**ATTN Established Writers** Send a note to Craigslist!

[SouthernFriedJulie]

http://www.writersrow.com/deborahng/...ugust-24-2007/

That's the discussion on Deb's board concerning the job and...

http://www.online-writing-jobs.com/jobbank/job10504.htm
that's for Online Writing Jobs.

There are so many lies stories that have been told to different writers that it has to be a scam. I posted my reply to the virtual assistant and hers to my allegations. She even forgot that supposedly my articles didn't fit their magazine. Suddenly she wanted them all. Blah.

Thinking of making a blog for such scams. 'How NOT To Make A Living As A Freelance Writer' but then Jenna would come get me.

[sugarlit]

Originally Posted by SouthernFriedJulie

This explanation I agree with, a seperate section. Though I don't like the way you ended it. 'which is why you should,too.' It's probably just me, but it seems like you're telling us what to do. Not trying to be a *b* about it, though, just stating how it reads to me.

Sorry, I don't mean to sound pushy. I'm an Aries - we can be very demanding and bossy sometimes.

[SouthernFriedJulie]

Originally Posted by sugarlit

Sorry, I don't mean to sound pushy. I'm an Aries - we can be very demanding and bossy sometimes.

No problem, one of my kids is an Aries!

[Tifferbugz]

Originally Posted by SouthernFriedJulie

http://www.writersrow.com/deborahng/...ugust-24-2007/

That's the discussion on Deb's board concerning the job and...

http://www.online-writing-jobs.com/jobbank/job10504.htm
that's for Online Writing Jobs.

There are so many lies stories that have been told to different writers that it has to be a scam. I posted my reply to the virtual assistant and hers to my allegations. She even forgot that supposedly my articles didn't fit their magazine. Suddenly she wanted them all. Blah.

Thinking of making a blog for such scams. 'How NOT To Make A Living As A Freelance Writer' but then Jenna would come get me.

Wow I have two articles due for them on Monday...

They seemed to have changed some things. The contract now lists an address and a phone number for Laray Carr.

Ugh, not sure if I'm willing to take the risk of writing these articles.

Thanks so much for letting me know. I'm on vacation so I'm not checking all the boards as often.

Edit: I called the number listed on the contract. It goes to a voicemail system for "LCP Media" and asks you to leave your name and number and the name of the person you are trying to contact.

Ugh...I'm not sure if I want to write the articles and see what happens or just avoid it altogether.

[SouthernFriedJulie]

Originally Posted by Tifferbugz

Wow I have two articles due for them on Monday...

They seemed to have changed some things. The contract now lists an address and a phone number for Laray Carr.

Ugh, not sure if I'm willing to take the risk of writing these articles.

Thanks so much for letting me know. I'm on vacation so I'm not checking all the boards as often.

Edit: I called the number listed on the contract. It goes to a voicemail system for "LCP Media" and asks you to leave your name and number and the name of the person you are trying to contact.

Ugh...I'm not sure if I want to write the articles and see what happens or just avoid it altogether.

They had to have just changed it. The number was leading to the Steam Cleaning company in VA. I'd be very wary if I were you.

[Tifferbugz]

Originally Posted by SouthernFriedJulie

They had to have just changed it. The number was leading to the Steam Cleaning company in VA. I'd be very wary if I were you.

Yeah I have yet to be burned in this job (lolnewbie) and I'd like to avoid it for as long as possible. Thank you so much for mentioning the trouble you were having with them in your post. Otherwise I may never have checked Deb's blog today.

[kewrite]

Originally Posted by sugarlit

Kori,

My idea was to have Craigslist create a separate section for free/cheap/low-paying work for writers who don't mind working for pennies, and for employers who are specifically looking for cheap work. This could include unpaid work with the so-called compensation of "exposure" or "experience"...or ridiculously low-paying work like "revising fifty 500-word articles for $1 each." Somebody without writing experience or clips might want to work cheaply or for free because they know that's one way to add clips to their portfolio. Many of these people are desperate for experience and are not yet at the point where they expect good monetary compensation for their writing and their time.

My $15/hour cut-off is, indeed, arbitrary. Everybody has their own definition of what constitutes a "low-paying" wage. My point was that there should be a section specifically tailored to that sort of low-paying work. $20/hour can be a perfectly good rate for special projects of interest, like mentoring beginning writers...or helping non-profit organizations. However, few professional writers will work jobs bordering on minimum wage, unless they have high interest in the work for personal or professional reasons.

