The New Never-Ending PublishAmerica Thread (NEPAT)

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deepprincealain

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No problem! POPCORN? :popcorn: If they said to this person that the contract was invalid because of the changes, then why do it for someone else? Unless he did it the wrong way.

Thanks for the popcorn! Actually the reason the wording bothers me so is that it seems to me that it would read one way, before you sign the contract, and a different way later--unless, as you say, he made the changes incorrectly.
 

JimmyD1318

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Thanks for the popcorn! Actually the reason the wording bothers me so is that it seems to me that it would read one way, before you sign the contract, and a different way later--unless, as you say, he made the changes incorrectly.

More than likely it was because he signed it, then sent it to them with the changes. I guess what he should have done was make the changes that he wanted, then sent it back to them. And then wait and see what they would have said.
 

Sheryl Nantus

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the facts stand that the BASIC PublishAmerica contract is truly a horror for any writer to sign.

-the royalty rate is well below what the standard is for the industry.
-the seven-year lock-in for your book is NOT standard for publishers.
-the continued push to buy your own book via emails is NOT done by any publisher with any legitimacy (I'm still waiting for people to prove any other publisher does this, BTW - offer still stands to produce an email from a legitimate publisher offering authors a deal on their own books).
-the lack of editing and even offering the OPTION for you to opt out of editing is so out of recognized standards for publishers that it's over the moon.

doesn't matter how you "negotiate" these points it's still a contract that is crappy, to say the least. Compare it to the SFWA's example or any other legitimate contract - you can't negotiate your way out of a bag filled with crap and say you don't smell something afterwards.
 

CatSlave

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Thanks for the popcorn! Actually the reason the wording bothers me so is that it seems to me that it would read one way, before you sign the contract, and a different way later--unless, as you say, he made the changes incorrectly.

I repeat myself:
If PA sends you a contract and you make *any* changes and initial them before you send it back, PA will tell you it is unacceptable. ALWAYS.
You may request changes (in advance) to two clauses: five copies of your book and an increase in the upper royalty figures.
Those two, and ONLY those two changes will be allowed by the Acquisitions Department.
That is Company Policy, etched in stone and in writing in the Employee Handbook.

If you can somehow get past the Acquisitions Department to negotiate with Miranda, Larry or Willem, maybe you can get a better deal.
But I bet you a dollar you will NEVER be able to contact them for contract negotiations.
Unless you piss them off and they send you a tone letter, but that would be later in the process of getting 'published' by PA.

Send in a manuscript (preferably a real dud) and see for yourself.
Just don't sign the contract.
 

deepprincealain

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Sheryl, Cat, I don't disagree at all. My point though was that in addition to that injury, they add the insult of utilizing weasel words not backed up by any hard facts in these types of communications.

It's a bad idea to go with them based on your points, but then add to that that they utilize communications which are vague and possibly challenging to substantiate in the beginning and which seem intentionally misleading once the honeymoon wears off, making PA a lot of sound and fury, signifying heartbreak for many writers.
 
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DaveKuzminski

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Here's an experiment for Rogers to try. Send PA a manuscript without revealing your true name. When the manuscript is accepted and a contract is received, try changing more than the number of copies and royalty rate. See how well PA negotiates then.
 

deepprincealain

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I already read it--she did an excellent job of explaining why these are not the people you want involved in your book. I figured that since it was freely available here and better than I could have done, no sense in rehashing it.

Ultimately it was not posted here that negotiations were possible but I felt that due to Lane's (now deleted) posts, it might be read that way by some who might come to this thread for the purpose of looking into PA.

Also it struck me as odd that there are lots of statements that PA will not negotiate a contract but I, personally, did not find a whole lot of documentation to back that up until I read Timothy's story. Not that it was necessary, as by their business model alone I would say most should be deterred from PA.

I thought I should point out that one person had documentation that PA does not negotiate the contract that is itself in question. For another reason, I also find that email questionable.
 
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Sheryl Nantus

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well, it stands to reason that PA is going to try and take advantage every single way they can - starting with their website!

and once they trick the unsuspecting author into signing the contract it takes forever to try and break out - as long as you're selling books for them (usually by buying them and reselling!) they're not going to let you go.

any announced "negotiations" should be taken with a huge grain of salt unless you're dealing with a rather famous person who might actually know what's supposed to be in a contract - and even then, they're fools for going with PA.
 

deepprincealain

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well, it stands to reason that PA is going to try and take advantage every single way they can - starting with their website!

and once they trick the unsuspecting author into signing the contract it takes forever to try and break out - as long as you're selling books for them (usually by buying them and reselling!) they're not going to let you go.

any announced "negotiations" should be taken with a huge grain of salt unless you're dealing with a rather famous person who might actually know what's supposed to be in a contract - and even then, they're fools for going with PA.

