WARNING: fanfiction.net reportedly purging all "explicit" fics

[The Resurrectionist]

PSA for all the fic writers here:

Word is circulating on Tumblr that ff.net is purging all fics they deem to have "explicit" sexual content, as well as fic with song lyrics, chat-style transcripts, "inappropriate" summaries, or "too much" interaction.

Anyone who has fics that might qualify stored at ff.net and nowhere else should go save copies ASAP.

[shadowwalker]

It's always been their policy not to allow explicit stories. If reported, they're removed; I would assume they finally have time to do a more thorough housekeeping. Writers should have read the guidelines before posting.

Now if they'd only clean out those irritating author's notes posted as though they were chapters...

[The Resurrectionist]

Found further info:

The ff.net problem is being caused by a group called Critics United. They're apparently repeatedly reporting, not just fic with sexual content, but fic containing song lyrics, "chat-style" transcripts, and stories with "too much interaction" (w/e that means)...being VERY aggressive about reporting till ff.net gives in and removes the fic.

They've also been allegedly bullying ff.net members and posting lots of harassing reviews. No word on whether ff.net is actually doing anything about stopping this. From what I've heard, it sounds like ff.net is just caving to these people.

Original source post re: what's happening there:

http://wtffanfiction.tumblr.com/post...fanfiction-net

[shadowwalker]

Oh yes, I've heard about that group. Don't know if it's real or not, though I tend to believe it is. A lot of what's supposedly being reported is against the rules - and if they're leaving harrassing comments, etc, the authors can report that, too.

It's a free site, and only one of many, even if it is the biggest. Most fandoms have places to post stories as well, and bad reviews can be ignored and deleted. If FFNet gets too 'zealous' (or caves too much) they'll lose authors. I personally know half a dozen or more who've left over disputes, and mine was a very small fandom.

[veinglory]

It seem more logical for them to enforce their rules than not. Then adult stuff can more to sites that allow adult material.

[JSSchley]

Originally Posted by veinglory

It seem more logical for them to enforce their rules than not. Then adult stuff can more to sites that allow adult material.

I actually disagree. Fanfiction.net is supported by ad revenue, and crazy X-rated fics draw the biggest audiences and therefore the most impressions. (The fic which spawned Fifty Shades of Fanwank, anyone?)

It's not in their financial interest to remove X-rated fics, even at the pressure of what appears to be a group of teens with nothing better to do. The rule is only there, as far as I know, so that in case a source author *does* come down and say, "Hey, that stuff has to go," they can point to their TOS when they take it down and go, "You weren't supposed to post this. Buh-bye."

So I'm wondering what has actually sparked this crackdown.

[GlobalWolf]

Originally Posted by JSSchley

I actually disagree. Fanfiction.net is supported by ad revenue, and crazy X-rated fics draw the biggest audiences and therefore the most impressions.

Actually, too many "crazy X-rated fics" might get the site's advertisers to back out. That very nearly happened to the TV Tropes wiki a few years ago. They lost Google Adsense, and nothing that they could find would replace it. The admins managed to rescue the site with a purge, but it's better not to let yourself get in that situation to begin with.

That's probably why FanFiction.net doesn't allow material with explicit content. Not that I think it's any great loss to clear out material that appeals primarily to the prurient interest, though.

[JSSchley]

Originally Posted by GlobalWolf

Actually, too many "crazy X-rated fics" might get the site's advertisers to back out. That very nearly happened to the TV Tropes wiki a few years ago, and from just what I saw of the site, most of it was fairly tame. They lost Google Adsense, and nothing that they could find would replace it. The admins managed to rescue the site with a purge, but it's better not to let yourself get in that situation to begin with.

Which is actually my point. I was replying to the idea that it makes sense for them to undertake a purge because a few people pointed out some MA-rated stories. A purge is time intensive, and does cut audience by sending them to other sites. To undertake it because of a few hundred stories flagged by a small group doesn't make a lot of economic sense. It requires a large investment of the site owners' time and will ultimately cost them money, assuming all other things remain equal. It also gives undue power to a group of users, which is something a site owner generally does not want to do.

There are a lot of other reasons why the site needs to stay out of the explicit story business, like the one you mention. My comments are meant only by way of suggesting that perhaps the current purge is being driven by one of those.