By the way, when posting writing jobs, employers are supposed to adhere to Craigslist guidelines, one of which states, "All job ads must offer monetary compensation -- no unpaid internships, barters, deferred pay, etc." I always flag unpaying jobs that appear in the Writing section. Those jobs do not belong there. They DO belong in a section for unpaid/portfolio work. Unfortunately, such a section does not exist yet...which is why I sent a note to Craigslist...and which is why you should, too.

I get all that (though I don't like your last line either). My point was really that it would be incredibly hard to draw a line between low paying and high paying jobs.

For example, if I see a job related to sports for example, I could write a 500 word, accurate, well-documented article in about 20 minutes.

So even if the company was paying $20 for that article (which some might consider low pay). It wouldn't be low pay to me .. because I could do it in no time.

Basically, I'm saying that "low pay" is relative. I agree that CL should eliminate the jobs that are non-paying or paying only ad revenue share. Or maybe they should split blogging jobs out from other jobs, etc. But to me, the low pay vs high pay thing wouldn't work.

It doesn't bother me to scroll through the jobs that are too low paying for me to consider ... I don't dwell on it, I just click to the next one or refer someone else I know to the job that might be interested.

Good luck.

[BlueBadger]

Er, I've gotten a couple of high-paying / regular jobs from Craigslist. But it IS tricky. Still, it's a good standby while I'm trying to establish more contacts. If anyone has some magic answer here, by all means let me know.

I saw that Online Writing Jobs magazine post and asked for the writer's guidelines out of curiosity. Fifty bucks for a two thousand word article? Ha ha, no.

[Tish Davidson]

ack! Here is an example of why I almost never apply to Craigslist jobs any more. Recently I responded to an ad in my area of expertise that advertised a per hour rate that was at the low end of my scale, but still pretty decent. We corresponded about the project, and then they sent me a contract. The rate in the contract was a piece rate and there was absolutely no way I or anyone else who was going to do a reasonably competent job, could make the hourly rate they advertised based on the piece rate they offered. So I declined the job. But that kind of misleading low balling of jobs is one reason why I don't usually waste my time responding to Craigslist any more.

I don't think this was strictly a scam. The company checks out and the contract looked standard. My objection is the bait-and-switch hourly rate that turned into an unrealistic piece work rate.

[BlueBadger]

To be fair, isn't it just as possible to be taken it by a screwjob outside of Craigslist? I'm pretty sure all the scam artists in the world aren't putting their eggs in one basket.

[moonslice]

I've pretty much decided to never apply for a job unless I can find a professional-looking website for that company. No blind ads.

[Tish Davidson]

Originally Posted by BlueBadger

To be fair, isn't it just as possible to be taken it by a screwjob outside of Craigslist? I'm pretty sure all the scam artists in the world aren't putting their eggs in one basket.

Sure, its always possible to be taken, but Craigslist makes it so cheap and easy to bottom fish and see if they can get someone for the lowest possible pay. I've found that jobs posted on the SF Bay Area site of Craigslist that actually charges tend to be much better than the average free Craigslist posting. I'd like to see all Craigslist charge for all job postings. I think it would drive out some of the just fishing to see how low we can go folks.

[jenfreedom]

Originally Posted by Tish Davidson

Sure, its always possible to be taken, but Craigslist makes it so cheap and easy to bottom fish and see if they can get someone for the lowest possible pay. I've found that jobs posted on the SF Bay Area site of Craigslist that actually charges tend to be much better than the average free Craigslist posting. I'd like to see all Craigslist charge for all job postings. I think it would drive out some of the just fishing to see how low we can go folks.

I agree with this. There's a whole deal in Oregon or Washington (maybe both) right now to get paid ads only on Craigslist which a lot of people are against but I'm all for. If people have to pay for ad space it will cut down on the crap. The Bay Area list does offer higher quality jobs usually.

~ Jennifer

[BlueBadger]

Any good advice for Craigslist alternatives, then? I've been establishing contacts but it's still slow work, and I'd like to find the high paying jobs as much as anyone.

[Tish Davidson]

I belong to American Medical Writers Association which has a job board that has well-paying medical writing jobs, both freelance and full time corporate. There is also the Council of Science Editors. Does anyone know of other organizations that exist for specific types of writing?

[BlueBadger]

That's a good question. I also think a great deal depends on what kind of writing you do; I imagine your specialty (medical writing) pays more substantially than mine (video games, Japanese anime/manga, pop culture), where ten cents a word is pretty standard.

