The book is pretty much written - now what?

Hathor · Oct 31, 2009

I am not quite sure if this is the right place to post my questions, but I'm taking my best shot. I don't want to annoy with cross-posts all over the place. The answers to my questions, or at least some of them, are probably somewhere already on AW. But there is so much here; when I start reading I'm finding things not quite exactly what I need to know ... I've limited my time on AW up to now (cutting it out completely for months), because that was the only way my book was going to get written. So ...

My third complete draft is now with betas. It is the time to actually figure out how to get published and then read. I've read a little on AW and so my betas are now folks who are blurb-worthy or can otherwise help.

But I don't know the next steps to take exactly.

In case my type of book is relevant to answering my questions: it is a combo of genres really (memoir, self-help, expose, public policy advocacy, and academic treatise). The fact that it defies categorization affects my questions. Specifically: my daughter began life with multiple developmental delays, especially with language, extremely low measured IQ, and disturbing "autistic-like" symptoms; we were told she would be incapable of independent living as an adult. She has ended up with no remaining problems, just graduated with honors from Brown, knows multiple languages, and has a full-ride to grad school at U Penn. My book discusses how she got from point A to point B, with analysis of evaluations and diagnoses, the good/bad/ugly of special education, how I ended up homeschooling due to the inadequacy of the regular curriculum, etc. It is the book I wish I could have had available to me.

My questions:

1. What are the most useful books out there on getting published and marketing one's book afterwards?

2. Should I try for an agent or directly approach publishers? My motivation for writing this book was to help people, so getting read more widely is more important to me than the money.

3. If I go the agent route:
a. Very few agents list themselves as covering books about education. I thought it might be useful to approach those who have represented authors for particular books I've cited prominently. They must know how to help shepherd these books along, and perhaps I could even get these bigger name authors to help me with blurbs. Is there any way of finding out who represents whom? I've checked the books themselves and there are no helpful dedications to agents or ways to directly contact the authors.

b. If I need to go beyond those listing "education" as a field they handle, what other fields would seem most appropriate to you?

c. To what extent will agents help with proposals to publishers, marketing plans, etc., or do I have to figure out all of this myself before approaching the agents?

4. If I go the publisher route:
a. For a book like mine, would a large or small publisher be best? Assuming I have a choice

Really, just figuring out who to approach first ...

b. Is there any way to vet publishers - who helps market, who pays promptly, etc.

c. One beta now (an expert and published author) volunteered the idea that he might be able to help me get published with his publisher. Do I jump on this opening and try to avoid the entire query/proposal experience? Or are there disadvantages in jumping on the first opportunity? I don't want to lose an opportunity either by dithering and saying, well, I want to look around first.

5. What are the best sources (books, websites, AW threads) for writing bookf queries and proposals that would be relevant to my sort of book? How do I compare mine to others' books and generate potential market numbers when I haven't seen any book really like mine? Rather, I've seen books that cover different little bits of what I cover, and some of what I cover I haven't seen available to a lay audience at all.

6. Do I need a website? When and how should I develop it? I'm really unknowledgeable about the technical and practical aspects of this. What should I put on any such site? I could respond to questions, discuss issues I didn't have space to explore in the book, mention updates to the law or academic literature in different areas, etc. Or I could have a simple "this book exists" site and save anything more for the sequel. Oh, my delusions of grandeur

Maybe I should ask what I wear on Oprah ...

7. Is there anything I'm leaving out that I should do?

Thanks

challenge64 · Oct 31, 2009

I'll try my best. I'm exactly in the same position. I have written a book and it's going to print next week. I've taken a different route and self publish, but have an exclusive distributor (they are also a publisher for others btw)

1 - Marketing. I will do alot. From literally banging on doors to cold calls. I've also set aside almost 300 copies to send out for reviews and for press.

2 - can't really help you more here. sorry.

4 - From my experience, go with a specialty publisher. One that specifically know exactly what you are talking about. I am going with the largest publisher/ distributor in my niche. Their sales team should know their stuff.

6 - Yes. I've had mine up for 6 months now. It is a private site that goes public soon. Should have pre-announcements as well as contact information.

underthecity · Oct 31, 2009

I'll answer what I can.

Hathor said:
In case my type of book is relevant to answering my questions: it is a combo of genres really (memoir, self-help, expose, public policy advocacy, and academic treatise). The fact that it defies categorization affects my questions.

That's also going to affect how you target your queries. Seriously, you need to narrow this down. This is like saying, "My book appeals to everybody!" What is the main focus of this book?

My book discusses how she got from point A to point B, with analysis of evaluations and diagnoses, the good/bad/ugly of special education, how I ended up homeschooling due to the inadequacy of the regular curriculum, etc. It is the book I wish I could have had available to me.

Not to sound antagonistic, but what is your platform? Are you an expert in this subject, that is, are you an educator? Psychologist? Doctor? Or is the only experience you have in this subject your daughter? If so, it could be a tough sell.

1. What are the most useful books out there on getting published and marketing one's book afterwards?

It's hard to say "Use this book only." I'd suggest visiting your library and browsing the writers' reference section. There are lots of books on this subject.

2. Should I try for an agent or directly approach publishers? My motivation for writing this book was to help people, so getting read more widely is more important to me than the money.

Money's not the issue. It might be your platform. Visit the bookstore and see what other titles are similar in scope to yours. Write down the titles, authors, and publishers. Research those publishers, see if they require agented submissions. You can also google the authors and ask them directly if they have agents. If so, ask them if they wouldn't mind telling you the agents' names.

To answer the question, I'd say go the agent route first.

3. If I go the agent route:
a. Very few agents list themselves as covering books about education. I thought it might be useful to approach those who have represented authors for particular books I've cited prominently. They must know how to help shepherd these books along, and perhaps I could even get these bigger name authors to help me with blurbs. Is there any way of finding out who represents whom? I've checked the books themselves and there are no helpful dedications to agents or ways to directly contact the authors.

