• Guest please check The Index before starting a thread.

Tate Publishing

Mr.H.

SO many books!!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 1, 2008
Messages
194
Reaction score
8
Location
Cold, Minnesota
Website
www.helpateacher.net
My most sincere, heartfelt thanks to all of you for speaking up and caring enough to help me make a wise choice. I haven't signed anything yet, and no, to be honest I haven't exhausted every other avenue. Perhaps I was close to falling for the feel-good dream, and being brand new to all of this, I maybe narrowly avoided having "sucker" branded on my forehead. But although I am new, I am not completely naive and I made sure that these investors knew they might be throwing their money away, and put that all in writing.
Getting an acceptance letter feels good. Having people want to throw money at the project feels even better. It's hard to take off the rose-colored glasses. But having experienced writers and writer wannabes looking out for each other like this feels best of all, so again, thanks. I'll definitely look into the other suggestions made by you guys, and keep you posted.
 

IceCreamEmpress

Hapless Virago
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 2, 2007
Messages
6,449
Reaction score
1,321
If you have investors, their money would be much better spent in helping you create a nano-press self-publishing venture for your book. The money you'd be giving Tate could instead pay for people who knew what they were doing and worked to your direction; you'd be able to have a much more hands-on role in the process and get a better product at the same or lesser cost.
 

Mr.H.

SO many books!!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 1, 2008
Messages
194
Reaction score
8
Location
Cold, Minnesota
Website
www.helpateacher.net
If you have investors, their money would be much better spent in helping you create a nano-press self-publishing venture for your book. The money you'd be giving Tate could instead pay for people who knew what they were doing and worked to your direction; you'd be able to have a much more hands-on role in the process and get a better product at the same or lesser cost.

Which brings me around to another uncomfortable realization; if I self-publish (which is something I am less and less OK with the more I read all of the postings against it), I will need to provide the illustrations that my story is dependent upon. For some, that may be a nice diversion from the writing, for others maybe a great tie-in to the process. For me, I can't even draw a decent stick figure. See, this is another place where I liked Tate, because they would do the illustrations for me. I know, I know, most publishers will make those arrangements too.
I just thought Tate was a mainline publisher, because they said they were a mainline publisher. An easy mistake to make, no?
 

Mr.H.

SO many books!!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 1, 2008
Messages
194
Reaction score
8
Location
Cold, Minnesota
Website
www.helpateacher.net
If you self-publish, you'll need to hire the illustrator. If you go with Tate -- you'll wind up paying for the illustrator.
So, it's kinda a wash isn't it? I mean, and I'm not trying to "sell" any side, but if I send them $4000 and they illustrate my book and send me back the $4000, didn't I get it free?
I know, I know... IF the sales reach 5000 copies, we've been down that road...
GOD, why do I find myself back on this fence? I was so resolute against it.
 
Last edited:

Gravity

Seen 'em come, seen 'em go
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
3,942
Reaction score
965
Age
74
Location
Once you've heard the truth, everything else is ju
I think what Jim is saying is that for either vanity pubbing or going with Tate, you are going to have to pay an illustrator out of your own pocket. If you go with a commercial (i.e., non-vanity) house, they pay for it. Regardless of how many copies you do or don't sell.
 

Roger J Carlson

Moderator In Name Only
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 19, 2005
Messages
12,799
Reaction score
2,500
Location
West Michigan
So, it's kinda a wash isn't it? I mean, and I'm not trying to "sell" any side, but if I send them $4000 and they illustrate my book and send me back the $4000, didn't I get it free?
I know, I know... IF the sales reach 5000 copies, we've been down that road...
GOD, why do I find myself back on this fence? I was so resolute against it.
A wash? I hardly think so. Do you think Tate will simply pass along the illustrator's cost to you? Of course not. They'll make a profit on it. They're a middleman and will charge you more than the illustrator charged them.

But the bottom line is really this: if your book is good enough to sell 5000 copies, then it's good enough for a commercial publisher to pick up.
 

Mr.H.

SO many books!!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 1, 2008
Messages
194
Reaction score
8
Location
Cold, Minnesota
Website
www.helpateacher.net
To be honest, I'm still reading a variety of advice from other threads as well, but I don't feel secure enough in any one direction to fully commit to it. Agents sound nice, but then again.... Lulu could work, but..... commercial publishing..... see?
I'm a mess.
 

jennontheisland

the world is at my command
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
7,278
Reaction score
2,137
Location
in the rain
If you've got $4K to invest in publishing one book, why not start an epub with a POD print option and publish more than one.
 

Calla Lily

On hiatus
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
39,309
Reaction score
17,513
Location
Non carborundum illegitimi
Website
www.aliceloweecey.net
To be honest, I'm still reading a variety of advice from other threads as well, but I don't feel secure enough in any one direction to fully commit to it. Agents sound nice, but then again.... Lulu could work, but..... commercial publishing..... see?
I'm a mess.

(If someone's already asked this upthread, I apologize.)

Mr. H, what's your book about? Why are you (as I see it) looking at agents and vanity pubs and self-pubbing like they're 3 equal choices?
 

Mr.H.

SO many books!!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 1, 2008
Messages
194
Reaction score
8
Location
Cold, Minnesota
Website
www.helpateacher.net
Here we go:

This book is written using primary shapes (rectangle, triangle, circle, square, etc…) in primary colors as the main characters. No cultural, racial, religious, socioeconomic, or physical differences are present, making this neutral cast of characters easy for young children to identify with on whatever level they choose to do so. In this story, the protagonist is a blue rectangle searching for a friend. His adventures start anew with each day of the week (“On Monday, the little rectangle… On Tuesday,... etc). As he encounters various other shapes and asks them what they “do”, the reader is led into a visual search for all occasions of the given shape in the illustration, as excerpted here:

The beautiful circle said, “Circles are everywhere. You can see us when you look at a penny, a plate, or a pancake. We can be small, like a button, or large, like a Ferris wheel. You can even see circles when a raindrop lands in the water. What do rectangles do?”

