Ho-ho-holy crap! Look at gas prices now!

[Sheryl Nantus]

Originally Posted by johnnysannie

Or how about Bush refusing to do anything about the record profits or to tax high profits on oil companies.

to be fair, I put the question to you - what about free enterprise?

we may be upset about the profits that these companies are pulling in (and yes, they are obscene!) but the American Way of Life is all about making as much money as you can legally - if they're putting out a product and making a profit, who are "you" (anyone, including the government) to say that it's "too" much profit? Is it 10 million? 20? Should they be forced to put their gas prices down to the point of making no money? Isn't that interfering with the freedom to run your own company?

isn't that... socialism? Or some other "ism" where the government gets involved in telling the business owner what he/she can charge for goods?

if it were the local supermarket telling you that they had to charge $5.00 for milk because the government said that they had to - would that be acceptable?

[Patrick L]

Originally Posted by Sheryl Nantus

to be fair, I put the question to you - what about free enterprise?

we may be upset about the profits that these companies are pulling in (and yes, they are obscene!) but the American Way of Life is all about making as much money as you can legally - if they're putting out a product and making a profit, who are "you" (anyone, including the government) to say that it's "too" much profit? Is it 10 million? 20? Should they be forced to put their gas prices down to the point of making no money? Isn't that interfering with the freedom to run your own company?

isn't that... socialism? Or some other "ism" where the government gets involved in telling the business owner what he/she can charge for goods?

if it were the local supermarket telling you that they had to charge $5.00 for milk because the government said that they had to - would that be acceptable?

I don't argue with you on this point, but we elect our government, and should demand that they put incentive into finding a universal alternative--and not because of profits--because of a collapse/war that looms in the distance.

We're hooked on a crack pipe known as oil, and the withdrawl symptoms are scary to consider.

[Robert Toy]

[quote=johnnysannie;2146706]

He benefits in several ways. Stocks are just one (he and Cheney both have a lot of oil stock and make profits when prices soar). Few average everyday Americans own that much oil stock.

One, if they own oil stocks it is in a blind trust. Two, what they do hold is so minuscule as compared to what the average Americans' own so that's a moot point.

Senator Rockerfeller is an exception; he is richer than the Bush family but he is also not President.

So, it's only the president and vice-president that this applies to?

Check out the list of major contributors to Bush's presidential campaigns (matter of public record) and you will find very large amounts from major oil companies.

Nah, let's look at today:
Contributions from Oil & Gas:
John McCain (R) - $283,285
Hillary Clinton (D) - $276,150
Barack Obama (D) - $157,390

Or how about Bush refusing to do anything about the record profits or to tax high profits on oil companies?

Wrong Branch - Congress makes laws.

Then there is the basic silence from The White House on any real solutions to the now record and ever rising oil prices.

Supply and Demand, OPEC, and not that it will do any good but I recently read somewhere Bush is sending Cheney to the M.E. to try and get oil prices reduced (increase production..???).

Other than the government nationalizing the oil companies, what do you suggest the government does? Increasing windfall taxes sure as hell won't reduce the price of oil.

But I'm certain that Bush and Cheney are solely responsible for Global Warming.

[DonnaDuck]

Honestly, I'm not that bothered by rising oil prices. While I don't own a hybrid, and while I do own an 11 year old Honda Civic, that baby gets 39 miles to the gallon city with a roughly 11 gallon tank. I'm not stressed. It's the American way of life, I know, but people who drive around in gas-guzzling Hummers and Yukons don't have a right to complain about gas when their vehicle gets 10 miles to the gallon. Stop driving oil-sucking vehicles and watch your gas budget go down.

