Posted by BenPanced

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/01/us....html?ref=arts

It's pretty much about "pay to play"; Author Solutions and iUniverse are two of the better known companies mentioned.

I've always hated the pay to play things that target kids the most. I was in a teaching conference about a month ago and our instructor was talking about encouraging kids to to write through self-publishing.

I'm not against self-publishing. And I do believe it could be a self-motivator. But he mentioned KidsPub, which was mentioned in that article.

We looked at the website while we were in the class and there were a few red flags. I finally spotted the $250 bill for it. I actually ended up educating the instructor a bit about self-publishing. He promised to never suggest KidsPub again.

I think as a parent, I wouldn't be against letting my kid self-publish early work. But I also wouldn't be going around trying to make a lot of sales for it. It would very much be "look, here's your book! I got you a copy for grandma and papa too."

I think it could be nice for the kid to look back on someday--whether they end up wanting to be a writer or not.

[shaldna]

I absolutely loved the fact that Google ads placed an add for iUniverse at the bottom of that page.

[HoneyBadger]

Remember Rebecca Black's song and video Friday? (Here's how much Rebecca made from the song and video, according to her mom: $0.)

It's more of the same. Parents doing things to "support" and "help" their kids achieve their dreams that likely will have no positive repercussions for the child in the short term or later in life.


Jesus christ I love Tom Robbins so much:

“What’s next?” asked the novelist Tom Robbins. “Kiddie architects, juvenile dentists, 11-year-old rocket scientists? Any parent who thinks that the crafting of engrossing, meaningful, publishable fiction requires less talent and experience than designing a house, extracting a wisdom tooth, or supervising a lunar probe is, frankly, delusional.”

“There are no prodigies in literature,” Mr. Robbins said. “Literature requires experience, in a way that mathematics and music do not.”

[Phaeal]

If I were to self-publish my kid, I'd ACT like a publisher.

First, he'd have to polish that MS until it shone (lots of rewrites and resubs, I imagine.)

Second, he'd have to submit to me a detailed marketing plan. If I accepted it, he'd have to sign a contract obliging him to follow through with the marketing plan. A list of pre-sales would determine the initial print run.

Third, if he didn't want to do the above (that is, act like a pro), I'd just have a few copies printed off as gifts for family and friends. As many as the kid was willing to pay for himself. Hey, kid, here's the difference between vanity and pro. Vanity pays, pro gets paid.

Self-esteem comes from real achievement, not from parental subsidies. Praise the kid for the hard work of even producing a book-length script (or story or whatever.) Maybe even print one copy for him. But pretend that just any old MS deserves commercial or quasi-commercial publication? Nope.

Now, if the kid really had written a book I thought worthy of commercial publication, I'd tell him to get an agent.

Oh, and when Six catches up with Avatar Thief, well, it's not going to be pretty....

[Katrina S. Forest]

This frustrates me on so many levels:

1. The amount the parents are paying. I'm not sure if they think that's the normal cost to self-publish or if they just think that more money automatically means better quality, but some of the prices in that article are beyond insane.

2. The fact that, as far as I can tell, none of the parents tried encouraging their teens to submit to competitive markets first, not even markets exclusively for young writers. Teens are old enough to understand that not everyone gets a trophy just for showing up to the game.

3. The idea that just putting the book "out there" constitutes an accomplishment or the fulfillment of a lifelong dream. It's the equivalent of framing a drawing you're really proud of and saying, "It's always been my dream to hang a picture on the wall." The achievement was finishing their first book-length manuscript, hopefully the first of many, progressively better manuscripts. Printing a few copies might be a way to celebrate that accomplishment, but it's not an accomplishment in itself.

[Libbie]

All I can think of is the Maradonia books. *shudder*

[brainstorm77]

When reality hits them when they're older, it's going to be hard.

[Phaeal]

Originally Posted by brainstorm77

When reality hits them when they're older, it's going to be hard.

Nah. Mommy and Daddy have installed reality-blockers on all entrances to their in-law, er, eternal child apartment.

