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Old 05-19-2012, 08:56 PM   #1
Diana Hignutt
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Diana's Birther Retraction
Sorry, folks, but I can't let accusations of racism go unanswered.

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/...d.php?t=245263

I've done a great deal more research since the dust up yesterday regarding Obama's literary agent's alleged screw up on his bio.

While I am convinced that Obama thought the being born in Kenya thing would make him seem cooler and more international--when he never dreamt of the presidency--and I believe he is at fault by virtue of this early mild deception for some small portion of birtherism.

That said, with more research under my belt, because I blew this business off the first time around, and I am famously distrustful of mainstream media, I am nonetheless convinced of his rightful occupation of his current office, ie. he's American and our President. And that there is a fair amount of birtherism being foisted by racism.

However, I repudiate that any criticism of Obama is racist. That is farcical hyperbole. I voted for the guy. And, I've said way worse things about Bush, btw.

Now, it is not widely know that it was Nighttimer who interceding with Mac and got me unbanned from P&CE, and he now regrets that (he told me). I will leave AW if that is his wish.

But, I will only go...if the world knows...I am not a racist and I don't appreciate being called one. There is the obvious fact that Obama has lied and claimed to have been born in Kenya for his own purposes, which eventually backfired when he became president. That seems almost certain to me. But, I don't think that makes me a birther. I agree yesterday, I got carried away, and did initially buy some birther junk. I got called out on it. I double checked and reexamined the evidence. Those of you who've know me here, should be aware that I do reconsider my position all the time, when presented evidence.

If you think that makes me racist, well you're gonna think what you're gonna think. I know better.
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Old 05-19-2012, 08:59 PM   #2
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Nighttimer is pretty heavy handed with the R-word. I thought there was a lot wrong with your stance. But you seemed to have cleared it up.

I'd be surprised if anyone here actually thought you were racist. A little batty, perhaps, but in an equal opportunity way.
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Old 05-19-2012, 09:03 PM   #3
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I never thought you racist for a minute. A conspiracy theorist, yeah, but not a racist.

You're a good person, Diana, and thoughtful, and I'm glad you're here at P&CE. I really hope you stay.
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Old 05-20-2012, 03:51 AM   #4
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I never thought you were a racist. I think nighttimer is quick to call people out on issues of racism, and I think he may do so sometimes without thinking. I'm not judging him - I'm sure he has his reasons.

But, I never once have thought you were a racist. A little nuts with your conspiracy theories? Yup. Sorry, but that doesn't mean I don't love you.

I would be sad to see you go. I would genuinely miss you, and I know I'm not the only one.
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Old 05-20-2012, 04:53 AM   #5
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... that view about the President not being a citizen was a lot of hogwash. It's really embarrassing that some are still trying to make an issue of it with the elections coming up. It'd be good in a way if those people had their citizenship revoked. That'd be fitting and beneficial for the country.

ps As to Diana, I vouch for her being a good egg. Glad to see that things have been patched up. And even if she did mess up (I haven't read through the lengthy threads) that's not something horrible. All of us say foolish things at times or things that we don't explain enough to get others to see where we're coming from and whatnot. It's human nature.

And with Diana, she has the courage to post a lot of her views. So she is entitled to some slack.
A lot of us say things both here and in rl that it's most definitely human nature. To be nailed to the freakin' stake for it is insane! It's mostly why this world is where it is, sadly and why we're so damned quick w/ the judgmental trigger. Good thing more of us don't own guns, we'd just shoot each other in lieu of trying to work things out.

I have a tremendous amount of respect for Diana b/c she has the courage to step up and say what she's thinking. After that, it's like playing dodge ball w/ bullets flying-the venom is seriously incredible. Talk about bullying each other. Since when is it not acceptable to have an opinion w/o being attacked for it, or being snarked at it b/c it's different.

God forbid you like a different candidate.

I agree w/ Ken that if we don't explain things enough, and then come back and add to, uh-oh! Sometimes, threads move so quickly and so forth. It's tough to keep up...the mind goes faster than the fingers for some of us.

