Question about profanity in novels...

Another note:

I find it sorta lame when something scary or amazing is happening and a character starts throwing curses out like they just learned them. If it's in the characters nature, it's better in normalish conversation.

Ex.) Character blows his brains out in front of another character.

"Oh shit, dude, oh fuck, oh fuck. Dude, he just fucking . . . oh shit!"

LAME. Use swear words as a seasoning instead of as something that says: My character is feeling very strongly about something. It's lazy writing.

seun said:

Whether the writer swears, dislikes swearing or swears like me doesn't matter at all. What matters is whether the characters would swear. The writer's comfort level is the least important thing I can fucking well think of.

seun, known to swear for no good reason.

Click to expand...

You should tell my mom that. . . .

Mom read some of the swear words I used in my WIP (mostly from my 12 yr. old MC), and said, "I'm gonna beatcha!".

I'm 36! LOL!

It took me a long time to feel comfortable with using swear words in my writing, just for that reason.

But then I read a WONDERFUL piece of advice somewhere that said something like: you have to write like you AREN'T afraid of what you're mother is going to say!

Ever since then, I've been able to do it without feeling so guilty about doing it. ROFLOL!

You almost never need to do it

Swearing generally makes the writing weaker--it certainly doesn't always, but it commonly does. A lot of people do swear all the time, but books aren't usually written the way that people speak. (How many "Uh"'s have you read lately?)

I've just written a 200-page novel that follows a teenage girl through the terrible and all-too-common experience of becoming a slave in today's world, and there's barely a curse to be found in it. This is a story about a world where cursing would be a ridiculous thing to worry about, where the protagonist's primary concern would be keeping her friends sane in the midst of terrible abuse and surviving constant rape--but being cursed at is a regular part of that life.

The reader knows about the cursing, knows that it's common and normal and just a part of the day, but (s)he doesn't have to hear it all the time. The net result is I get a book that more people can read without being too offended to continue, and when I do use a curse, even restricting myself to a relatively weak one, it is much more powerful than it would otherwise be.

We shouldn't curse just because it's in the vernacular; writing can be just as strong without it. It's only when it serves a real purpose that can't be accomplished as well in another way--which is uncommon--that it should be done.

My $0.02

~Terry Lee Wright

Well spoken, Terry.



I've come to that understanding lately, also, when I finally figured out that my novel is probably more for an MG audience (9 to 12 yrs.) than for YA (12+ yrs.).

I did a count recently, and had 11 swear words in 150 pages. I cut all of them but 4 out of 40K words, and those I think are essential to the story, so unless an editor later tells me to take them out, they're staying.

Swear words and writing...the old question. I want to throw in my two cents here.

Using the seven-words-you-can't-say-on-television, IMHO, needs to be done sparingly. It's not like they're anything new in writing. In fact, swear words are so overused, you aren't going to impress readers by using them. They have become somewhat trite.

From the Submissions page at the Escape Velocity Magazine:

'Try to avoid the Seven-Words-You-Can't-Say-on-Television. Our eyes are drawn to the words, rather than your story, which usually results in rejection...'

Click to expand...

One of the few places they work for me is if a character hits himself on the thumb with a hammer. Even your mother would swear after doing this...

terry said:

Swearing generally makes the writing weaker--it certainly doesn't always, but it commonly does.

Click to expand...

I don't agree. It really depends on your genres, the story, the characters, and the audience. For adult fiction, I think the appropriate expletives add to the verisimilitude of the story when appropriate. A gangster is not going to say, "Gosh darn it, I shot my damn foot." I don't see how swearing "generally" makes the writing weaker. I think weak writing makes everything weak, including excessive or wrong use of expletives.

I can't imagine The Departed without any swear words and still be powerful and authentic. I can't imagine Betty White's character in the otherwise flaccid Lake Placid be more effective if she hadn't cursed. I can't imagine some of Stephen King's characters not swearing. I can't imagine Fight Club without any swearing. Sometimes cursing is not only essential, but crucial to the storytelling and characterization.

That said, I also can't imagine Hermione swearing in Harry Potter. Harry and Ron, yes, but not Hermione. It's just not her character, I don't think.

when I do use a curse, even restricting myself to a relatively weak one, it is much more powerful than it would otherwise be.

Click to expand...