I generally go by how MUCH work I have to do. For example, I write daily for a video site and I'm paid ten dollars for every 70-word entry I make. All together, I write about thirty dollars worth of input every day and it takes me less than an hour. I don't think that's unreasonable; it really adds up and I'm not going out of my way.

However, when research, etc is involved (I can tell you first hand it's a major pain to communicate with anyone in the game industry because of cast-iron NDAs) I expect to get paid for my trouble. Still, it's hard to find people willing to compensate me for my work.

I'm writing more about pet ownership these days, which pays substantially more, but again it's slow-going getting contacts and all that. I know I'm a good writer; people seek me out, give me bonuses whenever possible, etc. But when people accuse me of working for "slave wages" and cheapening the freelance profession, I get defensive. I'm really not sure of what else I can do. No matter the case, I'll take it over retail any day.

[Tish Davidson]

BlueBadeger I don't know any way to get regular, established clients except through slogging along and making contacts and following up on past clients for additional work. I was fortunate that I started writing when I was at home with small children and didn't have to make a lot of money right away because we could live on my husband's salary. I think the first year I made $1,800 and the second about $3,000. If you stick with it, you will find that editors move and will often contract work from you at their new site, while the new editor will often continue to work with you at the old publication. And then there is the constant work of seeking appropriate publications and querying. It's a little like tending a slow growing plant. Nothing happens fast, but with diligence eventually your career will flower.

[Deirdre]

Since Laray Carr was mentioned in this thread, here's a link to the unfolding issues with them.

[Rowdymama]

Well, I consider myself a competent writer although perhaps not "established" - don't know what is meant by that. I've worked for as little as $5 an article and as much as $75 for a simple two-page rewrite job for the Russian market. I'm published (17 times) in an anthology. The reason I write these days for fairly low-end pay is I'm too busy with mentoring to take on long articles, and I enjoy it a lot more.

I checked out Online Writing Jobs, and found that a lot of jobs there require a large number of articles written in 2-3 days, and one that wanted 500 words for $2. I don't even call that a "job." Craigslist is fine for those who have time to wade through it, but I don't have the time. Just my opinion.

[Ginny1]

Yes, there is a lot of garbage on Craigslist. I can't dispute that. However, I hooked up with three of my four largest clients on Craigslist. Each of them is worth between $10,000 and $15,000 per year for me. Each is a large company, two are multi-national. Frankly, Craigslist has been far better to me than any other job search websites out there.

That being said, you have to be able to read between the lines and know what will be worth replying to. I only reply to something if I get a good feeling about it, and that only happens once every six months if I'm lucky. It has worked for me, and I check it daily waiting for my next gold mine to show up.

[jenngreenleaf]

I'm having a *horrible* experience with a craigslist "job" right now. This guy posed as an acedemic publisher, then it turned out to be a term paper mill. I took the job because I've ghostwritten course modules in the past and thought it was the same situation. After talking to several people about what this guy was having me do, they pointed out the fact that I was being scammed into writing term papers. I called him on, he opened a dispute with paypal against me and now I have to refund him all the money he's paid me. That's what I woke up to this morning. I'm so frustrated. I felt like I was kicked in the gut when I found out what this job was really about . . . and now I feel kicked in the gut once again . . . . Lesson learned.

[limitedtimeauthor]

Ack - why would YOU have to refund money to him?

Is it because you wrote the pieces, but won't let him use them?

If he's selling term papers, good for you. Sorry about the lost time and effort though.

[jenngreenleaf]

Originally Posted by limitedtimeauthor

Ack - why would YOU have to refund money to him?

Is it because you wrote the pieces, but won't let him use them?

If he's selling term papers, good for you. Sorry about the lost time and effort though.

So frustrated! He gave me what's called "Token" payments for partials - then, when I found out what he was up to, I wouldn't complete the assignments. So, he has pieces of work that aren't completed. I'd rather wash my hands of the whole deal. I still can't believe he opened a dispute against me all while accusing me of wasting his time and causing a back-log of work. Um, hello? I do believe he was the one being deceptive here. Grr.

[Rowdymama]

Doesn't paypal have a dispute resolution thing? Did you go through that?

And what right do they have to demand that you pay him anything? Don't pay them a cent! Make them take you to court, where you'll have a chance to explain how deceptive he was. You don't have to put up with this garbage. I don't know what the amount is, but unless it's in the thousands, chances are they won't bother - lawyers are expensive.

Unless you signed a contract...