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I never thought you were a racist. I think nighttimer is quick to call people out on issues of racism, and I think he may do so sometimes without thinking. I'm not judging him - I'm sure he has his reasons.

But, I never once have thought you were a racist. A little nuts with your conspiracy theories? Yup. Sorry, but that doesn't mean I don't love you.

I would be sad to see you go. I would genuinely miss you, and I know I'm not the only one.
I would seriously miss you, Diane. I said as much in an rep, but wanted to say so, publicly.

Even though I haven't been around, I've been reading. Been busy w/ life and writing. Gotta get wip finished!

So, please don't leave
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Old 05-19-2012, 09:04 PM   #6
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Stay. I never thought you were a racist, and I don't think all criticism of Obama is racist. Just some of it.
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Old 05-19-2012, 09:07 PM   #7
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and I don't think all criticism of Obama is racist. Just some of it.
And marking the difference may be the key to navigating the discussion.
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Old 05-19-2012, 09:29 PM   #8
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Adding to the above.

There is certainly more than racism that is raising questions on this issue. I mean, if we can point out that Speaker Gingrich turned his campaign into a book marketing program, we can certainly question the motives behind the bio. And we can question why it wasn't addressed, up front, by the Obama campaign. The media savviness of the campaign was one of the key elements in its success. Missing this may have only been a stupid oversight. But it would seem to be a legitimate question.

Is the official in Arizona a racist, or just a radical Republican -- or trying to appease racists who funded his campaign? Racism is a part of it. Politics is a part of it. I'd suggest greed is, as well.

We can discuss it, surely. But only if we can think and communicate clearly about where those lines are.
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Old 05-19-2012, 09:30 PM   #9
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Great post, Diana. While I don't agree with everything you write, I firmly believe considering different perspectives are important for personal growth. See you 'round P&CE.
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Old 05-19-2012, 09:54 PM   #10
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Great post, Diana. While I don't agree with everything you write, I firmly believe considering different perspectives are important for personal growth. See you 'round P&CE.
Amen. If we start banning people for differences of opinion, there won't be anyone here to talk to before long.
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Old 05-19-2012, 09:57 PM   #11
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I have two things to say.

The first is I remain convinced Birtherism is rooted in racism. Nothing I read in the previous thread has shaken that conviction. If anything, I feel it has been validated.

Nor does it trouble me to call out those who traffic in racism, racists. Regardless of what missesdash thinks, I am not "heavy-handed" with the "R" word. It's not a word to be casually applied. But there are posts made by posters on Absolute Write that are homophobic, sexist, biased, demeaning, prejudiced and yes, racist.

When it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, I'm not going to call it a dog because someone doesn't like being identified as what they truly are. When writers decline to correctly identify what is obvious then they are dishonest to both the craft and themselves.

I was recently suspended for a week following a response to a poster who essentially said anyone serving in the military was a killer. I resented that remark, replied to it, and paid the price for violating the RYFW rule. I didn't like the mandatory vacation, but I did the crime and served the time. Others interceded on my behalf and I appreciate their advocacy.

I was glad to do for Diana what others had done for me and speak on the behalf of a member whose positive contributions outweigh the negative contributions. Whatever credibility I have as a participant on this board I will be pleased to utilize both for those I agree or disagree with.

I was surprised and disappointed that she would lend her intellect and credibility to a theory that is anti-intellectual and lacks credibility and I told her so, in private.

The private conversations between members should remain exactly that--private. My disagreement with her was never intended to be aired in a forum and I regret Miss Hignutt feels it necessary to disclose a private conversation in a public forum.

Now that she has I am compelled to respond publicly.

Miss Hignutt is a fully-grown adult and does not require my blessing to leave or stay. Whatever decision she makes she makes freely and of her own will.
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Old 05-19-2012, 11:19 PM   #12
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Quote:
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The first is I remain convinced Birtherism is rooted in racism. Nothing I read in the previous thread has shaken that conviction. If anything, I feel it has been validated.
Rooted, sure. That doesn't mean that anyone who buys into it is a racist. A lot of people just have a thing for ridiculous conspiracy theories.