[TheRajinski]

I'm just throwing this out there, but some of the stuff on ff.net is pretty darned twisted -- at least from what I've run into on there.

Don't particularly have a problem with it personally, but I always found it funny--especially because of the supposed rules forbidding mature content. I understand why it's not exactly kosher, considering all of the young folks who frequent the website.

They are going to need a massive task force in order to properly clean the place up. The problem is pervasive.

[Cyia]

It's nothing new; they've done it before, driving writers to use their own off-site blogs. As to the "why," look to 50 Shades of Grey and those reposting it (or MotU) in multiple fandoms as a form of "irony."

There's already an "adult" ffn in existence, so having the fics there isn't vital to the site's success.

[JSSchley]

I'm not saying it won't survive without them; it handily survived the great MA fic crackdown of...2001 was it? I think I was in college...

But just that it's a lot of effort on their part to do something that ultimately isn't in their best interest, and I would think to expend that effort, it'd be caused by something more than just some folks with nothing better to do than leave nasty notes. So I'd be more likely to believe a backlash spawning from something like 50 than this Critics United thing.

[veinglory]

I am not saying they *should* have the rule, I am saying it make more sense to ask them to change the rule than just not enforce it.

And as it happens their ad revenue is made from a userbase whose average age is around 18 and so includes a great many minors. That means erotica has to go or a lot of the users have to go.

Other fanfiction sites that allow hardcore erotica are, interestingly enough, less successful--so I am not sure FF is making the wrong call. I may not like it, but it is their site and it may be their best option.

They used to have erotica and they used to have age-filtering. So I suspect they had good reasons for going with the 16+ cap instead.

[heza]

So in the wake of this, I was reviewing FF.net's guidelines on acceptable content, and I realized that 2nd-person POV is not allowed. I would have thought, given that it's a commerically published POV (though limited), it would be allowable. Is there something that I'm missing? Is there a specific kind of story they're talking about? (It's lumped into the "interactive" fic group).

[fireluxlou]

Originally Posted by heza

So in the wake of this, I was reviewing FF.net's guidelines on acceptable content, and I realized that 2nd-person POV is not allowed. I would have thought, given that it's a commerically published POV (though limited), it would be allowable. Is there something that I'm missing? Is there a specific kind of story they're talking about? (It's lumped into the "interactive" fic group).

I don't understand why that would be a rule tbh. It seems stupid?

ETA: Maybe because it's trying to turn the story into one of those 'choose your ending' type things where it instructs the reader. like the old goosebumps books.

[fireluxlou]

I found this

Second-person is not banned on FFN. "Interactive stories" are banned (like choose-your-own-adventures and "Truth-or-Dare" fics). The guidelines merely note that many interactive stories are written in the second person. It doesn't mean to say that that point of view itself is banned.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...nfictionDotNet

Like script form stories are banned from FFN too.

[Silver-Midnight]

Eh. I'm not too bother by this. While there are some fan fictions on there that I do like and all, I truthfully don't really go on FanFiction.Net anymore. True, they might be one of the biggest, if not the biggest, archive for fan fiction. However, there are other places out there too. Some that even have a percentage higher quality fan fiction to be honest. Not trying to diss FanFiction.net either, because without them, I wouldn't have gotten my start in writing.

[Channy]

Originally Posted by The Resurrectionist

Found further info:

The ff.net problem is being caused by a group called Critics United. They're apparently repeatedly reporting, not just fic with sexual content, but fic containing song lyrics, "chat-style" transcripts, and stories with "too much interaction" (w/e that means)...being VERY aggressive about reporting till ff.net gives in and removes the fic.

They've also been allegedly bullying ff.net members and posting lots of harassing reviews. No word on whether ff.net is actually doing anything about stopping this. From what I've heard, it sounds like ff.net is just caving to these people.

Original source post re: what's happening there:

http://wtffanfiction.tumblr.com/post...fanfiction-net

Too much interaction means stuff like...

*Channy sits on the floor.*

*The Ressurectionist paces back and forth*

The very primitive way of writing/fanficing/RPing... WHY this is an issue, no idea.

I don't understand why sexually explicit content is against the rules when.. they have an M rating option! Get rid of it and make a point! Don't lure people in with the idea that they can do this and set them up for a bear trap.

I read the blog and wholeheartedly agree. It's bullying for the sake of bullying because one of the headleaders of the squad has rated M/sexually explicit content fics. How hypocritical is this?