I don't like the idea of using corn and other grains like that as fuel either. That's a lose-lose situation. The command will eventually be so high for that product that we'll tax the land into sterility. We won't even be able to farm to feed ourselves let alone fuel our cars. Brazil has it right with their flex fuel. They use the waste product of sugar cane and convert that into fuel for their cars. No overtaxing the land. They go about business as usual and make use of every aspect of the plant they've been making money on for years. Now, instead of throwing away the waste, the drive on it. Corn isn't the way to go either. Granted neither is hydrogen or a nuclear cell. Get into a fender bender and take out 12 city blocks. With the amount of waste this country produced, you'd think someone would have thought of some way to convert that into viable energy already.

And what they pay for gas in England/Britain isn't market price. Not all of it. The Queen taxes the hell out of it in order to discourage driving and encourage people to utilize their public transportation systems.

[Robert Toy]

Originally Posted by Patrick L

I used to live there, and yes, you pay through the nose. And while your geography favors it, look at how much more advanced and complete your public transit system is. Because of the size of the U.S. and our appetite for growth and expanse, we're in a real situation in many cities.

You can look at my preferred genre and see why I would say something like this. If major changes aren't made, can you imagine what will happen in ten, twenty, fifty years when oil gets so expensive that economies begin to collapse? There is a great deal in Canada, I believe in oil sands, but from what I understand, and I could be way off base, it's terribly expensive to extract and refine.

And why are we developing permanent bases in the Middle East? Hmmm.

(my bold)
Years ago I remember a figure being quoted at $100 a barrel (for oil), in order to make the extraction from the sands viable. I have no idea what the cost would be today.

[Unique]

Honestly, I'm not that bothered by rising oil prices. While I don't own a hybrid, and while I do own an 11 year old Honda Civic, that baby gets 39 miles to the gallon city with a roughly 11 gallon tank. I'm not stressed. It's the American way of life, I know, but people who drive around in gas-guzzling Hummers and Yukons don't have a right to complain about gas when their vehicle gets 10 miles to the gallon. Stop driving oil-sucking vehicles and watch your gas budget go down.

I'm glad you're not bothered.

I own a 14 year old Toyota that gets good mileage but I'm also on a fixed income and I am MAXXED out. Everytime gas goes up food comes out of my mouth.

Soon, I won't be able to afford to drive to work.
Then I'll really be in the shit house.

So I am so happy for you, that the prices aren't bothering you. It's so nice to know there are people out there that aren't being affected!

[Robert Toy]

Americans have three choices, consume less oil/gas; get off your butts and walk/ride a bicycle/use public transport (where available) or nationalize the oil companies. It works in Venezuela; gas is only fourteen (14) cents a gallon!

Viva chavez!!

[Sheryl Nantus]

Originally Posted by DonnaDuck

The Queen taxes the hell out of it in order to discourage driving and encourage people to utilize their public transportation systems.

that is one thing I don't understand - the US has a lousy public transportation system for the most part which encourages people to drive and to drive a LOT.

I live just south of Pittsburgh and have really no way to get into the city itself without at least two hours of transit and an hour's drive to get TO the transit. There's just no infrastructure there to encourage you to take the bus or to transport people efficiently and effectively. Meanwhile, in Ontario, Canada I can easily get from Mississauga across Toronto and out to Whitby in a few hours by the mass-transit train system and up to the northern boonies by bus. Not having a car there is inconvenient, but it's not the paralysing effect that it is here.

as for the "it's all Bush's fault!" I see that my home country has prices of over $4.00 a gallon. Riddle me that one out.

[reigningcatsndogs]

Some snips, according to Alberta Energy, "Second only to the Saudi Arabia reserves, Alberta's oil sands deposits were described by Time Magazine as "Canada's greatest buried energy treasure," and "could satisfy the world's demand for petroleum for the next century".

"Annual oil sands production is growing steadily as the industry matures. Output of marketable oil sands production increased to 1.126 million barrels per day (bbl/d) in 2006. With anticipated growth, this level of production could reach 3 million barrels per day by 2020 and possibly even 5 million barrels per day by 2030."