See answer to number 2. You might have to look for agents who represent general nonfiction.

b. If I need to go beyond those listing "education" as a field they handle, what other fields would seem most appropriate to you?

Memoirs, maybe.

c. To what extent will agents help with proposals to publishers, marketing plans, etc., or do I have to figure out all of this myself before approaching the agents?

You write the proposal. The agent presents it to the publisher. Later, much later, the publisher handles marketing, etc.

4. If I go the publisher route:
a. For a book like mine, would a large or small publisher be best? Assuming I have a choice Really, just figuring out who to approach first ...

You always start at the top and work your way down.

b. Is there any way to vet publishers - who helps market, who pays promptly, etc.

See Preditors and Editors for cross-checking publishers. And AW's own Bewares and Background Check.

c. One beta now (an expert and published author) volunteered the idea that he might be able to help me get published with his publisher. Do I jump on this opening and try to avoid the entire query/proposal experience? Or are there disadvantages in jumping on the first opportunity? I don't want to lose an opportunity either by dithering and saying, well, I want to look around first.

With all due respect, never count on someone else who says they'll help you out. 99 times out of 100, it won't happen, despite what the person says. (Although you may get lucky, who knows?) Also, do your research and find out exactly what this publisher is. Could be Publishamerica, iUniverse, or some other vanity press.

5. What are the best sources (books, websites, AW threads) for writing bookf queries and proposals that would be relevant to my sort of book? How do I compare mine to others' books and generate potential market numbers when I haven't seen any book really like mine? Rather, I've seen books that cover different little bits of what I cover, and some of what I cover I haven't seen available to a lay audience at all.

There are books on how to write great proposals, and you can learn a lot from AW's own Query Letter Hell in the Share Your Work forum. Also, you can always google "how to write a book proposal" to see some posted online.

6. Do I need a website? When and how should I develop it? I'm really unknowledgeable about the technical and practical aspects of this. What should I put on any such site? I could respond to questions, discuss issues I didn't have space to explore in the book, mention updates to the law or academic literature in different areas, etc.

Yes yes and yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes. I would develop it after the book is sold. BUT, you can always try developing it now, because it can take a long time to fully develop a site.

7. Is there anything I'm leaving out that I should do?

Keep reading, researching, asking questions, studying your subject.

Hope that helps,

allen

byarvin · Nov 2, 2009

I'd like to take a stab at some of these questions if I could. These answers aren't meant to contradict anybody else. Just provide another perspective.

My questions:

1. What are the most useful books out there on getting published and marketing one's book afterwards?

By far and away, Writer's Market. Make sure you get a current edition with website access.

2. Should I try for an agent or directly approach publishers? My motivation for writing this book was to help people, so getting read more widely is more important to me than the money.

Try for an agent, but don't be discouraged if they don't bite! Watch out with the "more important than money" stuff though. Comments like that are magnets for scam artists.

3. If I go the agent route:

b. If I need to go beyond those listing "education" as a field they handle, what other fields would seem most appropriate to you?

It doesn't sound like an education book to me at all. Depending on how you write it, it could be in parenting or a memoir. I suspect if it really were education, you'd have introduced it as a "textbook for home schooling" or something similar.

c. To what extent will agents help with proposals to publishers, marketing plans, etc., or do I have to figure out all of this myself before approaching the agents?

They'll help a bit, but you'll have to do most of the work with the proposal. Marketing - except for a modest paragraph - comes much later.

4. If I go the publisher route:
a. For a book like mine, would a large or small publisher be best? Assuming I have a choice Really, just figuring out who to approach first ...

This won't be a choice you can make - whomever takes it.

c. One beta now (an expert and published author) volunteered the idea that he might be able to help me get published with his publisher. Do I jump on this opening and try to avoid the entire query/proposal experience? Or are there disadvantages in jumping on the first opportunity? I don't want to lose an opportunity either by dithering and saying, well, I want to look around first.

What happens in situations like this is that the publisher will say "That sounds great! Send me a proposal." You'll still have to write it, even if you have a great introduction. In that case, don't forget to mention the referral in the proposal.

I'd like to add a few more things. First, your book isn't finished until the editor says so. The odds of it selling without major rewriting are minuscule. The editors know this and aren't looking down on you. Instead, they want to add their own imprint and make sure that your book is consistent with other titles they're producing. This is part of the process.

And, whatever you do, make sure you don't come across as boasting about your child or the job you did as a parent. This tends to bring out the inner cynic that lies inside every editor.

Finally, what really counts more than anything else is actually doing it. Writing a proposal is always an enlightening experience and sending them out, even if there are no replies, always teaches you something.

Hathor · Nov 2, 2009

Thanks for the information, all.

Right now I have some people reading the book whose endorsements could help with marketing, and they mention others they want to send the book to. (Also vetting the content.) So we will have to see how that goes ... My thought is that if I went in with favorable blurbs from experts (including a couple that regularly communicate with my target audience), I might get at least an actual read (or a request for a proposal at least). I'm hoping I might get an intro written from one of them, too, but I'll have to see once they finish. (I'm getting a lot of, "Maybe you should send this book off to X, Y, and Z, too." So my querying may not be as soon as I had hoped.)

I figured if I just went in as simply some unknown mother, no one would pay attention. I'm not, say, Jenny McCarthy.

Yes, I know I wouldn't say, "Money is no object" to an agent or publisher. I was just making the point that, if my book might reach more people with an agent's work, I wouldn't mind paying the commission.

(On another point, one reason I have people reading me now is so that I know that the tone doesn't turn off readers; I'm not trying to brag, just trying to tell people what I learned and experienced. I've had lots of people ask me, but it is impossible to summarize quickly. It takes a book.
Edit: I try to mention all the mistakes I made too ...)

Please don't mention rewrites, even though I know this will happen! I've been polishing for months now in response to comments. The book is better; I'm just wondering when the process will ever be completed. Oh, how does anyone write more than one book

Perhaps publication (other than self-publication) is a long shot, but that is probably true for the first book of many people. But they get written anyway. I just have to stay positive and do the best I can in writing mine and promoting it. What will be, will be.