Myself and a few others have gone to report it.

We must stand up for the little man. Reading the thread where they have their accomplishments listed of deleted fics is just appalling.

[benbradley]

I'm not into fanfic and there may be a lot I don't understand, but ...

Originally Posted by Channy

Too much interaction means stuff like...

*Channy sits on the floor.*

*The Ressurectionist paces back and forth*

The very primitive way of writing/fanficing/RPing... WHY this is an issue, no idea.

This and the "chat style" transcripts - what on Earth is so wrong with that kind of stuff that they ban it?

[fireluxlou]

Originally Posted by benbradley

I'm not into fanfic and there may be a lot I don't understand, but ...

This and the "chat style" transcripts - what on Earth is so wrong with that kind of stuff that they ban it?

Because when it wasn't banned people would just post their chat logs. Their reasoning was that people who go on fanfiction.net want to read prose and not someone's conversation in a messenger system and saying it was 'rpg' to avoid being taken down, so they just ban 'script-style' completely.

Like it'd go like this most of the time:

Me: hi how are you?
You: I'm fine thank you what you doing today?
etc

[Silver-Midnight]

Originally Posted by Channy

I don't understand why sexually explicit content is against the rules when.. they have an M rating option! Get rid of it and make a point! Don't lure people in with the idea that they can do this and set them up for a bear trap.

Even though that's the case, they don't want stuff that's too much out there. They probably want something that instead of setting it out "straight forward", it uses a lot of euphemisms or is very kind of, I guess, non-specific description or extremly light, if that makes sense. (For example, saying "him" or "her" instead of more specific words). That's just how I interpreted it though. I could be wrong.

[heza]

Oh, I also wanted to respond to this:

Originally Posted by Channy

I don't understand why sexually explicit content is against the rules when.. they have an M rating option! Get rid of it and make a point! Don't lure people in with the idea that they can do this and set them up for a bear trap.

From what I understand, their "M" rating doesn't excuse the same content that an "MA" rating would according to their guidelines. And it includes sexual as well as violent content. I'm not quite clear on the dividing line, though, and I think that's very open to subjective interpretation.

[BigWords]

FWIW, there are plenty of alternatives to fanfiction.net - there is a lot of material there which I disagree with - and the way in which some disputes are handled seems overly confrontational. Like I really need to go somewhere where I know there will be drama...

[shadowwalker]

Yeah, very few of the authors in my little fandom are exclusive to FFNet. Their stuff is on at least two sites, if not more.

[heza]

Where are these other "better" fanfiction archive sites? I know of this one but would like to broaden my horizons. What I like about FF.net is that it's a one-stop shop for just about any fandom, and I don't have to seek out fandom-specific archives.

So here are the types of stories that aren't allowed on FF.net. I don't know how to link to it because I can only view it while logged into my user account. Does that make it impermissible to quote here?

1. Non-stories: lists, bloopers, polls, previews, challenges, author notes, and etc.
2. One or two liners.
3. MST: comments inserted in between the flow of a copied story.
4. Stories with non-historical and non-fictional characters: actors, musicians, and etc.
5. Any form of interactive entry: choose your adventure, second person/you based, Q&As, and etc.
6. Chat/script format and keyboard dialogue based entries.

So it considers "chatfic" to be different from "interactive" fic. I can understand the chatfic (what it is and why it's banned). I get why the format has potential to be abused and lead to posting of non-stories, which is what the site is intended for. I'm not sure I've figured out interactive fic.

It would seem like Choose Your Own Adventure fics would be legitimate fics... just with links to different subsequent chapters to choose from at the end of each chapter. To me, that's also a legitimate format for fiction. Can someone weigh in as to why it might not be? Likewise, when I see "Truth or Dare" fic what I envision is someone writing vingettes based on prompts (or "dares") people either suggest in reviews or send them via PM. As long as the responses are actual narrative, then I don't see what the issue is. That doesn't seem different than responses to Challenges or LJ prompts.

I've never actually seen either style of fic, though, so I'm not sure what they mean. Are people doing something here that is completely different from what I'm thinking of?

[veinglory]

M stories may not have explicit sex. It is R16 approximately. You may mention sex is occurring, you may not describe it.

This is explained near the top of their main index page where rating options are list and there are links to defintions.