Couldn't have said it better myself. :popcorn:
 

acrooker

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Here's an experiment for Rogers to try. Send PA a manuscript without revealing your true name. When the manuscript is accepted and a contract is received, try changing more than the number of copies and royalty rate. See how well PA negotiates then.


Dave,

I suggest you forget about both Lane and myself we are trying to escape from this nut house.

I can only speak for myself and not for him, but I have tried for several days in many varied ways to get my point accross. I have been very unsuccessful. Failure is not a common theme in my life. I can usually think of a way to succeed.

I pull no punches when I speak. As previously stated, I came here to correct some things said about Dick and myself. I was not welcomed or respected, Fine, I tried to leave and that was even worse.

I have written and asked to be removed and have received no answer.

Now, I am in a quandary. The only thing left to do is disrespect you.

So, no offense, but I hope you loose your suit soundly. You deserve to be sued and worse. Back aways, you asked if I wished to sue you. the answer is, "No." I wouldn't even think of bothering--for me to sue someone they need to have something I want. You, Sir have nothing I want or need.

I hope PA far exceeds Random House and Penquin and any other publisher. I hope they become perfect. I love them and I love my book and am very glad I published with them.

I hope you regain your sanity. Now please get a a moderator down here to tell me off and throw me out for ever and ever and ever.

Thank you,
Disrespectfully,
Alice
 
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Marian Perera

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I suggest you forget about both Lane and myself we are trying to escape from this nut house.

Trying to escape? Who's holding a gun to your head and forcing you to post here?

I hope PA far exceeds Random House and Penquin and any other publisher.

Far exceeds them in the number of dissatisfied customers and the number of people scammed?

It already has.

Far exceeds them in the amount of disdain and ridicule it has earned?

It already has.

I hope you regain your sanity. Now please get a amoderator down here to tell me off and throw me out for ever and ever and ever.

It's pretty sad that you lack the self-control to simply leave this website and are trying what's called "suicide by moderator" instead.
 
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Mel

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Dave,

I suggest you forget about both Lane and myself we are trying to escape from this nut house.

Remove the AW link from your favorites/bookmarks and forget it's here. Simple as that.

I can only speak for myself and not for him, but I have tried for several days in many varied ways to get my point accross. I have been very unsuccessful. Failure is not a common theme in my life. I can usually think of a way to succeed.
You did get your point across. You're happy with PA and have been told numerous times that if you are happy with them then we're happy for you.

I pull no punches when I speak. As previously stated, I came here to correct some things said about Dick and myself. I was not welcomed or respected, Fine, I tried to leave and that was even worse.
You were welcomed, as is everyone who comes to AW. Respect? For me that's something that isn't given freely; it has to be earned. You tried to leave? No one stops anyone from leaving AW, so that doesn't make any sense.

I have written and asked to be removed and have received no answer.
To my knowledge, accounts are not removed. Not saying they can't be, but I've never seen nor heard of it happening.

Now, I am in a quandary. The only thing left to do is disrespect you.
And that is your free choice. Respect or disrespect anyone you wish.

I hope PA far exceeds Random House and Penquin and any other publisher. I hope they become perfect. I love them and I love my book and am very glad I published with them.
And yet you stated earlier that those two publishers were ones you truly wished to be published by.

PA will never exceed Random House or Penguin, or any other legitimate publishing house. As far as PA is concerned they are perfect. Perfect for them. They run it the way they want to and have no wish to change, as long as they can fill their own pockets with money from their authors.

I hope you regain your sanity. Now please get a amoderator down here to tell me off and throw me out for ever and ever and ever.
We don't run screaming to the mods to kick someone out. They monitor all threads here and make their own decisions, and do it wisely. The door at AW swings both ways. All one needs to do is walk away and not look back. Simple as that.
 

Jersey Chick

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Dave,

I suggest you forget about both Lane and myself we are trying to escape from this nut house.

No one is forcing you to stay here. But before you go about casting such judgments, perhaps you ought to see just what this site has to offer. Frankly, I find the sweeping generalization pretty offensive - especially since no one has come to drag you in here by your hair.

I can only speak for myself and not for him, but I have tried for several days in many varied ways to get my point accross. I have been very unsuccessful. Failure is not a common theme in my life. I can usually think of a way to succeed.

