BBC writersroom feedback

Obviously waiting months for a reply from Writersroom hasn't taught you patience. Maybe if you'd posted this in Scripts, Stage and Screen forum, you might have received more answers. (I can move it there if you want.)

Sure, I submitted a script a couple of years back, just out of curiosity. More discerning readers would have hit the red alarm button that brought a gaggle of producers running (with their chequebooks). Alas...

I took some of the comments on board, so it wasn't a total waste of time, and they were very nice about it.

Bottom line, I haven't read of anyone being "discovered" via a submission to Writersroom, or otherwise recommended to and/or put in contact with producers, but that's not to say it hasn't happened.

Why BBC Writersroom doesn't behave more like a prodco and request loglines only, then a synopsis or sample pages if interested, and then the full script (i.e. filter out the rubbish rather of wasting time reading 110 pages of same) is one of life's great mysteries.

-Derek

dpaterso said:

Bottom line, I haven't read of anyone being "discovered" via a submission to Writersroom, or otherwise recommended to and/or put in contact with producers, but that's not to say it hasn't happened.

Why BBC Writersroom doesn't behave more like a prodco and request loglines only, then a synopsis or sample pages if interested, and then the full script (i.e. filter out the rubbish rather of wasting time reading 110 pages of same) is one of life's great mysteries.

-Derek

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I heard about some people winning workshops and contests sponsored or linked from the writersroom or local BBCs. It's rare, but it does happen.

Why they don't behave more like a prodco? They want to know you can write a complete script from the word go. They don't want to go through all the pages and loglines to find out you haven't finished yet -- the chance of which is pretty large considering the number of newbies around the place. Also, they're seeking writers more than scripts. If they like someone's writing, they might ask them to write for another show and never produce what was originally sent in.

Since I don't live in the UK it hasn't even occurred to me to try and submit anything to them.

icerose said:

Since I don't live in the UK it hasn't even occurred to me to try and submit anything to them.

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I don't live there either, but since I watch the BBC a lot, I guess I know the market. It's perfect for the story I want to pitch to them. My second choice of market would be someplace in Germany, but since my German isn't fluent, I hope to hit a market in a language I do speak and write.

Sure, I can get someone to translate, but I'm sure some jokes and things would bite the dust in the process.

I don't have anything applicable and can't get the BBC where I live. Heck, I can't even get any of the US stations for that matter. So it's really not a market for me.

I've been through it all with the WR. I've had the bugger off letter and I've also made it through to the highest echelons of power (). It is a bit of a PR exercise but there's success to be had if you're persistent.

First thing to note is, as Stijn Hommes said upthread, they're not looking for scripts or ideas. They're looking for writers they might *might* want to work with in future. It's entirely possible that a script could be read, bought and produced but this is in the vast, vast minority. I've certainly never heard of it happening.

A script I wrote went through the system which did very well and got me meetings with the head of the writersroom and the head of writersroom in Manchester as well as the head of continuing drama at the BBC itself. Both were sort of general introduction/chatty meetings but the idea is that you go in, say what you want to do (you need to be specific with this, as in, naming the shows you like/dislike, you career ambitions etc) and, in theory, they do their best to help you make it happen. They're not going to put you straight to work on any show no matter how good your writing is though and in the best case scenario, they'll put you on one of their shadow schemes or get you a trial for one of the existing shows. Be warned; this process is excruciatingly slow. My agent started prodding them for a trial on their most new writer-friendly show, the one most people start out on, and it took 12 months to get it.

The whole thing is certainly no better or worse than going through other production companies. They will read absolutely anything you send them but you are at the mercy of the readers who sit in an office and read scripts all day long. When I went in there was one wall just stacked with padded envelopes that hadn't even been opened yet.

So if you're looking for a way to get your writing onto existing shows at the BBC then it's a good route to go assuming you've got the work to back it all up. But if it's a case of submitting something original you're hoping will get made, it's a severe long shot. The only thing they'd probably be more willing to take a chance on with an unknown would be a sitcom because the BBC are desperate to make good sitcoms again.