Again, thanks for taking the time to give me your thoughts.

suki · Nov 2, 2009

You've already received some advice from others more knowledgable than me on non-fiction/memoir.

But I can help with a few questions:

3. If I go the agent route:
a. Very few agents list themselves as covering books about education.

I'd look for agents representing memoir, self-help and/or non-fiction, depending on what you think your book primarily is. And nothing says you can't try agents who list each of these areas of interest.

I thought it might be useful to approach those who have represented authors for particular books I've cited prominently... Is there any way of finding out who represents whom? I've checked the books themselves and there are no helpful dedications to agents or ways to directly contact the authors.

On www.querytracker.com you can search for agents by area, but you can also search by looking up the client's name. So, find books similar to your book in approach or theme, and then look up the writer and see who represents them.

You can also google the writer's name followed by "is represented by..." and you will pull up anywhere on line where it says who the writer is represented by.

They must know how to help shepherd these books along, and perhaps I could even get these bigger name authors to help me with blurbs.

You're getting ahead of yourself here - focus first on drafting a query and querying agents or editors, depending on which route you choose to go. BUT, if you are going to try to find an agent, it is best not to query editors at the same time because then any editor you query, your agent would not be able to pitch the book to. So, if you are going to try to find an agent, focus on that step first by researching where your book fist in the market (ie, is is memoir or self-help or non-ficition or what), researching agents who represent your genre, and then drafting a query.

b. If I need to go beyond those listing "education" as a field they handle, what other fields would seem most appropriate to you?

I think if you are looking for an agent, it won't be a field - it will be a genre - and my guess is self-help or memoir, depending on whether your book is primarily meant to guide readers through similar situations or show them what is possible through showing them your story.

c. To what extent will agents help with proposals to publishers, marketing plans, etc., or do I have to figure out all of this myself before approaching the agents?

If you sign with an agent, they will then pitch your book to publishers for you (though they will expect you to help draft the proposal information in some instances).

Marketing plans would be the province of the publisher, if you go with a large trade publisher.

Otherwise you will be marketing yourself (and even if you do land with a large trade publisher, you will likely still be doing a lot of your own marketing). And for that, the agent is not involved usually - usually you are on your own or you hire a marketing consultant.

5. What are the best sources (books, websites, AW threads) for writing bookf queries and proposals that would be relevant to my sort of book?
How do I compare mine to others' books and generate potential market numbers when I haven't seen any book really like mine? Rather, I've seen books that cover different little bits of what I cover, and some of what I cover I haven't seen available to a lay audience at all.

First, you at least skim every book at all similar you can find that has been published in the last 5 years. get an idea of what is already out there and where your book fits.

Then, there are lost of online resources to reserach queries - but I'd start here on AW in: (1) the memoirs forum; and (2) in the Query letter hell (QLH) forum over in Share Your Work (SYW).

In QLH there are a bunch of sticky threads stuck at the top of the forum, including a bunch on writing queries and a whole thread of successful queries. Now, most will be for fiction, but there are some resources and successful queries for non-fiction. And if you eventually decide your book is a memoir more than a self-help, then the query will be closer to a fiction query anyway, except focusing more on you and your platform.

6. Do I need a website? When and how should I develop it? I'm really unknowledgeable about the technical and practical aspects of this. What should I put on any such site? I could respond to questions, discuss issues I didn't have space to explore in the book, mention updates to the law or academic literature in different areas, etc. Or I could have a simple "this book exists" site and save anything more for the sequel. Oh, my delusions of grandeur Maybe I should ask what I wear on Oprah ...

If you are going to try to sell a memoir/self-help book then you will need a platform, and a website/blog would be a good step. BUT, only if you are going to make it professional and active.

Just throwing up a page or throwing something up that has nothing to do with your book could actually do more harm than good - ie, you'd look like you don't know how to market yourself or have no following.

So, read up in the memoirs forum and chat with the folks there. And research what agents who rep nonfiction/memoirs say on the subject.

And if you decide to put up a site/blog, there are easy to learn formats out there or you can hire someone. But really google around and read what agents have to say on the issue and look at other memoir writers' blogs/websites for ideas before you start so you are sure you know what direction your site/blog should take and what time commitment/money you are making.

good luck.

~suki

Kitty Pryde · Nov 2, 2009

Hathor said:
5. What are the best sources (books, websites, AW threads) for writing bookf queries and proposals that would be relevant to my sort of book? How do I compare mine to others' books and generate potential market numbers when I haven't seen any book really like mine? Rather, I've seen books that cover different little bits of what I cover, and some of what I cover I haven't seen available to a lay audience at all.

Your books sounds a lot like Maverick Mind by Cheri Florance. I believe it has all the same aspects you mentioned your book is about. The author is a speech-language path whose kid had a similar journey to yours. Have you checked that book out? Temple Grandin's books are similar too--but a first-hand journey rather than a second-hand one.

Hathor · Nov 2, 2009

Good info, suki. However, you say

suki said:
You're getting ahead of yourself here - focus first on drafting a query and querying agents or editors, depending on which route you choose to go. BUT, if you are going to try to find an agent, it is best not to query editors at the same time because then any editor you query, your agent would not be able to pitch the book to. So, if you are going to try to find an agent, focus on that step first by researching where your book fist in the market (ie, is is memoir or self-help or non-ficition or what), researching agents who represent your genre, and then drafting a query.

I thought I'd read somewhere that attaching a few blurbs can help a query and/or book proposal get noticed. Particularly if the blurbs help establish a platform or are from experts saying that the nonexpert writer is right/has written a useful book/etc.? So far I just have a few ideas jotted down for some areas of the proposal; it still needs work. I've done nothing on the query yet. I thought I would ask here where I should go for more research. (And now you've told me -- thanks :Hug2:

)
Kitty -- thanks for the books (that I can readily distinguish now I've looked at them

)

I know that a big part of my problem is explaining my book to show it is different and doing so in a concise way. Not, my book is not like book 1, because of X, Y, and Z; my book is like book 2 in covering this subject, but I do so in a different way and I go into all these other things too; etc., etc.