Nonsense - which is the most polite way I can phrase this. No one has missed your point. There hasn't been a lot of agreement - so I guess if that's missing the point... Succeed at what? Getting everyone to smile and nod and agree that PA is the best thing to happen to authors? Sorry - that's not going to happen.

I pull no punches when I speak. As previously stated, I came here to correct some things said about Dick and myself. I was not welcomed or respected, Fine, I tried to leave and that was even worse.
Again - complete and total NONSENSE. You were welcomed here. No one trashed you, nor would they. As for respect, I saw plenty of it until snark came into play.

You didn't try to leave. You flounced so many times I lost track of it. If you want to go, do so. If you want to stay, do so. I'm tired of this drama.

I have written and asked to be removed and have received no answer.
From what I understand, accounts are not deleted. If you don't want to stay... well, see above. Don't blame AW - it's not us who make you post.

Now, I am in a quandary. The only thing left to do is disrespect you.

Why? Just. Don't. Post. There's no need for disrespect - that's kind of childish, IMHO.

So, no offense, but I hope you loose your suit soundly. You deserve to be sued and worse. Back aways, you asked if I wished to sue you. the answer is, "No." I wouldn't even think of bothering--for me to sue someone they need to have something I want. You, Sir have nothing I want or need.

Give me a break.

I hope PA far exceeds Random House and Penquin and any other publisher. I hope they become perfect. I love them and I love my book and am very glad I published with them.
You're kidding, right?

As for being glad you published with them - more power to you. But for me, it's more than a hobby, or a role-playing game. But if it works for you, terrif. Somehow, I don't think Random House or Penguin or any other true publisher is losing sleep over being bested by PA.

I hope you regain your sanity. Now please get a a moderator down here to tell me off and throw me out for ever and ever and ever.

See above. Who, exactly, is twisting one of your arms behind your back and forcing you to type with the other?


Thank you,
Disrespectfully,
Alice

And another flounce.

This is beyond ridiculous. Really.

Truly.
 
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xhouseboy

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Dave,

I pull no punches when I speak. As previously stated, I came here to correct some things said about Dick and myself. I was not welcomed or respected, Fine, I tried to leave and that was even worse.

I have written and asked to be removed and have received no answer.

Call Mulder and Scully.

You would appear to be trapped in Cyberspace.

I don't think they've got an X File on that one yet.
 

Dave.C.Robinson

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Dave,

I suggest you forget about both Lane and myself we are trying to escape from this nut house.

I can only speak for myself and not for him, but I have tried for several days in many varied ways to get my point accross. I have been very unsuccessful. Failure is not a common theme in my life. I can usually think of a way to succeed.

I pull no punches when I speak. As previously stated, I came here to correct some things said about Dick and myself. I was not welcomed or respected, Fine, I tried to leave and that was even worse.

I have written and asked to be removed and have received no answer.

Now, I am in a quandary. The only thing left to do is disrespect you.

So, no offense, but I hope you loose your suit soundly. You deserve to be sued and worse. Back aways, you asked if I wished to sue you. the answer is, "No." I wouldn't even think of bothering--for me to sue someone they need to have something I want. You, Sir have nothing I want or need.

I hope PA far exceeds Random House and Penquin and any other publisher. I hope they become perfect. I love them and I love my book and am very glad I published with them.

I hope you regain your sanity. Now please get a a moderator down here to tell me off and throw me out for ever and ever and ever.

Thank you,
Disrespectfully,
Alice

I'm glad you love your publisher. Personally I hate them.

It's not because of their business model-- there is a valid place in the industry for that model.

PA tells everyone they are a 'traditional' publisher, which leads people to think they are a commercial publisher with a business model aimed at selling to the book trade. However they are on record as saying their primary source of income comes from marketing books to their authors, not the book trade.

They feed on dreams, charging their customers for the same dreams they're putting forever out of reach.
 

DonnaDuck

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Now, I am in a quandary. The only thing left to do is disrespect you.

Or, you know, stop posting all together. Any obligation that you have to being here you impose on yourself. No one is imposing it on you. Just because no one's booted you doesn't mean it's an open invitation to hang yourself by insulting other members.

As a lurker, I've seen those that are opposed to PA being open and understanding about those that aren't (for the most part). From what I've read, those that are for PA are just plain unable to grasp the concept that many more people are turned off by the company than turned on. It's a fact of life. Deal with it. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're disrespecting you.

Your decision is yours and yours alone and everyone here has demonstrated that time and time again and yet is has been ignored. People are geniunely intrigued why someone, anyone, would published with PA considering their absolutely horrid reputation that a simple Google search could uncover instead of going by the means of Lulu.