Racism is the belief that one race is superior to another. Nothing Diana's ever said (that I've seen) indicates she holds such a belief. You use the term too easily.
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Old 05-19-2012, 11:44 PM   #13
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Rooted, sure. That doesn't mean that anyone who buys into it is a racist. A lot of people just have a thing for ridiculous conspiracy theories.

Racism is the belief that one race is superior to another. Nothing Diana's ever said (that I've seen) indicates she holds such a belief. You use the term too easily.
It would appear in your zeal to join the piling on you missed this:

Quote:
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MOD Note:

Folks, if you want to discuss the topic the member brought, that's cool.

We aren't going to be debating our individual members here. That rarely ends well. (emphasis added)
Thank you for the reminder, Mr. Royal, why the advisory caution was necessary.

No thanks that you chose to ignore it.
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Old 05-20-2012, 12:02 AM   #14
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He's not qualified for the position he holds.
People keep saying that nonsense. Let's see. He's a natural-born citizen, has attained the age of 35, has not already served two terms as President, and, wonder of wonders and most importantly, he got the most votes. What more do you need?
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Old 05-20-2012, 12:10 AM   #15
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People keep saying that crap. Let's see. He's a natural-born citizen, has attained the age of 35, has not already served two terms as President, and, wonder of wonders and most importantly, he got the most votes. What more do you need?
Meaning, he doesn't have the experience. I don't believe that being a community organizer and holding court in the senate for 2 years is enough for him to be prez.

I know he got the most votes

I'd like my future pres to bring a tad more experience to the job, is all. Perhaps, being Gov of a state prior to? I dunno, something to prepare him/her for the future task(s) at hand.

***Not talking about Birther stuff, at all. Believe Birther stuff to be total crap***
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Old 05-20-2012, 12:46 AM   #16
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I don't believe Diana to be racist, either.

However, by definition racism is not as simple as you've portrayed it. It's the hatred of another race to the point of wishing it to be extinct; IE: the Holocaust.

I disagree w/ you regarding Nightimer's usage.

The birthers were and are looking for any/all possible excuses to rid the country of Obama and won't quit until they find one. I call them, freely, racist.

Me, I don't like Obama one tiny bit b/c of many things, beginning w/, he's a putz and incompetent. There's more, but nothing on my list has anything to do w/ the color of his skin. He's not qualified for the position he holds. Sorry, folks, a community organizer doesn't cut it.

Moving right along, the issue of racism will come up very shortly regarding our next contenders for VP on the other side of the aisle-I speak of the Republicans, of course. And, they will be compared to Obama, and it shall be very interesting to see how it plays out.

Found a great article for all of you to read on Bobby Jindal, whom I absolutely adore, btw, and really want to see in the WH. But, guess what? Naw, I'm not gonna spoil it for ya

The article also mentions, Marco Rubio and speaks to the Constitution and what did the Founding Father's mean??? Sorts through all sorts of nifty stuff.



http://www.wnd.com/2011/05/297485/
The last two bolded words explain the previous ones quite well.
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Old 05-20-2012, 04:37 AM   #17
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The last two bolded words explain the previous ones quite well.
Great, you like Obama.

I don't.

I like Bobby Jindal.

You don't.

So what? What's your point?

I like Bobby Jindal's honesty, integrity and the fact that he had to go toe to toe w/ Obama before any federal help was finally brought in during the oil spill. Prior to that, LA was on their own while their precious shoreline was being destroyed and they were running out of resources. It was patently obvious that it was beyond LA's capabilities and BP wasn't telling the entire truth, etc. Remember that scene on the tarmac between Jindal & Obama Quite cool. Obama was ticked b/c Jindal was right and standing up for his state as any Gov should.

I like his spirit & guts. We desperately need someone like that w/ unemployment at a steady rate for the last 3 1/2 years and the housing market unimproved for the same.