When you're "restricting" yourself to a weaker curse word, you're not being truthful to the character and you're censoring as an author, based on your own issues with cursing. To me, that's truly a "restriction" you put on your work, and it can't be "more powerful." Now if you're saying you only use curse words to bring power to your story -- that is understandable, but only when you're not using it so sparingly that it jars the readers.

A writer should always strive to use the right word, the most appropriate word. And that include swear words.

It also really depends on the time frame. I'm writing a book set in the 60's and 70's and in reality, most people would not use Anglo Saxon words in common speech, though they existed. It was not culturally acceptable. It was only about the 80's that I started to hear the F word used as a "spacer" (that f-ing butt-head took my coffee table book!)

Isn't it funny that while grammarians reject the use of multiple adjectives or adverbials, they say it is okay to use expletives?

Using salty language is a habit, and so your characters should have a background in which they were not punished for saying the F-word. I have plenty of socially acceptable euphemisms, but occasionally bring out the big cannons, but that is because my characters are hard talking "carny types." As a writer, knowing a variety of words, and using them is part of writing. I would rather use a "softer" word than something that might cause a reader to put the book down.

I'd use profanity if it helps characterization. You can say you don't like profanity, but that's invalid if your character feels the need to swear. You're writing about people who aren't you.

Use Her Name said:

It also really depends on the time frame. I'm writing a book set in the 60's and 70's and in reality, most people would not use Anglo Saxon words in common speech, though they existed.

Click to expand...

I think it depends on the context. Middle-class men would probably have used much stronger language alone with the guys than they would in "mixed company," for example.

maestrowork said:

A writer should always strive to use the right word, the most appropriate word. And that include swear words.

Click to expand...

I have to agree with Ray, for the most part. It depends on intended audience, character and tone of the story. If you're writing a story that's not intended to be darker and more realistic, something that's a lighter in tone or perhaps more uplifting but still serious, it might be okay to fudge on the authenticity of the dialogue. But obviously if your story and characters are meant to be grittier and grimmer you need to have them speak like gritty, grim people.

Basically it boils down to being true to the characters and world you are creating.

I don't agree. It really depends on your genres, the story, the characters, and the audience. For adult fiction, I think the appropriate expletives add to the verisimilitude of the story when appropriate. A gangster is not going to say, "Gosh darn it, I shot my damn foot." I don't see how swearing "generally" makes the writing weaker. I think weak writing makes everything weak, including excessive or wrong use of expletives.

Click to expand...

While I understand where you're coming from, I think swearing often weakens a story for some combination of the following reasons: (a) it draws attention to the swearing and away from the story, (b) not swearing in a situation where it's one possible likely act makes the author think more thoroughly about one's options for the scene, which means that a better overall picture can be put together and that if a swear word is used, it's used because it's the best tool for the job, and (c) swearing, especially if done gratuitously, can make the story less accessible to a number of readers.

I'm definitely not advocating the "Gosh darn it!" approach, though. That's generally only useful mockingly or perhaps in the occasional looking-at-authority-figures-to-see-if-it-gets-one-in-trouble sort of scene.

maestrowork said:

When you're "restricting" yourself to a weaker curse word, you're not being truthful to the character and you're censoring as an author, based on your own issues with cursing. To me, that's truly a "restriction" you put on your work, and it can't be "more powerful." Now if you're saying you only use curse words to bring power to your story -- that is understandable, but only when you're not using it so sparingly that it jars the readers.

A writer should always strive to use the right word, the most appropriate word. And that include swear words.

Click to expand...

As authors, we decide how to expose our characters to the reader, even though our characters may choose how to act. We can take one act of a character and change it to another and have the second be no less authentic, or perhaps be more authentic, than the first. There's more than one exact story that's true to a given character and more than one exact verbiage that's possible for a given character, otherwise editing would be little more than checking for comma placement.

The reason for a restriction to relatively light swear words, where one chooses to do that, is that that restriction makes the writing stronger--the light words can jar enough to be felt and evoke a significant response from the reader, but not so much that it draws them into a meta-awareness mode about the writing style. Interestingly, come to think of it, they can even be effective in a story that's littered with harsher obscenities, since their very rarity in such a story could lend their connotations weight.

I'm not saying swearing should never be done, but that a writer's default should always be not to swear unless there's a strong reason for it. Like breaking the rules of standard written English: there are times when it makes sense, but it's something to be conservative about.