The little rectangle is continually referred to as a “stick,” which he begins to believe about himself until he comes upon a red octagon who points out all of the things a rectangle can “do”.

The little rectangle was surprised. “I am?” he asked. “What’s so special about me?”
“Well,” she said, “rectangles are everywhere you look. Where should I start? I see rectangles when I look at a truck, a table leg, or a toolbox. You can be small, like a ruler, or large, like a building.”


Finally, through persistence, the protagonist finds a friend and learns of his own value and place in his environment. This story contains literary conventions of assonance, resonance, consonance, repetition, pattern, predictability, and familiar rhythm. It reflects the forward linear movement of time by referring to each day of the week, and teaches the value of persistence in the face of adversity. In fact, “giving up” is mentioned and considered on Thursday in the story, as this is a very real “human” response to challenge.
The target audience for this book is young readers, emerging, challenged, reluctant, or struggling readers, and their parents and teachers. Many lessons can be derived from this work, and it can be used in classrooms across the country to teach or support the teaching of shapes, colors, days of the week, feelings, persistence, friendship, support, acceptance and teamwork. Future books with the same characters are planned that will follow this pattern and theme, each focusing on different topics such as jealousy, anger, sadness, fear, etc. There are many applications for these books, in both the regular education curriculum as well as with children of special needs, but it is primarily written to appeal to the general populace, as an introductory reader or as a bedtime story read by parents, or as a tool to be used as a topic starter for discussions with children struggling with problems similar to those of the characters in the story.
 

Calla Lily

On hiatus
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
39,309
Reaction score
17,513
Location
Non carborundum illegitimi
Website
www.aliceloweecey.net
Sounds marketable to me. Head over to agentquery and similar sites and find some agents that take children's books. Then post your query in SYW--there are lots of people who can help polish it. You can do it!
 

Mr.H.

SO many books!!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 1, 2008
Messages
194
Reaction score
8
Location
Cold, Minnesota
Website
www.helpateacher.net
Yup, I guess I have to face the fact that I am a noob. What is SYW? I'm still becoming familiar with the various acronyms and terms etc.

And thank you for your kind feedback. I truly appreciate that. :)
 

Toothpaste

THE RECKLESS RESCUE is out now!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 18, 2006
Messages
8,745
Reaction score
3,097
Location
Toronto, Canada
Website
www.adriennekress.com
To me this book sounds like it has wide appeal, not just for a niche market. Why are you limiting yourself by not even giving it a shot with publishers who could actually get it out there in the world? I think you are selling yourself a little short.

SYW = Share Your Work
 

ResearchGuy

Resident Curmudgeon
Requiescat In Pace
Registered
Joined
Mar 26, 2005
Messages
5,011
Reaction score
697
Location
Sacramento area, CA
Website
www.umbachconsulting.com
To me this book sounds like it has wide appeal, not just for a niche market. Why are you limiting yourself by not even giving it a shot with publishers who could actually get it out there in the world? I think you are selling yourself a little short. . . .
Maybe a lot short.

I'd second the recommendation to pursue real commercial publication as the first option, to exhaust that path first.

There are plenty of resources on how to write queries and book proposals, how to find agents and publishers (ones that accept unsolicited queries/proposals).

Mr.H. should take this to heart: "the value of persistence in the face of adversity." The core lesson of the useful book How I got Published (Writer's Digest Books, 2007) is persistence.

--Ken
 

AC Crispin

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
353
Reaction score
122
Location
Washington DC area
Website
www.accrispin.com
Mr. H, why are you making the assumption that Tate authors earn back the money they pay by selling 5000
copies?

Writer Beware asked Tate a couple of years ago to document how many of their authors had earned back the money they had paid by selling 5000 copies of their book. Tate did not provide us with a single title that had accomplished this.

If they've given you titles of their books that have achieved 5000 in sales, I'd be very interested in knowing what those titles are.

By the way, have you ever been to a bookstore, or a Christian bookstore, and looked for any Tate titles there? I have.

I didn't find any. Nobody I've ever heard from has found any.

That 5000 copies sold goal is something most vanity published authors haven't a hope of achieving.

-Ann C. Crispin
Chair, Writer Beware
www.writerbeware.com
 

ResearchGuy

Resident Curmudgeon
Requiescat In Pace
Registered
Joined
Mar 26, 2005
Messages
5,011
Reaction score
697
Location
Sacramento area, CA
Website
www.umbachconsulting.com
In my experience, selling 5000 copies of a book is not that unusual for members of SFWA. And RWA members sell even more, even first time romance authors.

-Ann C. Crispin
Your word on that is good with me.

My reference on the point is the assertion in two industry memoirs (one by a publisher and one by a bookseller) that the average first and only printing of a new commercially published book is 3,000 - 5,000 copies. (Many of them probably decent enough books that don't catch on with the public, given the competition for their time and money and selectivity of publishers' promotional efforts.) But sure, those who get into one of the popular genres with a successful publisher will do better -- esp. in mass market paperback editions, named mass market for a reason. (I'm told by a couple of authors that romance is THE leading genre.) One can aspire to such success.

None of that supports choosing a vanity or subsidy press for an author who is seeking a large audience. No reason to start by putting on a cement life vest.

IMHO.

--Ken