If you REALLY want to work in comics--

Axler · Oct 23, 2007

--Here is a brief primer that covers an awful of the current realities in the so-called industry.

http://firefox.org/news/articles/72...hole-bunch-of-cons-and-one-big-pro/Page1.html

OverTheHills&FarAway · Oct 23, 2007

Sucks I was born an Idealist and not a realist because it's things like writing comics--writing in general, storytelling basically--that make me happy to be alive. Sucks that to live in this society you basically gotta have money.

Doesn't look like I'm going to have any money for a long, long time....good thing writing is the only thing I'd ever want to do, or else I'd be AWFULLY dissatisfied with life.....

PeeDee · Oct 23, 2007

So many of those cons, and that pro, apply to short story writing, novel writing, etc. You're not going to be the next Stephen King first off. You're not going to get rich. You're going to be frustrated and it's going to be hard to hook up with a publisher.

Those are definitely realities, but not a deterrent. Just things to know before you square your shoulders and have a go at the comics medium, the novel medium, et cetera.

InfinityGoddess · Oct 23, 2007

PeeDee said:
Those are definitely realities, but not a deterrent. Just things to know before you square your shoulders and have a go at the comics medium, the novel medium, et cetera.

Agreed. I'm not getting into comics because I want to be rich. I'm getting into them because I want to have fun doing what I love.

wordmonkey · Oct 23, 2007

Facts of the link stand. Totally agree.

I just wonder why we need the downer stuff and then, "PS. It's fun."

Like PeeDee says, same applies for breaking in to any kinda writing. And those who make it, make it IN SPITE of those conditions.

I have heard Paul Jenkins (Golden Boy at Marvel) say that breaking into comics is hard, because however anyone breaks in, the business closes that way in straight after.

Yeah, it's hard. Nigh impossible.

But that's the challenge, right? That's part of the fun. And yeah, I got a crazy look in my eye, right about now.

InfinityGoddess · Oct 23, 2007

wordmonkey said:
And yeah, I got a crazy look in my eye, right about now.

Should I be scared?

JoNightshade · Oct 23, 2007

I know breaking into comics is super hard.

That's why I've decided to become a famous novelist.

Then they'll let me write Batman.

PeeDee · Oct 23, 2007

I see articles like that all the time on novels and especially short stories, these days. Granted, they're always accurate, but I pay them no mind. They do me no favors, they tell me no lies.

They are, however, good articles for beginners and I encourage them. It's not all tea and cupcakes. You're not going to get published quick and make big ca$h or some dumb shit. It's hard work for no money and zero recognition and nothing except that tight little shiver you get when your work is published. And that refers to novels, comics, or short stories, or what-have-you.

I always say, write like a man playing blues on a street corner. Maybe that's just a southern reference, but I think it holds: Write like you're boogie chillin', not like you want to be a superstar.

PeeDee · Oct 23, 2007

It works. Hell. You can't do worse than Richard Donnor on Superman, or Brad Meltzer on Justice League...

JoNightshade said:
I know breaking into comics is super hard.

That's why I've decided to become a famous novelist.

Then they'll let me write Batman.

JoNightshade · Oct 23, 2007

I could do much better, in fact.

Although I am not sure how people will feel about me cutting out all the action scenes and making it into a family drama. Hmm.

PeeDee · Oct 23, 2007

JoNightshade said:
I could do much better, in fact.

Although I am not sure how people will feel about me cutting out all the action scenes and making it into a family drama. Hmm.

As long as you do more than one issue a year, you've already beat friggin' Donnor.

You can't fault Geoff Johns, though. Not with the work he's doing on Green Lantern. Best comic since Death of Superman and Knightfall.

PeeDee · Oct 23, 2007

How can I mention Knightfall and then not reveal this nifty thing I found?

Drool, thee mortals.

Or buy me one. Your choice.

JoNightshade · Oct 23, 2007

Er, wow. That's pretty graphic.

Azraelsbane · Oct 23, 2007

I figured it was mandatory I post in this thread, seeing as you're talking about Knightfall. I mean Azrael & Bane; I'm destined for all threads mentioning the series. Strangely enough, my forum name doesn't originate from that... Go figure.

wordmonkey · Oct 24, 2007

InfinityGoddess said:
Should I be scared?

Only if you're standing in the way.

PeeDee said:
I see articles like that all the time on novels and especially short stories, these days. Granted, they're always accurate, but I pay them no mind. They do me no favors, they tell me no lies.

Actually I do see some value in these articles. While I personally disagree with the tone, the content is bang on the money. And if you're dead set on doing this silliness, it won't stop you. If it does stop you, then you were never serious to start with. And, while I admit this is completely self-serving, any wannabes cut from the field only helps me, 'cos editors (and I mean this not specific to comics, but it does apply) are not distracted by one more piece of "play" that someone subbed.

PeeDee said:
They are, however, good articles for beginners and I encourage them. It's not all tea and cupcakes. You're not going to get published quick and make big ca$h or some dumb shit. It's hard work for no money and zero recognition and nothing except that tight little shiver you get when your work is published. And that refers to novels, comics, or short stories, or what-have-you.