I guess I have to stop whimpering now about how hard it is and start looking at some successful queries and proposals...

suki · Nov 2, 2009

Hathor said:
I thought I'd read somewhere that attaching a few blurbs can help a query and/or book proposal get noticed. Particularly if the blurbs help establish a platform or are from experts saying that the nonexpert writer is right/has written a useful book/etc.? So far I just have a few ideas jotted down for some areas of the proposal; it still needs work. I've done nothing on the query yet. I thought I would ask here where I should go for more research. (And now you've told me -- thanks )

I read your post as wondering about blurbs for the eventual cover of the book. That's why I said I thought you were getting ahead of yourself.

But if you mean as part of your pitch, then you'll have to research more whether blurbs as part of your pitch to agents might help - I've never heard that, but I write fiction and so am less experienced with memoir/nonfiction.

So, again, research what nonfiction/memoir agents say about the benefit of blurbs in your pitch and/or ask the question in the memoir or nonfiction forums. But here's my thinking on it:

1. It might be more helpful if you pitch this as nonfiction or self-help. But if you pitch this as memoir, I'm skeptical that blurbs will help.

2. From all I've read, it would need to be a hell of a blurb to really help. So, research further how helpful they might be.

Hathor said:
I guess I have to stop whimpering now about how hard it is and start looking at some successful queries and proposals...

Yup, research is your friend. The kind folks who frequent the Memoir or the nonfiction forums might be more helpful with areas of research.

And then head on over to SYW to read up on queries (if it is memoir).

good luck.

~suki

Hathor · Nov 2, 2009

suki said:
The kind folks in Memoir or the nonfiction forums might also be helpful. And head on over to SYW to read up on queries.

Uh, this is the nonfiction forum

Actually, thinking about it, if I were to pick one genre to say my book is, it wouldn't be memoir. I have too much advice, information and research (and lots of footnotes ...)

I'll have to look up where I read about the blurb/endorsement/intro thing. I don't think I'm imagining it. I think it was in a thread on this nonfiction board ... and maybe some site discussing nonfiction book proposals. It was about blurbs/endorsements/intros from acknowledged experts as helping to confer credibility on a book. I don't think this is the sort of thing I would make up.

Of course, reading something somewhere doesn't make it right. I'll pin it all down before I actually do anything stupid (or I hope so

).

the addster · Nov 2, 2009

About the blurbs, I have read that it's good to list folks that you could get a blurb from in your proposal. I've never seen anything about them being used in a query.

Thrillride · Nov 2, 2009

Hathor said:
Uh, this is the nonfiction forum

Actually, thinking about it, if I were to pick one genre to say my book is, it wouldn't be memoir. I have too much advice, information and research (and lots of footnotes ...)

I'll have to look up where I read about the blurb/endorsement/intro thing. I don't think I'm imagining it. I think it was in a thread on this nonfiction board ... and maybe some site discussing nonfiction book proposals. It was about blurbs/endorsements/intros from acknowledged experts as helping to confer credibility on a book. I don't think this is the sort of thing I would make up.

Of course, reading something somewhere doesn't make it right. I'll pin it all down before I actually do anything stupid (or I hope so ).

Honestly, the blurbs really are getting a bit ahead of yourself in a query. The pub houses (editors) are interested in seeing what you have to offer as far as writing for now. The blurbs are important much later in the process. If you have good endorsements, it's great to mention it in the proposal once they are interested in the mss. But blurbs won't matter with the agents - the mss will.

Also, I'd go for the agent first for sure. They go to bat for you in every way, they understand the contracts and they have an "in" with the pub houses that'll only look at represented work. There are certainly houses that'll look at unsolicited work, however, the pool is much larger with an agent.

Autodidact · Nov 2, 2009

The wonderful thing about writers is that they write, so there are many books about writing book proposals, getting published, even getting serious non-fiction published. Right now I'm reading Thinking Like Your Editor, Fortunato and
Rabiner. I think you'll find it useful. Also How to Sell, then Write, Your Non-Fiction Book by Blythe Camenson, Write the Perfect Book Proposal, J. and D. Herman. There are a lot of these books out there.

Hathor · Nov 3, 2009

Autodidact said:
The wonderful thing about writers is that they write, so there are many books about writing book proposals, getting published, even getting serious non-fiction published. Right now I'm reading Thinking Like Your Editor, Fortunato and
Rabiner. I think you'll find it useful. Also How to Sell, then Write, Your Non-Fiction Book by Blythe Camenson, Write the Perfect Book Proposal, J. and D. Herman. There are a lot of these books out there.

Yes, there are. That's why I wondered if there were books that people particularly liked

I was reading reviews on Amazon for one that I've seen mentioned on agent sites. A few writers loved it, but others thought it was useless (it being better for those who have wonderful platforms and just have to be told to explain them: "mention your previous publications, mention the conferences at which you lecture, mention your radio shows, etc." Yeah, I wish.)

Maybe I will have to buy a number of them and judge for myself? I suppose I don't have to try to find the one best possible book. I could go browse in the book store perhaps -- only whenever I do that, I end up with 10 books or something. I really have no control. I even love the smell of new books ...

Getting back to blurbs, the education professor who just finished my book said he would write an intro. Woo hoo! There are some really nice people out there. He has his own writing projects and yet he took the time to read my book in a few days. (Then again, I sought out the expert most likely to agree with me on the major issues

)

As you folks have said, I need to explore queries. I think all my reading thus far has been on proposals, which may be why my original questions were not as informed as they could have been. But that is how we learn, huh -- asking questions?

byarvin · Nov 3, 2009

Proposal Time

Hathor:

It still sounds to me like you're doing things out of sequence and that this is going to make life difficult for you in the end. I suggest you just set your manuscript aside for a moment and get to work on the proposal.