You're right, RC, he held a state senate seat. I'm still unimpressed w/ his lack of skills. At the rate he's going, I'd love to see Bill Clinton back. Seriously.
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Old 05-19-2012, 09:40 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana Hignutt View Post
Sorry, folks, but I can't let accusations of racism go unanswered.

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/...d.php?t=245263

I've done a great deal more research since the dust up yesterday regarding Obama's literary agent's alleged screw up on his bio.

While I am convinced that Obama thought the being born in Kenya thing would make him seem cooler and more international--when he never dreamt of the presidency--and I believe he is at fault by virtue of this early mild deception for some small portion of birtherism.

That said, with more research under my belt, because I blew this business off the first time around, and I am famously distrustful of mainstream media, I am nonetheless convinced of his rightful occupation of his current office, ie. he's American and our President. And that there is a fair amount of birtherism being foisted by racism.

However, I repudiate that any criticism of Obama is racist. That is farcical hyperbole. I voted for the guy. And, I've said way worse things about Bush, btw.

Now, it is not widely know that it was Nighttimer who interceding with Mac and got me unbanned from P&CE, and he now regrets that (he told me). I will leave AW if that is his wish.

But, I will only go...if the world knows...I am not a racist and I don't appreciate being called one. There is the obvious fact that Obama has lied and claimed to have been born in Kenya for his own purposes, which eventually backfired when he became president. That seems almost certain to me. But, I don't think that makes me a birther. I agree yesterday, I got carried away, and did initially buy some birther junk. I got called out on it. I double checked and reexamined the evidence. Those of you who've know me here, should be aware that I do reconsider my position all the time, when presented evidence.

If you think that makes me racist, well you're gonna think what you're gonna think. I know better.
This is where people like you and I go our separate ways and apparently always will. (my bold)
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Old 05-19-2012, 09:45 PM   #19
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Well, yeah, I wouldn't say it was an "obvious fact that Obama...lied and claimed to have been born in Kenya," because the person who wrote that bio expressly said that it was her mistake and she hadn't spoken directly to Obama about it. She was writing up a quick bio for department use only, and it wasn't even supposed to be released to the public, so it wasn't really vetted or anything.

Seems like not a big deal, to me.

But I don't think that's at all indicative of the kind of person Diana is, so much as a different reading of the link.

Actually, this whole issue seems to be an example of things getting personal rather than focusing on actual issues.
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Old 05-19-2012, 09:53 PM   #20
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At what point is the author responsible for the "other parts" of the book? I'd have to think "bio" would fall within the boundaries of things the author would have to own.
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Old 05-19-2012, 10:08 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Williebee View Post
At what point is the author responsible for the "other parts" of the book? I'd have to think "bio" would fall within the boundaries of things the author would have to own.
The number of screw-ups published writers have to endure through no fault of their own is legendary. The major ones get noticed and sometimes addressed -- the last five pages of the book missing, or the carefully constructed first paragraph, or a completely different cover (which many writers have no input on in the first place) or a cover blurb for the wrong book -- or factual errors in a bio.

All these examples have happened to writers I know.
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Old 05-19-2012, 10:46 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Williebee View Post
At what point is the author responsible for the "other parts" of the book? I'd have to think "bio" would fall within the boundaries of things the author would have to own.
Except the "bio" in question was not part of the book. If you read the original article linked in the first post of the other thread, it was a promotional pamphlet put out by the agency, including several authors. Although not specifically stated, my interpretation was that it was intended for publishing houses to interest them in those particular authors represented by the agency.

But then, I never questioned that he was born in Hawaii.

MM
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Old 05-19-2012, 10:53 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryMumsy View Post
Except the "bio" in question was not part of the book. If you read the original article linked in the first post of the other thread, it was a promotional pamphlet put out by the agency, including several authors. Although not specifically stated, my interpretation was that it was intended for publishing houses to interest them in those particular authors represented by the agency.

But then, I never questioned that he was born in Hawaii.

MM
Thanks for this.

Is an author to be held accountable for the content of promotional materials? What about claims about them made in other company or individual's promotional materials?