Personally, I'm going to work to make my book publishable, and legitimately. I'm not going to jump at PA's abmismal bait because I'm so desperate to get my book published. I'd much rather have the respect from the broader writing and publishing community by publishing with a legitimate house instead of just wanted to see my name on a cover. I can easily do something like that with Lulu with little to no cost to myself.

Didn't the SFFG (Science Fiction and Fantasy Guild, is that what they're called?, you know who I'm talking about) actually prove that PA will pick up any trash on the street and publish it? They submitted a book with repeat chapters, nonsensical paragraphs and basically writing that a monkey with a function foot could do just to prove their point . . . and they did. PA snatched it up, giving it the "chance it deserves." They only retracted the contract when the Guild published an article on their sham, outright proving that PA doesn't read a damn thing that gets submitted to them, they don't edit anything and are more than willing to take in your money for it. After the article was released, another email was sent to the "author" claiming that "upon further review" there were major errors that needed to be fixed prior to print. Coincidence? Depends on your level of naivety.

It has been proven time and time and time and time and time and time again that it's quantity, not quality with PA. There are numerous documents all over the web, firsthand accounts and dozens upon dozens of threads on this board alone attesting to this information.

Knowing all of this information, yes, we genuinely want to you why you would do business with this company. It's akin to the housing market now. Lenders had money to spend. There were many people that wanted homes but rightly couldn't afford them. Instead of waiting, improving their credit and improving their financial situation, they knowingly took out loans under ARMs for am amoun that they couldn't afford in a million years because they couldn't wait to do it right. And where are they now? In foreclosure (yes, I understand much more than the consumer is at fault here but that's not to say the consumer was entirely ignorant of the fact they were buying a house they couldn't afford).

Impatience is what I see. It took JK Rowling 26 publishers before Bloomsbury took the bait for Harry Potter. 26. There are better ways to go about publishing than walking into a tiger pit covered in blood.
 
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deepprincealain

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I can only speak for myself and not for him, but I have tried for several days in many varied ways to get my point accross. I have been very unsuccessful. Failure is not a common theme in my life. I can usually think of a way to succeed.

I think you did get your point across. That you did not convince people is not the same thing.

But then, why is it necessary that everybody agree on everything? I don't understand that way of looking at things. A lot of people disagree on a lot of things and yet it seems the world still turns. Is Wal-Mart controversial? Is politics? Then I think we can agree that PA is just another thing that has been added to the list of controversial things.

That is if we're all able to decide if we want to stay on the board or leave, which I'm not sure you have indicated what exactly is preventing you from, in your words, "trying to escape."
 

DaveKuzminski

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Alice, you want to be kicked out of AW? Just show disrespect to another PA author on that author's guestbook and sign your name to your post. The AW folks will be glad to boot you out then.

I don't have a guestbook of my own or you could post disrespectful remarks in it. However, even if you did, I wouldn't report you because I oppose banning or censoring people for speaking their minds. After all, I have a knack for bringing out the best in people, even you. I'll even wish you well.
 

Joanna_S

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You are too funny, Alice. Trapped at AW. Unable to leave and unable to stop flouncing. Oh, the humanity! The horror! Jane, stop this crazy thing!

Thanks for the morning laugh!

-- Joanna
 

acrooker

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To All,

Thanks for your "help." I certainly have self-control. I can walk away--the point is my name is on a list of members. I do not want it there.

Who, in their right mind would want to be associated with such unimaginative people that they can post about the same old thing day in and day out?

Look around you, "by beholding you become changed." If you want to be writers--try reading something worthwhile. There is nothing original here. Page after page of the same old same old.

I guarantee you I could walk into most any mental ward and find better conversation than I see exhibited here.

You make such points about your rights--I want mine. I do not want my name on your list of members.

This is America--remember?

By the way, I am not a writer, but I certainly know some great ones--published by PA too.

Don't let that eat you alive, but who,here on, this thead has won any great literary awards?
I doubt they got them here.

Start thinking--you have a mob mentality.
 
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Marie Pacha

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Y'all are not making it easy for me to behave!

And I can't stop laughing either.
 

DonnaDuck

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To All,

Thanks for your "help." I certainly have self-control. I can walk away

Obviously you don't and obviously you can't. But keep snipping. It's getting to be really funny! I should print this stuff out and read it on my flight later today!
 

Marie Pacha

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Alice,

People have been posting here on the same topic for years.

Why pray tell did you join this board in the first place if it's so unimaginative?

And why did you come back when you are trying so hard to escape?

Marie
 
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