In my experience, the act of proposal writing has revealed too much of what was missing or wrong in my original ideas. And the submission process took care of the rest.

As for these introductions and blurbs - you don't want them yet - just the offer to write them. In the publicity section of your proposal, just say "X has offered to write the introduction" and that should be enough. Remember, if that person writes it and then the book is either not published or substantially re-written, you're the one who looks bad.

Autodidact · Nov 3, 2009

Hathor said:
Yes, there are. That's why I wondered if there were books that people particularly liked I was reading reviews on Amazon for one that I've seen mentioned on agent sites. A few writers loved it, but others thought it was useless (it being better for those who have wonderful platforms and just have to be told to explain them: "mention your previous publications, mention the conferences at which you lecture, mention your radio shows, etc." Yeah, I wish.)

Maybe I will have to buy a number of them and judge for myself? I suppose I don't have to try to find the one best possible book. I could go browse in the book store perhaps -- only whenever I do that, I end up with 10 books or something. I really have no control. I even love the smell of new books ...

Getting back to blurbs, the education professor who just finished my book said he would write an intro. Woo hoo! There are some really nice people out there. He has his own writing projects and yet he took the time to read my book in a few days. (Then again, I sought out the expert most likely to agree with me on the major issues )

As you folks have said, I need to explore queries. I think all my reading thus far has been on proposals, which may be why my original questions were not as informed as they could have been. But that is how we learn, huh -- asking questions?

Buy, schmy, that's what the library's for.

Hathor · Nov 3, 2009

Autodidact said:
Buy, schmy, that's what the library's for.

But I'm a biblioholic. I want to own the things, fill up my bookcases, get new bookcases ...

Hathor · Nov 4, 2009

Do not be confused by the draft number. This number reflects the number of times I've rewritten all I could and finally sent my book out to different groups of beta readers. I have been rewriting for many months now. Actually, I've been continually rewriting previous work since I began drafting in June, 2008.

With all due respect, I know my work better than all of you, how polished it is and what genre(s) it might be said to be in. OK, folks? :Hug2:

I've had draft ideas for my book proposal since summer of last year. My work was planned. Again, I am not an idiot

This is one of the places I read about "endorsements" and "what people say..." as optional parts of a nonfiction book proposal http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22176 So I am not making this up. I won't submit anything without a great deal of research. My posting here is part of this research.

As I said, I have an expert to write a forward now, not a blurb. I may have more (since I discuss more than one field).

I appreciate any and all advice on writing queries and book proposals. But it seems to me that this thread has at times taken on the aspect of attacking the basic premise and format of my book. I didn't ask about that. I think the book works. Those who have read the book think it works. If I want opinions on my book, I will ask (and will first explain in much more detail what it is like). I am not mad, just a little exasperated right now. I know you all mean well, but I didn't really expect this sort of response. Can't we all be friends and supportive of one another?

Any more negativity and I think I will simply give up on this thread altogether ...

underthecity · Nov 4, 2009

Hathor said:
With all due respect, I know my work better than all of you, how polished it is and what genre(s) it might be said to be in.

I understand that you know your work better than any of us. None of us have read it. However in the first post you say this about its genre:

it is a combo of genres really (memoir, self-help, expose, public policy advocacy, and academic treatise).

That's a lot of genres. That'd be like trying to pitch a novel and saying it's a combination of ghost story, thriller, romance, suspense, biography, historical, and comedy. Pick the one genre that your book best fits in.

But it seems to me that this thread has at times taken on the aspect of attacking the basic premise and format of my book. I didn't ask about that. I think the book works. Those who have read the book think it works.

Not sure if I'm included in this statement or not, but I'm unsure that anyone on this thread has "attacked" the basic premise and format of your book. In fact, I asked a few questions to get more information, but I haven't seen any answers posted yet.

If you want an agent, you must narrow down the genre. To me, the subject seems to be memoir, which could work, I think. But then memoirs are a tough sell. Yours sounds like it goes beyond a memoir, though. So, as I suggested before, you need to visit the bookstore and see what other books are similar to yours.

I know you all mean well, but I didn't really expect this sort of response. Can't we all be friends and supportive of one another?

I can sit here and tell you how terrific you are and how wonderful your book is (without having read it), or I can spend some time out of a busy day and answer your questions with a semi-educated background. I'll support you 100% on your quest to a. finish your book, b. write your proposal, and c. search for a agent. I'll also respect you as a fellow writer. My respect will grow once you've landed your agent and had your book published.

Any more negativity and I think I will simply give up on this thread altogether.

If I was negative, then I apologize. But if you're going to leave, then you'll be making a mistake.

suki · Nov 4, 2009

hathor, you've had a lot of advice in this thread about seeking out the competition to better know the market, better defining your genre, and then starting to think about your proposal or query.

It sounds like you have some research and reading to do before you are ready to seek an agent - primarily to define your genre and check your market.

But once you have done that, then you need to start working on your proposal (if it is a non-fiction or self-help book) or your query (if it is a memoir - and I understand you currently think it's not a memoir, but I am leaving that as an option for now, because if you decide it is a memoir later, then you need a query more like a novel than a non-ficition proposal).

So, once you have defined your genre, researched the market more and know where your book fits (including competing titles), then you are ready to start researching agents and preparing your proposal or query.

You can research agents on querytracker (as I suggested in an earlier post), agentquery.com, and here in the beware and background check forum.

If you decide it is a memoir, then head over to query letter hell in the Share Your Work forum and read the sticky threads on drafting queries.

But if you decide it's not a memoir, then I suggest starting with the following thread on non-fiction proposals as you research what a non-fiction proposal will require: http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22176

And I know you are frustrated, but when you post questions seeking info here, you should be prepared for people to comment on issues other than those you specifically ask about. If you spend any time around here you will see lots of threads started by people who need information other than what they specifically asked for - so, we may be a bit quick to point out issues we see beyond what is specifically asked. If you don't care to see those comments, scroll past. But considering people are taking time out of their own lives and projects to try to help you, being thankful is generally a better move than grumbling about some of the comments.

