Cannibalizing my novel for a short story

[Ralyks]

I’m putting this thread under novels, but I suppose it could just as well go under short fiction.
I have a short story that is taken from a novel I wrote. About 4,500 of the 5,000 words are in the novel. The other 500 were added to make the short story work. I am currently submitting the novel to small press publishers. The full (novel) ms. is under consideration by two publishers at the moment and several unanswered queries are still out. I am thinking of submitting the short story to paying magazines after I hear back from the two novel fulls (assuming I get negative responses), but possibly while I still have unanswered querries out. Is this a bad idea? If I were to get the story published in a magazine, would that likely negatively (or positively) affect my chances of getting the novel from which it is taken published at some future date?
As an aside, does anyone else cannibalize their novels for stories? If so, when do you do so, and why?

[writingismypassion]

Submitting the short to magazines while subbing the full to publishers at the same time sounds like a really bad idea. And my first instinct is to say that having the short published by a magazine will decrease your chances of getting the full published later on. I'm not an expert, though. Those are just my two cents.

[amschilling]

Deleted: Greater minds than mine have spoken below, so follow what they say.

[Cathy C]

Do I? On occasion. But if I cannibalize, I normally take it out of the final book. It's a cut and paste, not a copy and paste. For example, there's a chapter that was originally in our current book that didn't fit with the tone of the surrounding chapters. The editor suggested we cut out the chapter. Because it was a job the MC was on, it'll become a short at a later time, once I flesh it out a little.

As for whether it's a good idea, it depends. If you got the excerpt pubbed in a well-known magazine like Redbook, Alfred Hitchcock or Woman's Day, it could actually HELP the novel sell. But a poor quality venue could hurt it.

You can probably sell first rights to a novel and withhold first serial rights. But no publisher will allow you to keep second serial rights (the right to reprint). Here's a pretty good explanation of serial rights and how they can be used by authors.

[BethS]

Patrick Rothfuss took an excerpt from his unpublished manuscript, entered it in the Writers of the Future contest, and won. The story was published in an anthology.

As a result of this, he meet another author who introduced him to his agent who got him a publishing contract.

What I don't know is if Rothfuss had been in the querying process during the time he submitted an entry to the contest. He had been querying prior to that, I know, and for some time.

[augusto]

I'd say you should brag about it in your query, by all means!

[eyeblink]

Originally Posted by Jamesaritchie

Nothing wrong with it at all. It's a common practice, and the publisher still get first rights, though first rights has little to no meaning for novels, anyway.

But portions of novels published as short stories, or actual excerpts from novel, is a common, common practice, and doing one interferes with the other in no way.

Publishers buy novels because they think readers will buy them. Period. Your royalty rate will stay the same, and so will everything else. Many a writer has sold a novel, had that novel go out of print, and then sold it again to a different publisher because the second publisher believed there was still a market.

Publishers simply buy the right to publish a novel. Sometimes they buy only the right to be the sole publisher in hardcover, or in paperback, though usually with some electronic deal thrown in. But when and if the novel goes out of print, a different publisher can still buy it. They can, in fact, often buy exactly the same rights the first publisher bought, which is simply the right to be the sole publisher until and unless the novel goes out of print.

Publishers also buy book right from other publishers, and the rights they buy have nothing to do with first rights, or with reprint rights. They simply buy the right to be the sole publisher until and unless they allow the book to go out of print.

Serial rights to a short story play no part in novel rights, even when the short story is taken from the novel. The two things are still separate entities, and with separate rights.

I've sold short stories taken from western novels twice, and from a mystery novel once.

I've also turned a short story into a novel, and a novel into a short story, selling both.

Seconded. This is done all the time, and the only problems you would have would be if you'd sold all rights to the short story - which you should not do anyway.

I'll add that when you do sell the novel, it's good form to put a note of the previous short story publication on your copyright or acknowledgement page, along the lines of "Chapter 3 was published in a different form as "[short story title]" in [Magazine title]".

[Ralyks]

Thanks, all, for the excellent info.! And I'm assuming, if a story is published that is part of a novel, and you later query agents / publishers about the novel, you need to say in your query letter something to the effect of "a ___-word excerpt from this novel was published as a short story in ___." Or is that info you should reserve for later and not include in the initial query itself?