Hope it helps, good luck.

If only I could write a reasonable sitcom...

I'm about to send the WR something in the next few days so we'll see what happens!

I'm also working on a TV pilot I'm planning to send to the BBC, and I have ideas for one more after that.

Reading Clockwork's comments is reducing my enthusiasm, since I live continents away from the UK. I grew up watching the BBC though, and see bits of their shows during all-too-short European holidays.
According to their web site, they read the first 10 pages and then decide whether to continue or throw away the thing.

Yeah, a script will (in the best case scenario) go through about six tiers of assessment as detailed here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/writersroom/writing/writersroom_flow.shtml

It's certainly the experience I had anyway. Sorry if I made it sound depressing; it's not my intention to deter anyone from sending things in. There's no harm in sending your work to them but you just have to be realistic about what your aspirations are and what they're expecting. In a world where new drama commissions are few and far between and the overwhelming majority come from production companies and established writers, getting a new series off the ground via this method is a seriously tough gig. The writersroom, in my opinion, is more about building relationships with writers and finding work for them on existing TV & radio shows. But even if all you get back are some notes, that is at least something you can use.

Enzo said:

Reading Clockwork's comments is reducing my enthusiasm, since I live continents away from the UK.

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Paul said:

b/ is it possible not to be living in London and still write for them, if chosen for other shows?

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It's not Hollywood people. All you have to do is deliver your words - on schedule. You could be half-way across the country or indeed the world for all they care. As long as you are a pleasure to work with, they won't care.

I based that answer on interviews I read with writers of a couple of British shows. Unless the writer was heavily involved with other parts of the show like directing or producing (for example: Russell T. Davies), they were not on-set on a regular basis when actual shooting began.

I know a guy who works on an ongoing medical drama and he has to be on site/ living close by to have the many unscheduled script meetings that take place, espeically as it is a series.

Paul said:

Hi Clockwork
Well that was an excellent and clear analysis of what i suspected. In my case it is sitcom, so that's something. but the bigger questions are these:
Did it lead to anything concrete for your good self (ie dollarinos)
and
b/ is it possible not to be living in London and still write for them, if chosen for other shows?

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a; yes but it's been fairly recently and the ink isn't dry yet.

b; yes, absolutely. These days notes, feedback and rewrites -- it's all done through emails and sometimes over the phone but mostly through emails. You can go through an entire episode and the script editor might never know where you are because it's not relevant. They just want your work to be of a certain quality and delivered on time. This certainly applies to continuing dramas. If you're writing an episode of Spooks or some other big one hour drama, it's more likely you'll go down/in for face to face stuff but isn't essential. And the UK is so small that even if you do have to go to London, there's nothing to stop you doing so. I've been down and back in a day for 20 minute meeting on several occasions and if you're working for them then they'll pay those expenses.

The other great thing is that London hosts so little production these days. None of the BBCs continuing dramas are produced there. Doctors is Birmingham, Holby City & Eastenders are Elstree and Borehamwood, Casualty, is Bristol, Doctor Who is Cardiff. And Manchester and Glasgow are fast becoming huge centres for production. London's where they write the cheques and read the news. You could write for many shows and never once have to visit the place.

BeeG said:

I know a guy who works on an ongoing medical drama and he has to be on site/ living close by to have the many unscheduled script meetings that take place, espeically as it is a series.

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It sounds like your friend is a story editor; someone who is involved in generating the content for the show. Naturally s/he would need to be on site because it's a different kind of job. They have to liaise with other editors and negotiate things like actor and location/set availability, clashing storylines and budget constraints, all 4-6 months in advance. A head or staff writer would also most likely be on site simply because of the volume of work they do. Not only do they generate scripts but they also do read-throughs and polishes on the freelance work that is coming in all the time. But staff writing jobs aren't easy to come by in the UK. They far favour the single writer approach to team/room writing and only really indulge it on their big continuing dramas where there's an enormous amount of content required.