Good luck with your project.

~suki

Hathor · Nov 4, 2009

OK, another reason I'm frustrated is that Absolute Write keeps on logging me out and not wanting to log me back in. Not my day apparently ...

I have researched. I will do more and I have said I will do more. Why can't people take me at my word?

I was asked for more of a description of my book. So here goes:

I tell the story of my daughter's developmental problems, how it affected us, the assorted fights we went through to get her the help she needed, how the school system failed us, and how I homeschooled her effectively. In that sense, memoir.

I also work in rather comprehensive information about special education law, parent advocacy, how to research particular special needs and therapies, and cope with obstreperous school systems. I also discuss how we homeschooled. In that sense, self-help.

I discuss the many problems we faced with the special education system, including failure to comply with the law or my daughter's IEP, refusal to remediate her problems, evasiveness, stonewalling, lies, etc. and cite evidence that the problems we faced are common in school systems nationwide. In that sense, expose.

I discuss the issues of inclusion and constructivism, looking at the academic research as to whether they are best for all children. I also argue for changes in a number of aspects of education, such as the standard for reviewing for the presence of FAPE, the writing of IEPs, who has the burden of proof on appeal, etc., etc.. In that sense, public policy advocacy.

I discuss the definitions of autism and PDD, learning disability, and language-impairment, and the evidence supporting (or not) various therapies such as ABA, SI, speech therapy, etc, as well as IQ and how its measurement can be affected by language difficulties. In that sense, straight nonfiction in the sense of giving information.

I work the general information in during the course of telling my daughter's story. No one aspect of my book really predominates. I think the structure holds together and so far those who've read it agree. Of course, the proof is whether I get published. (BTW the editor to whom my expert wanted to put in a good word about me is a small press and most assuredly not a vanity one. Assuming that also seemed like a putdown.)

In the book, I have lots of legal analysis and lots of citation and quotation of medical and educational authorities. It seems strange to couch what I've done as simply self-help, particularly when the advocacy aspects are extremely strong in the book. I wrote the book to try to change things, not simply to tell the tale of my family.

I reacted the way I did because I was asked, "Are you an expert?" I was repeatedly dismissed by the local school system and told "research shows" that model X was best for all children -- even though my daughter got A's in model Y and was happy in it, but in model X she was getting D's and was terribly unhappy. The school system response was to repeat research shows, research shows, we're the experts ... and to simply change my daughter's grades upwards. Hey, problem solved. (The research does not show what they said, but that probably goes without saying.) They wouldn't teach her, so I did. So you see, being described as just a parent and therefore not an "expert" who can express anything that anyone else would want to read really pushes my buttons, OK?

I'm an expert about my daughter at the very least.

I've done extensive research on all the issues I raise. (I'm a lawyer by training, so I can research.) I am vetting my book with a professor of education (he is the one writing my forward), a pediatric neuropsychiatrist (for the evaluation issues; also my sister, a former school psychologist has reviewed my draft), and more than one parent advocate or attorney practicing special education law. I also have the local education reporter reviewing my book, since many of the issues I discuss he has looked into.

Besides being just a mother, I have years of experience as an activist in trying to improve local special education, albeit getting nowhere.

I hope this gives a better sense of my book. I have looked at what other books touch on what I cover. My daughter was in special education for 11 years; I was constantly reading this book and that. I've looked in the bookstore and the library before, and I will do so again as I write my book proposal. I haven't yet seen anything quite like my book and none of my readers have either. What we see are books on different parts of what I get into (this particular disability or that one [although my daughter's labeling kept changing and she defied categorization], special education law, how to advocate for your child, homeschooling, works on inclusion designed for educators, etc.) Then there are a few areas where there is no lay discussion of the issues from my point of view at all (at least I've yet to find them, I haven't finished looking), such as a comprehensive negative analysis of full inclusion (legally, economically, educationally, and philosophically) or the lack of evidence for sensory integration therapy for other than sensory issues.

What I've done is written the book that I wish had been available to me as a special needs parent. I've had any number of other parents tell me I should tell my story, including all the analytical stuff. Maybe that makes it more self-help than anything, but it doesn't really read like any self-help book I've seen. But if it makes people here happy, let's call it self-help

I guess when I get in the process of research further I may see the need to go to an agent and say explicitly, "My book is genre X." I don't see right now why I can't simply go in and say I have written this book, and describe it. If an agent covers all the types of books my book might be said to be in certain respects, I don't see the problem. Do they have a checklist or something where you have to tell them your book is all in one category? It would seem this would stifle creativity.

Now obviously, I need a less scattershot description of my book than I've presented above. I was just explaining the way it might be said to be like different genres. I realize this. Let me repeat. I know I need a pithier and quicker way of describing my book and I'm working on it. Although not right now as I'm talking to you all ...

I don't ask for anybody's opinion of something they haven't read, much less their rave reviews. I am not asking that people tell me I will get published. How would you know? I was just tired of hearing how I couldn't sell my book as just a parent, that I had somehow gotten the process wrong in writing my book, that I haven't rewritten and polished my book enough to even consider shopping it yet, that I haven't looked at competing books or done my research, that my idea of getting endorsements was cockeyed (when it wasn't my idea, but something I read on AW). (Just look back over all the posts. I don't see anyone holding out the possibility that I might, just possibly, be somehow competent. Maybe you can't tell. But why assume I'm not). Whether I sell my book or not, I have been doing my homework on the subjects I address, what type of other works exist (of necessity due to all my research on the subjects I address), how one should go about selling the book in general, etc.

Everyone here has given me helpful information and for that I am grateful. I have told people that publicly and privately. I just finally felt I had to get the frustration I was feeling off my chest. I may be just a parent, but that doesn't mean I can't research, write, or have something useful to say. Years of disrespect can do that to a person.