It's not the first time it's been mentioned, nor will it be the last, but King's "On Writing" shows that he went through the same slush-piles and rejection fests. It wasn't like the guy was born with a silver pen in his mouth. I'm not a fan of King. Can take him or leave him (and he still owes me money and time back for INSOMNIA), but you cannot argue that he tooks his knocks, faced the same roadblocks we all face and are highlighted in that article, and carried on regardless.

PeeDee said:
I always say, write like a man playing blues on a street corner. Maybe that's just a southern reference, but I think it holds: Write like you're boogie chillin', not like you want to be a superstar.

Blues is always good. Especially as a soundtrack to the rejections, lack of respect, lack of money, lack of everything. But that's what the blues is all about. Though I think in the above example, I'd go with La Grange.

A-HOW-HOW-HOW!

PeeDee · Oct 24, 2007

The funny thing is, then you say "ah-howhowhow," which is a quote from "Boom Boom" by John Lee Hooker, who also did "Boogie Chillin'," so I win after all.

wordmonkey · Oct 24, 2007

PeeDee said:
The funny thing is, then you say "ah-howhowhow," which is a quote from "Boom Boom" by John Lee Hooker, who also did "Boogie Chillin'," so I win after all.

Nah. In the ZZ Top version, it's way more lusty and gutteral. Hooker's boogie-chillin', Tops are doing the nasty. Doin' it well. And you know she's likin' it.

Actually, in a strange, cyclical, coincidental way, this slight derail does link to a thread at the round table, there was a lawsuit launched against ZZ Top, by the copyright-owner of Boogie Chillin' (not Hooker, curiously) who claimed that ZZ Top ripped off Boogie Chillin' with La Grange.

ZZ Top won.

And since they won, so did I.

Ah-HOW-HOW-HOW!

PeeDee · Oct 24, 2007

All right, but you put Johnny Hooker and Billy Gibbs down with guitars on a street corner and have them go at it, you see who wins!

Axler · Oct 24, 2007

The sad irony of it all is that for about a ten year period, from 1983-4 through 1992-3, it was possible to work full-time in comics as a writer without feeling it was necessary to break into Marvel or DC.

PeeDee · Oct 24, 2007

I would still rather work at Dark Horse, or Vertigo/Image (I know, I know, DC, but never mind)

wordmonkey · Oct 24, 2007

PeeDee said:
All right, but you put Johnny Hooker and Billy Gibbs down with guitars on a street corner and have them go at it, you see who wins!

I'll take that bet.

One starts chugging the guitar riffs. The other is propped on a packing crate, smelling and attracting flies. Those bottle caps on his shoe-leather aren't gonna help in this situation.

I win again, sir!

Axler said:
The sad irony of it all is that for about a ten year period, from 1983-4 through 1992-3, it was possible to work full-time in comics as a writer without feeling it was necessary to break into Marvel or DC.

I'd be quite happy with a title at each/either and still do my own other stuff. In fact, Jeph Loeb has my career goal all worked out. Cherry-pick the comics, a little LOST work, a little HEROES work, odd movie script. I'd be happy to diversify.

And granted, it's the BIG names, but the exclusive contracts are still out there.

There are also a few writers who write more than one book a month. If I had to do a couple (OK, I am currently working on about six comic books with various artists and publishers), that wouldn't be some great hardship, if it meant covering the bills. It ain't like I'd be digging twice the ditches.

PeeDee · Oct 24, 2007

Given Jeph Loeb's work on Superman/Batman, I'm not sure I'd want to be him exactly. Blech. Heroes makes me happy beyond belief, though.

wordmonkey · Oct 24, 2007

PeeDee said:
I would still rather work at Dark Horse, or Vertigo/Image (I know, I know, DC, but never mind)

Yeah, the do some interesting books. But at the end of the day, I can cash a check from Marvel or DC, just as easily as I can an indie publisher.

I think it's important to remember that for as creative as WE ALL ARE in this, it is a business, with all the junk that comes with that. Profits and losses and all that nasty commercial crap that just gets in the way of our art.

There are always trade-offs to be made when you mix business and art of any kind.

InfinityGoddess · Oct 24, 2007

wordmonkey said:
There are always trade-offs to be made when you mix business and art of any kind.

Agreed.

AceTachyon · Oct 24, 2007

wordmonkey said:
In fact, Jeph Loeb has my career goal all worked out.

Personally, I was eyeballing Greg Rucka's path.

If you REALLY want to work in comics--

McNifico

Where's my tea, please...?

Goddess of Infinity

ook

Goddess of Infinity

has finally arrived

Where's my tea, please...?

Where's my tea, please...?

has finally arrived

Where's my tea, please...?

Where's my tea, please...?

has finally arrived

Agony is defeat

ook

Where's my tea, please...?

ook

Where's my tea, please...?

Where's my tea, please...?

ook

Where's my tea, please...?

ook

Goddess of Infinity

Odd person