" Development of Alberta's oil sands resources represents a triumph of technological innovation. Over the years, government and industry have worked together to find innovative and economic ways to extract and process the oil sands and energy research is more important today than ever before."

http://www.energy.gov.ab.ca/OurBusiness/oilsands.asp

Fort McMurray is booming. Last week they were anticipating the need for between 5,000 and 8,000 more employees to work in the oil camps there. Because the wages are so obscenely high in the camps, the local McDonalds pays over $20/hr to keep employees -- even at that wage they are always looking for help.

[Unique]

Originally Posted by Robert Toy

Americans have three choices, consume less oil/gas; get off your butts and walk/ride a bicycle/use public transport (where available) or nationalize the oil companies. It works in Venezuela; gas is only fourteen (14) cents a gallon!

Viva chavez!!

Viva chavez!! then. It's 14 miles to work and I don't want to know how long that would take to walk.

In July.

When it's 101. with a relative humidity of 90%.

I see more people riding mopeds; I can't decide if they're brave, foolish, or both. People drive like shiite, yammering on their cell phones, driving too fast, and those dump trucks, log trucks, et. al. are HUGE. (and going too fast, while the drivers yammer on cell phones)

$3.08 or .09 or some such around here. It changes every day.

[Robert Toy]

Originally Posted by Sheryl Nantus

as for the "it's all Bush's fault!" I see that my home country has prices of over $4.00 a gallon. Riddle me that one out.

Have no fear...someone will come up with a reason...

[johnnysannie]

Originally Posted by Robert Toy

Americans have three choices, consume less oil/gas; get off your butts and walk/ride a bicycle/use public transport (where available) or nationalize the oil companies. It works in Venezuela; gas is only fourteen (14) cents a gallon!

Viva chavez!!

Consuming less oil/gas is something that we all should do. My family is doing it now; so are many people that I know. But everyone would have to do it and that is not happening. Why, Bush burns up more fuel in one flight of Air Force One than I do in six months or more.

Public transportation is wonderful in places where it exists but as was covered in another thread a few days ago, the majority of US citizens live where there is no public transportation available. No buses, no subways, not even cabs where I live.

Riding a bike is a good idea and in fact I have seen more adults on bikes in recent weeks than I have for years. But it is not always a safe option (many places have no lanes for bikes and where I live, in small town suburbs, I would take my life in my hands to cross the four lane major highway on my bike to reach town)

Walking is also a good option if you live where you can walk to stores, shops, etc. but I don't.

Nationalizing the oil companies is an excellent idea but Bush & Cheney, oil men that they are, would never even consider that one. And if attempted, the oil execs would scream and the fight would be on. It's not impossible but it is also not very doable at this time, in this country.

So that leaves most of us with conserving gasoline as best we can but we still have to drive to work, we still have to make trips for necessary shopping like groceries, and other vital errands (like doctors' appointments)

[DonnaDuck]

I just want to know when the oil consuming world, the oil companies and the president himself is going to let it sink in that oil isn't on a never-ending tap. It WILL run out and, at the rate we're going, sooner rather than later. Well, at the rate we're going with genetic cloing, we'll be able to make the dinosaurs to kill and compress into more oil so maybe that's why we're so blinded. There's still a fair amount of oil to be had (Siberia, for one) but it'll run out eventually. I'm sure many people are going on the "not in my lifetime" mantra with that, though.

[johnnysannie]

Originally Posted by DonnaDuck

I just want to know when the oil consuming world, the oil companies and the president himself is going to let it sink in that oil isn't on a never-ending tap. It WILL run out and, at the rate we're going, sooner rather than later. Well, at the rate we're going with genetic cloing, we'll be able to make the dinosaurs to kill and compress into more oil so maybe that's why we're so blinded. There's still a fair amount of oil to be had (Siberia, for one) but it'll run out eventually. I'm sure many people are going on the "not in my lifetime" mantra with that, though.

True and then where will we all be?