I hope that's enough of that. I have already said I am going to do the things people recommend. I don't know why the same recommendations have been repeated again and again. I get it, OK

Now hugs all around :Hug2:

Edit Addition: One post I lost described how last year I did write down ideas for my book proposal, looked at other books, and analyzed the market a bit. I just haven't polished a book proposal and pulled it all together yet because I had to see where the book ended up. I might have had to cut certain elements, for instance, if the book ran too long, or some new book might come out. I didn't just sit down one day to write a book without planning the process.

Autodidact · Nov 4, 2009

Hathor said:
OK, another reason I'm frustrated is that Absolute Write keeps on logging me out and not wanting to log me back in. Not my day apparently ...

I have researched. I will do more and I have said I will do more. Why can't people take me at my word?

I was asked for more of a description of my book. So here goes:

I tell the story of my daughter's developmental problems, how it affected us, the assorted fights we went through to get her the help she needed, how the school system failed us, and how I homeschooled her effectively. In that sense, memoir.

I also work in rather comprehensive information about special education law, parent advocacy, how to research particular special needs and therapies, and cope with obstreperous school systems. I also discuss how we homeschooled. In that sense, self-help.

I discuss the many problems we faced with the special education system, including failure to comply with the law or my daughter's IEP, refusal to remediate her problems, evasiveness, stonewalling, lies, etc. and cite evidence that the problems we faced are common in school systems nationwide. In that sense, expose.

I discuss the issues of inclusion and constructivism, looking at the academic research as to whether they are best for all children. I also argue for changes in a number of aspects of education, such as the standard for reviewing for the presence of FAPE, the writing of IEPs, who has the burden of proof on appeal, etc., etc.. In that sense, public policy advocacy.

I discuss the definitions of autism and PDD, learning disability, and language-impairment, and the evidence supporting (or not) various therapies such as ABA, SI, speech therapy, etc, as well as IQ and how its measurement can be affected by language difficulties. In that sense, straight nonfiction in the sense of giving information.

I work the general information in during the course of telling my daughter's story. No one aspect of my book really predominates. I think the structure holds together and so far those who've read it agree. Of course, the proof is whether I get published. (BTW the editor to whom my expert wanted to put in a good word about me is a small press and most assuredly not a vanity one. Assuming that also seemed like a putdown.)

In the book, I have lots of legal analysis and lots of citation and quotation of medical and educational authorities. It seems strange to couch what I've done as simply self-help, particularly when the advocacy aspects are extremely strong in the book. I wrote the book to try to change things, not simply to tell the tale of my family.

I reacted the way I did because I was asked, "Are you an expert?" I was repeatedly dismissed by the local school system and told "research shows" that model X was best for all children -- even though my daughter got A's in model Y and was happy in it, but in model X she was getting D's and was terribly unhappy. The school system response was to repeat research shows, research shows, we're the experts ... and to simply change my daughter's grades upwards. Hey, problem solved. (The research does not show what they said, but that probably goes without saying.) They wouldn't teach her, so I did. So you see, being described as just a parent and therefore not an "expert" who can express anything that anyone else would want to read really pushes my buttons, OK? I'm an expert about my daughter at the very least.

I've done extensive research on all the issues I raise. (I'm a lawyer by training, so I can research.) I am vetting my book with a professor of education (he is the one writing my forward), a pediatric neuropsychiatrist (for the evaluation issues; also my sister, a former school psychologist has reviewed my draft), and more than one parent advocate or attorney practicing special education law. I also have the local education reporter reviewing my book, since many of the issues I discuss he has looked into.

Besides being just a mother, I have years of experience as an activist in trying to improve local special education, albeit getting nowhere.

I hope this gives a better sense of my book. I have looked at what other books touch on what I cover. My daughter was in special education for 11 years; I was constantly reading this book and that. I've looked in the bookstore and the library before, and I will do so again as I write my book proposal. I haven't yet seen anything quite like my book and none of my readers have either. What we see are books on different parts of what I get into (this particular disability or that one [although my daughter's labeling kept changing and she defied categorization], special education law, how to advocate for your child, homeschooling, works on inclusion designed for educators, etc.) Then there are a few areas where there is no lay discussion of the issues from my point of view at all (at least I've yet to find them, I haven't finished looking), such as a comprehensive negative analysis of full inclusion (legally, economically, educationally, and philosophically) or the lack of evidence for sensory integration therapy for other than sensory issues.

What I've done is written the book that I wish had been available to me as a special needs parent. I've had any number of other parents tell me I should tell my story, including all the analytical stuff. Maybe that makes it more self-help than anything, but it doesn't really read like any self-help book I've seen. But if it makes people here happy, let's call it self-help

I guess when I get in the process of research further I may see the need to go to an agent and say explicitly, "My book is genre X." I don't see right now why I can't simply go in and say I have written this book, and describe it. If an agent covers all the types of books my book might be said to be in certain respects, I don't see the problem. Do they have a checklist or something where you have to tell them your book is all in one category? It would seem this would stifle creativity.

Now obviously, I need a less scattershot description of my book than I've presented above. I was just explaining the way it might be said to be like different genres. I realize this. Let me repeat. I know I need a pithier and quicker way of describing my book and I'm working on it. Although not right now as I'm talking to you all ...

I don't ask for anybody's opinion of something they haven't read, much less their rave reviews. I am not asking that people tell me I will get published. How would you know? I was just tired of hearing how I couldn't sell my book as just a parent, that I had somehow gotten the process wrong in writing my book, that I haven't rewritten and polished my book enough to even consider shopping it yet, that I haven't looked at competing books or done my research, that my idea of getting endorsements was cockeyed (when it wasn't my idea, but something I read on AW). (Just look back over all the posts. I don't see anyone holding out the possibility that I might, just possibly, be somehow competent. Maybe you can't tell. But why assume I'm not). Whether I sell my book or not, I have been doing my homework on the subjects I address, what type of other works exist (of necessity due to all my research on the subjects I address), how one should go about selling the book in general, etc.