[Mr. Anonymous]

eh, I think you guys are overreacting a bit.

Yeah, it's a little sad that the parents are probably not aware of how self-publishing their kid's books isn't really going to help much in the long term, as far as pursuing a professional writing career.

That said, I think for a kid to write a book is a pretty extraordinary accomplishment, whether it gets published or not. And if parents want to spend their money helping make their kid's dream a reality, who are you to tell them they shouldn't?

Again, I think it would be better if the kids + their parents were more informed about the process than I assume they are. But even if they did sub to agents + traditional publishers, the chances of getting picked up at that age are probably incredibly, incredibly low. Virtually zero, I'd say.

So why not give an alternate route a shot, if the kids and their parents decide that's what they want to do?

I'm really not seeing much harm here.

[Kelly Creighton]

Originally Posted by Mr. Anonymous

But even if they did sub to agents + traditional publishers, the chances of getting picked up at that age are probably incredibly, incredibly low. Virtually zero, I'd say.

Yes, and it's the same now no matter what your age. Hence, the self-publishing revolution. Realistically speaking, there is no other viable alternative.

[MysteryRiter]

^True.

There's no reason to overreact. It's sad to see the parents spending all of that money and also sad that the kids are going to flaunt being published for the next few years, then realize that they actually aren't and feel embarassed.

However, what does vanity-publishing a book like this teach you? Nothing. You're never too young to learn. If the kids are thinking that their writing is "publishable" at that stage, how are they going to improve? For me, I'm glad that I learned that my writing sucked at such a young age. I feel like I've come a long way from there and my writing is actually somewhat decent. Those kids aren't going to learn, and the parents will keep them under the misconception that they're talented writers for a long time, I assume.

It's harmless, but doesn't progress anyone.

Random aside: Why did the article writer keep saying that publishing through Xilbris was self-publishing? Is self-publishing an umbrella category now?

[KimJo]

Originally Posted by MysteryRiter

Random aside: Why did the article writer keep saying that publishing through Xilbris was self-publishing? Is self-publishing an umbrella category now?

Some people don't comprehend the difference between self-publishing and vanity publishing; they call any pay-to-publish thing "self-publishing." I've lost count of how many times I've had to explain the difference to people who've said things like, "Oh, I'm going to be self-published through iUniverse" or "If you ever self-published, what company would you use?"

[maybegenius]

The thing I'm worrying about is parents bolstering their kid up and telling them what a special snowflake they are, thus potentially setting up a future adult with a lot of entitlement issues. WHAT DO YOU MEAN THIS ISN'T PUBLISHABLE MATERIAL? DON'T YOU KNOW I WAS PUBLISHED AT 12? YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

But then, that's nothing new. Parents have been doing that to their kids for a looooooong time. Everybody thinks their kid is a genius. I don't see this as much different than any parent who shells out money for acting lessons or buys their kid an expensive guitar because he wants to be a rock star. And hey, if it really is boosting the kids' self-confidence, I'm okay with that. Provided "self-confidence" doesn't evolve into "I deserve everything right now." But those sort of people are always going to exist, probably.

[James D. Macdonald]

The vanity publishers have gone out of their way to re-brand themselves as self-publishers, without changing their business model in the slightest.

[thothguard51]

Parents pay a lot of $$$ for their kids to do dance, sports, music, art and even summer camps. Not all these kids go on to a career as a professional dancer, athlete, musician, or artist, but the kids do learn things they would not have otherwise.

I see nothing wrong with parents doing these things, so long as it is not the parent pushing the child and also explaining things to a child so they understand hard work is what makes one successful.

As to a parent publishing a child's novel, again, I see nothing wrong with this anymore than I do with sending my kid to soccer camp. Hell, I even do it for my grand daughter if she ask. But, I will also be there to explain to her all the issues about self publishing and writing in general.

[HoneyBadger]

It's like the difference between piano lessons and hiring a studio to record your kid's piano playing then paying for the CD to be made and then making a music video.