Of course, we all have different ideas about exactly how to write, otherwise we'd have nothing to say to one another.

Best,
~Terry Lee Wright

Am I the only one who thinks a novel about a hitman who thinks swearing is dirty would be hilarious?

Seriously, it's a tool like any other. I consider the character and the reader in deciding that sort of thing.

lexxi said:

I think it depends on the context. Middle-class men would probably have used much stronger language alone with the guys than they would in "mixed company," for example.

Click to expand...

One of the most interesting aspects of language is how multi-leveled it is. You use a totally different vocabulary with your homies, than with your boss or mother. That's why when I hear the critisism that the character's language was "erratic," or changed often, I just go, "eh..."

Interesting fact:
In airplane crashes, the black box usually records the last words of the flight crew. That word is usually "Fuck."

terry said:

Swearing generally makes the writing weaker--it certainly doesn't always, but it commonly does.

Click to expand...

Too much of a generalisation for me to accept.

terry said:

While I understand where you're coming from, I think swearing often weakens a story for some combination of the following reasons...

Click to expand...

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on whether swear words weaken the writing. Please note that I'm not talking about unnecessary, incessant, gratuitous swearing. Unnecessary, incessant, gratuitous anything is just a sign of bad writing. I'm talking about when it makes sense to the characters and the story. Swear words are just like any other words -- it's part of the writer's toolbox to write the best and honestly she can.

As authors, we decide how to expose our characters to the reader, even though our characters may choose how to act.

Click to expand...

No, as writers, we have the responsibility to present the truth to the readers. If the characters choose to swear, they swear. If you don't want to write about it, then you shouldn't write about it. If your story or language is too much for your target audience, chances are you're writing the wrong story for the wrong audience. You do have a choice to decide on what kind of stories and characters you want to tell, but after that, your responsibility as a writer is to be truthful.

We can take one act of a character and change it to another and have the second be no less authentic, or perhaps be more authentic, than the first.

Click to expand...

When you change the characters to suit your own whim, then you're being unauthentic as a writer. And the readers can sense that.

The reason for a restriction to relatively light swear words, where one chooses to do that, is that that restriction makes the writing stronger--the light words can jar enough to be felt and evoke a significant response from the reader

Click to expand...

No, the light words will jar a lot because the readers will sense that your scene and your characters' actions are unauthentic. When a soldier gets ambushed, he's going to say "fuck" and not "darn." Much like if Hermione utters "fuck" the readers will sense the inauthenticity. Same idea. You have to be true to the character and the story you're telling.

...but not so much that it draws them into a meta-awareness mode about the writing style. Interestingly, come to think of it, they can even be effective in a story that's littered with harsher obscenities, since their very rarity in such a story could lend their connotations weight.

Click to expand...

I think much of this "meta-awareness" speaks more about your own comfort level as a writer/reader as far as language is concerned than the true issue of being true to your characters. You're aware of it because you're uncomfortable with it. Like I said, if you find yourself writing a story where the characters do things you feel like toning down or censoring, then you're writing the wrong story.

I find the idea of Hermione saying fuck strangely arousing but that's my problem. I'll deal with it.

Lexxi's right that context is important. Most workplaces have become more cautious about swearing, not less, because of laws about hostile work environment. Not to say no one ever swears, but most people censor themselves to some degree in that situation.

There are people who swears multiple times in a short dialog. I think a truthful recap in an inspired character would make the story extremely painful to read. In that case, I think establishing the style of how this guy always talk like, and then he can speak very limitedly and readers may still (automatically) add the swear words in their head. But on the other hand, making this guy talk like Pope Benedict would probably make it too humorous.

I've been with my wife for almost two decades and she never swears, almost never. Once I came out of the bathroom and she was playing a computer game and she said loudly, "Shit!" She lost a character for good, one that she had been building for near a month. If I were to write a story on this, her uncharacteristic utter of that word would make a strong indication of how pissed she was.

Soccer Mom said:

Am I the only one who thinks a novel about a hitman who thinks swearing is dirty would be hilarious?

Click to expand...

Check out the cable series The Wire. One of the meanest characters on the show, Omar "The Terrible", never curses. That was pointed out on the "making of" show.

What about your agent or publisher? If this is a YA novel what are the guidelines?