[Robert Toy]

Originally Posted by johnnysannie

Consuming less oil/gas is something that we all should do. My family is doing it now; so are many people that I know. But everyone would have to do it and that is not happening. Why, Bush burns up more fuel in one flight of Air Force One than I do in six months or more.

Public transportation is wonderful in places where it exists but as was covered in another thread a few days ago, the majority of US citizens live where there is no public transportation available. No buses, no subways, not even cabs where I live.

Riding a bike is a good idea and in fact I have seen more adults on bikes in recent weeks than I have for years. But it is not always a safe option (many places have no lanes for bikes and where I live, in small town suburbs, I would take my life in my hands to cross the four lane major highway on my bike to reach town)

Walking is also a good option if you live where you can walk to stores, shops, etc. but I don't.

Nationalizing the oil companies is an excellent idea but Bush & Cheney, oil men that they are, would never even consider that one. And if attempted, the oil execs would scream and the fight would be on. It's not impossible but it is also not very doable at this time, in this country.

So that leaves most of us with conserving gasoline as best we can but we still have to drive to work, we still have to make trips for necessary shopping like groceries, and other vital errands (like doctors' appointments)

Is it possible for you to make a post without blaming Bush?

I know this is not going to be any news to you, but Air Force One (It is only called that when the president is on board BTW) has been used by ALL presidents.

Now you can run off and Google how many hours each of the presidents flew the most.

[Potluck]

The price for a barrel of oil will exceed $150 before the year is out. There is no reason for the price to come down. Russia and China will continue to require more and more oil and China eventually will exceed the US as the number one consumer. It's a good time to buy oil and alternative energy stocks.

[Sheryl Nantus]

Originally Posted by Robert Toy

Is it possible for you to make a post without blaming Bush?

I think it's impossible...



considering there was also a fuel crisis under Carter in the 70's, as I recall... oh, wait, there may have been a Bush around somewhere doing something then too!

[Robert Toy]

Originally Posted by Sheryl Nantus

I think it's impossible...



considering there was also a fuel crisis under Carter in the 70's, as I recall... oh, wait, there may have been a Bush around somewhere doing something then too!

Yup, If memory serves me right he and Cheney were plotting their take over...

[Patrick L]

Originally Posted by Potluck

The price for a barrel of oil will exceed $150 before the year is out. There is no reason for the price to come down. Russia and China will continue to require more and more oil and China eventually will exceed the US as the number one consumer. It's a good time to buy oil and alternative energy stocks.

Scary stuff. If you own a large SUV and need to downsize, better sell it quick!

[Unique]

Originally Posted by Robert Toy

Yup, If memory serves me right he and Cheney were plotting their take over...

You jest but a young Dick Cheney was right there learning under Nixon, et.al. during Watergate....so yeah, plotting a take over is pretty accurate, IMO.

[Robert Toy]

Originally Posted by Patrick L

Scary stuff. If you own a large SUV and need to downsize, better sell it quick!

They better keep it, when the house is foreclosed need someplace to bed down....:

[Sheryl Nantus]

Originally Posted by Unique

You jest but a young Dick Cheney was right there learning under Nixon, et.al. during Watergate....so yeah, plotting a take over is pretty accurate, IMO.

and that's why I can't take Americans seriously at times...

[III]

The only real solution is to come up with an alternative to oil. There are plenty of conspiracy theories about alternative-fuel and water-fueled engines that have been developed over the years and crushed by the oil companies. But I believe within the next 20 - 40 years we'll have replaced oil with some other technology. Hopefully poop.

[RumpleTumbler]

If oil company executives starting doing the Jimmy Hoffa then prices would come down as well.

[Patrick L]

Originally Posted by III

The only real solution is to come up with an alternative to oil. There are plenty of conspiracy theories about alternative-fuel and water-fueled engines that have been developed over the years and crushed by the oil companies. But I believe within the next 20 - 40 years we'll have replaced oil with some other technology. Hopefully poop.

Definitely the only way.