One of those things will be good for your kid long-term. Not so much the other one, unless your kids are Will Smith's kids, but I'm not sure they're going to turn out to be the most stable, level-headed folks, either.

[HoneyBadger]

OH! ALSO! THIS IS INCREDIBLY GERMANE!

[Mr. Anonymous]

^ I agree with Thothguard. Granted, mysterywriter has a point, in that rejection forces writers to get better. But I think we're all assuming that these kids are going to become professional writers (and therefore, better to get rejected early and get better early than buy into a false conception of publication and learn the hard way later...) But maybe they're not. Is spending 500-1000 dollars self-publishing a novel really that different from spending 500-1000 dollars on music lessons? Tae-kwon-do lessons? Etc? I'm not sure it is.

And there's more to consider here than just the writing aspect. There's also the business management side. Making the kid keep a budget, keep track of profits/losses, learn to promote/advertise, schedule events, I feel like that could be worth the investment in and of itself.

[fadeaccompli]

Originally Posted by Mr. Anonymous

^ I agree with Thothguard. Granted, mysterywriter has a point, in that rejection forces writers to get better. But I think we're all assuming that these kids are going to become professional writers (and therefore, better to get rejected early and get better early than buy into a false conception of publication and learn the hard way later...) But maybe they're not. Is spending 500-1000 dollars self-publishing a novel really that different from spending 500-1000 dollars on music lessons? Tae-kwon-do lessons? Etc? I'm not sure it is.

I'd say it's the difference between paying for piano lessons and paying a bunch of people to show up at your piano recital and applaud.

I see nothing wrong at all with paying for some sort of Helping Kids Learn To Write Lessons, as with any other lessons, whether or not the kids are going on to a career of it. Paying to publish their stuff--and not in the "print out a few copies for family" sense, but the whole vanity press deal--seems...well, "wrong" is too strong a word, but at least "ill-advised" and "not particularly useful".

My parents paid for me to take watercolor classes. I produced quite a few clumsy little watercolor paintings, and they helped me get them matted and give them to family members as gifts. That seems pretty reasonable. But if they'd tried to make hundreds of prints of my clumsy little paintings and sell them to other people, that would've been...again, not necessarily wrong, but certainly an odd use of the funds.

[HoneyBadger]

One of them requires effort and continued practice to achieve a standard level of proficiency.

One of them is "fame" in a box and requires nothing more than someone willing to sign a check.

[Mr. Anonymous]

Honeybadger,

One of them requires effort and continued practice to achieve a standard level of proficiency.

Both writing and music lessons require effort and continued practice to achieve a standard level of proficiency. Does that mean that everyone who doesn't achieve that standard level of proficiency has wasted their time/money? I'm not sure about that. And even if you feel that way, it's not your time or your money that was wasted, right? So why do you care?

One of them is "fame" in a box and requires nothing more than someone willing to sign a check.

It also requires someone who's willing to write a novel. I think that's a pretty big deal. Especially for a kid.

And incidentally, lots of future writers, I'm sure, get their start through self-publishing type ventures. I believe both George R. R. Martin and Stephen King printed up stories and sold them to classmates, for instance.

Kids will have plenty of rejection in their lives, whether or not they try to become professional writers. I don't see anything wrong with giving them a little push forward to get them started.

[BenPanced]

Originally Posted by Mr. Anonymous

Kids will have plenty of rejection in their life, whether or not they try to become professional writers. I don't see anything wrong with giving them a little push forward to get them started.

True, but this is article is about instant gratification. You wrote a book? Mommy and Daddy will pay for it to be published YAY! You wrote another book? Mommy and Daddy will also pay for it to be published YAY! How is a child supposed to learn about rejection and perseverance, two important things you need to know if you're going to even try to get published, if Mommy and Daddy are signing the checks to make the dream come true? If nobody is explaining to the child how commercial publishing works in relation to self-publishing and how Mommy and Daddy aren't always going to pay for it, he/she is in for a rude awakening when they ask Random House or Penguin how much it's going to cost. (Hell, I was trying to learn about the submission process when I was as young as 12 or 13 years old.)