And how does that change if the author runs for public office?
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Old 05-19-2012, 11:07 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryMumsy View Post
Except the "bio" in question was not part of the book. If you read the original article linked in the first post of the other thread, it was a promotional pamphlet put out by the agency, including several authors. Although not specifically stated, my interpretation was that it was intended for publishing houses to interest them in those particular authors represented by the agency.
The same basic bio was repeated on the agency's website until early 2007. When Obama declared for the Presidency. That was after the initial book morphed into Dreams From My Father:

Quote:
BARACK OBAMA is the junior Democratic senator from Illinois and was the dynamic keynote speaker at the 2004 Democratic National Convention. He was also the first African-American president of the Harvard Law Review. He was born in Kenya to an American anthropologist and a Kenyan finance minister and was raised in Indonesia, Hawaii, and Chicago. His first book, DREAMS FROM MY FATHER: A STORY OF RACE AND INHERITANCE, has been a long time New York Times bestseller.[my boldface]
Clearly, since it cites the 2004 Convention, it had been updated by someone.

From 1991 to 2007. That's over fifteen years with "Obama was born in Kenya" out there. And it was clearly changed--corrected--in April of 2007:
Quote:
BARACK OBAMA is the junior Democratic senator from Illinois and was the dynamic keynote speaker at the 2004 Democratic National Convention. He was also the first African-American president of the Harvard Law Review. He was born in Hawaii to an American anthropologist and a Kenyan finance minister and was raised in Indonesia, Hawaii, and Chicago. His first book, DREAMS FROM MY FATHER: A STORY OF RACE AND INHERITANCE, has been a long time New York Times bestseller. [mybodlface]
Quite clearly, imo, someone realized a non-native birthplace was no longer beneficial. Because the idea that this had escaped detection by anyone--even though it had clearly been looked at and updated mutiple times--is not believable in the least.

The simplest explanation for all of this is that the idea of Obama being born in Kenya was a marketing ploy that Obama tacitly approved or allowed, right up until it could potentially become a problem. Though one could just as easily make the argument--the one Breitbart is working on--that Obama has, himself, carefully managed who he is (meaning that in reality, he's largely an empty vessel), changing facts at different moments to suit his needs.

But either way, there's a great deal of dishonesty here, on the part of the President. And a great deal of ineptitude on the part of the media.

Because when the birther nonsense was in full gear, there was a source available who said Obama was born in Kenya: Obama himself, via this bio.


ETA: I said "clearly" an awful lot, didn't I? Clearly, I need a new word...
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Old 05-19-2012, 09:55 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana Hignutt View Post
Sorry, folks, but I can't let accusations of racism go unanswered.

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/...d.php?t=245263


While I am convinced that Obama thought the being born in Kenya thing would make him seem cooler and more international--when he never dreamt of the presidency--and I believe he is at fault by virtue of this early mild deception for some small portion of birtherism.
Can you give us clear documentation of your reasons for being convinced of the above, Diana?

I have read the previous thread and may have missed something, but the most convincing statement you've made seems to be this:

"According to the literary agency that handled Barack's publicity before he became famous, they "accidentally" listed his birthplace as Kenya -- from 1991 until 2007. Why wouldn't the President correct his agents -- unless there was nothing to correct? Why did they only change it 2 months before he made the announcement that he'd be running for President -- could it be because they realized the Constitutional issue inherent?"

Having worked in journalistic enterprises most of my life, I know how easily mistakes slip into print. I also know they are not all corrected, even by people concerned. Something erroneously was printed about me recently in my university's alumni magazine, and I didn't bother to correct it. I remember something from years ago where an article got my birthplace wrong--admittedly that was in an in-house publication--and I didn't bother to correct that, either. Maybe I'm woolly-minded and negligent. More likely, in the above cases, the mistakes didn't bother me a great deal, and I had other things on my mind.

I'm not saying your conclusions are wrong, because I don't know that they are. I'm saying that, to this point, your methods do not appear to meet the highest research standards.

I hope I am not offending you, but I felt it necessary to say this.

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