Everyone here has given me helpful information and for that I am grateful. I have told people that publicly and privately. I just finally felt I had to get the frustration I was feeling off my chest. I may be just a parent, but that doesn't mean I can't research, write, or have something useful to say. Years of disrespect can do that to a person.

I hope that's enough of that. I have already said I am going to do the things people recommend. I don't know why the same recommendations have been repeated again and again. I get it, OK

Now hugs all around

Edit Addition: One post I lost described how last year I did write down ideas for my book proposal, looked at other books, and analyzed the market a bit. I just haven't polished a book proposal and pulled it all together yet because I had to see where the book ended up. I might have had to cut certain elements, for instance, if the book ran too long, or some new book might come out. I didn't just sit down one day to write a book without planning the process.

I think it sounds marketable pretty much as you describe. The only thing I would emphasize is that the purpose of the "your story" part should be as a frame or format to introduce the information other parents need. A "How I...and you can too..." So it's not really that all over the map. It's a book about being a parent of a developmentally delayed child and how to help your child, told by a parent in the course of her own story. I encourage you to pursue this project.

The reason I mentioned some of these books is that I thought they really laid out what you have to do with your proposal, then tackle query hell and have the proposal ready to go when you send out the queries. Fishing for blurbs I guess is a constant thing, whenever you run into anyone helpful.

I feel confident your book will be published one day--there is definitely a market for it.

Hathor · Nov 4, 2009

Thank you so much. That is wonderful to hear.

I guess I get worked up, folks, because I feel so strongly about this project. It may seem corny, but I really do want to help other children. There is SO much wasted human potential out there, and it is so very sad. Very few people are interested in special education and those children get marginalized and thought of as, well, those who will be a burden to society. But my daughter, through luck and determination, managed to get the proper intervention and accomplished way more than anyone ever thought she could.

I've told my story to other parents and they have literally cried. I want to share that.

My hope was that my daughter's story is interesting enough that it would be a hook to get people to read and think about the other issues. For instance, less than 10% of autistic children get proper early intervention. Early intervention can have a remarkable effect, not for all, but for many. The cost is high, but in the long run it saves money. But most school systems won't do the scientifically-based intervention and look instead at their short-run economic interest. The law so far has largely supported them. My daughter got the therapy by sheer luck, since she was not officially autistic. She had no language, had perseverative behavior, and showed enough violence when they tried to work with her in the regular special ed preschool program that the only program that would take her the following year was the autism program. (Plus they had a slot to fill for their federally-funded pilot and no girls in the program yet.) Today, a child like her would not get this therapy and all her potential would have been wasted. She would probably be in that group home I was told she would end up in as an adult, rather than in U. Penn. grad school.

Then there was the way they told us in 6th grade that, well, her special ed coding is now suddenly ... learning disability in the area of written language. The reason she couldn't write well wasn't because she wasn't taught to write or given lots of writing assignments, but because she had an "executive functioning" disability. Proof? She scored very low in this one subtest of the Wechsler III. The subtest? It involved doing jigsaw puzzles. She did them slowly and they told her to her face she was learning disabled. (I taught her using a homeschool writing program I had researched and since then, she has gotten top grades in writing in college.)

Oh, I've got a million of them

Well, maybe not that many. But enough is enough ...

OK, I'll get off my soapbox. I just wanted to tell you how strongly I feel about telling our story, the entire story, what happened yes, but the larger implications. I may not get published. If I do, the book may change nothing. I just feel like I have to try. I don't want to change the book to something else. What I cover is important to me to cover.

Maybe some publisher will want me to shorten some sections or put them in appendices. Maybe I will have to cut out sections and put those instead on a website. Maybe I will have to self-publish. But I have to try at least, and not give up at the outset.

Thanks to all for the advice you all have given. I may be prickly about certain things, but I still am appreciative.

helga · Nov 5, 2009

Hi, Hathor

Just to give you thumbs up!
I’m sure there is a market for your book and I hope you’ll find a publisher very soon. Many parents have written wonderful books, quite a few of them are bestsellers.
Each story is different, and yours sounds really interesting.

And I can understand your dilemma – to define the genre of your book as it is a combination of different genres. I don’t think it’ll be a problem. My book, for example, can be defines as a memoir (as all the anecdotes are from real life and experience with my autistic son), as a self-help, as there is advice - how to help autistic children in different situations, and it’s research-based as it explains sensory perception issues, language and communication development, emotional problems, thinking and memory, challenging behaviour, etc.
Oh, and there is a tiny fictional element in it as well – the story is told by Family Cat [the cat is real, though!

) ]

Good luck to you. I’ll keep my fingers cross, and ask Dasha to keep her paws in the right position ;o)
Keep us posted.

Hathor · Nov 5, 2009

Thanks Helga. Your book sounds interesting, an imaginative way to have your book be different. One of the dangerous things about AW is that I hear of all sorts of books I want to read! And what of the unread stacks at home ...?

Have you ever read "The Incident of the Curious Dog in the Nighttime"? It is written from the point of view, and voice, of someone with autism. The author had worked with autistic children, I believe. You see how someone with autism thinks in the course of following the story being told.

There is also someone on this board that has written a book about his life with Asperger's. Yet another book I want to read ...

As you know, parents of special needs children listen to other parents. Often they are are best source of unbiased information or, at least, good leads in the search for such information. Part of my book is explaining how one finds reliable information, since I obviously can't describe every special need out there or every approach that may come down the pike. Just for autism alone there are probably scores being advocated.

If I do find success, it will probably be if I find an agent and then a publisher with a special needs child. Then they will understand

I hope to go to the library tomorrow and comprehensively check out what books are around. The nearest one has the dedicated special needs library in it so it should be very comprehensive, more than any bookstore (although I should do that too so I can see what is currently being sold, or offered for sale anyway). I remember first starting out when my kids were little (both had special needs) and spending hours at that place. I'm sure it will bring back memories.
Edit: I'll look for your book.

The book is pretty much written - now what?

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