So you can move wherever you want but if you're a freelancer (you write episodes on a commission basis) then no-one's going to say you have to move to London. For a lot of people it wouldn't be possible anyway. And of course, no matter how many you might want to write, there's a set limit to how many episodes of a particular show you can write given the development process. An episode of Doctors takes 6 weeks to write from time of commission to handing in the final draft. For the majority of that time you're at your desk, by yourself and as soon as one is done, there's no guarantee of another unless you can come up with a worthy idea. What I'm saying is, even if you struck gold each time, you could still only write about 8 episodes a year because of the nature of how the rewriting process works. It's just not worth uprooting your life to do that when you can do it all from where you are now.

Possible exceptions: you'd have to move if you got on the BBC Academy and you'd likely move if you had an original series created and you were to be heavily involved in the plotting of it but even then you'd be surprised. I know a producer who's currently script editing the new series of New Tricks and she does it all from her home about an hour and a half from London. She goes in now and then and she'll do so more during production but for the most part, emails as good as anything else.

BeeG said:

I know a guy who works on an ongoing medical drama and he has to be on site/ living close by to have the many unscheduled script meetings that take place, espeically as it is a series.

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There are very rarely unscheduled script meetings in my own experience with the BBC. I'm talking a few years ago now, but writers from Casualty could be from all over the UK. The writer is allocated a producer for their episode, and at the beginning of the new series they're also given the storylines for the episodes they'll be writing. This is done at a face to face meeting around the table with about three writers who've been chosen for a particular three episodes - those episodes could be 4,5 & 6, and will be most closely interconnected. The writer then goes off and writes a treatment-come-scene breakdown of the ep, and this is discussed/dissected with the producer over the phone. When happy, it goes to script. There may be one more face to face from there, ironing out problems for the rewrite, making sure the big events that could bleed into the next ep are well highlighted, and so on...

Very rarely is there *unscheduled* script meetings, although you may be talking about the US which is very different. But I can understand that if a particular writer does live close by, why then it could be beneficial for the producer to schedule a face to face. These can be a lot more productive than phone conferences and the likes.

I live over 400 miles from London, and I fly down regularly to the BBC. I've a meeting next Monday with a commissioning editor, someone I've worked with for the past two years. The BBC do not - and never have in my experience - employ on geographical location. They employ on the strength of the work. And beginners do tend to get a chance now and again. Best case scenario, they'll form a relationship with a certain script editor who really likes their work, and even if nothing comes out of the writers' room submissions, this script editor keeps in touch and is keen to develop something with them, something independent of the writers' room route. And a few years down the line this script editor could be a well respected producer/commissioning editor within the organisation. It happens.

ETA: Just noticed Clockwork's response. We crossed over. But what he's saying is spot on as to how the process works.

Yup. And living outside of London isn't a disadvantage really. I find it's always been a good icebreaker to talk about where you're from and what it's like. Producers know the landscape is such that writers exist and work happily all over the country these days.

Awful news: the BBC just decided to exclude all writers based overseas.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/writersroom/

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I just finished the first draft of what should have been the first TV pilot I wanted to send to the BBC, to be followed by a second one. So that's been a waste of time.

Any idea where our scripts should go now? I've always been a fan of Australian children's television, but that would require a lot of changes to the story not to mention the fact that postal services going across the world will not be fast to say the least.

Perhaps I should emigrate, although I don't think the BBC deserves my effort anymore...

Eh... sadly, this doesn't surprise me at all. Like I said upthread, the writersroom isn't about finding scripts to make, it's about finding writers to work with. The writers they do work with, 99% of the time, will start working on BBC radio productions or their half hour show Doctors. I can only think of a handful of exceptions. If you get through the filtering process, which can take at least 6 months by itself, it can take many months more, even years to actually get paid to write something for radio or on Doctors. You'll never be put straight to work on something - they will always want to get to know you first either through reading more of your work or face-to-face. That's hard enough to keep alive for people who live in the UK (trust me on that), so I can't imagine how hard it would be to do if you live overseas.

It's a shame they're doing it, I can totally understand the frustration but I suspect that given how they develop writers, the number of people they work with who are permanently based overseas is very small.

I think there will be ways around it for the determined writers out there.