What religion are you?
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I don't practice anything right now, but I'm aware of my deep-dyed Catholic perspective on most of my life, as hard as I've tried to distance myself from the Church and some of its positions. I'd like to be something else besides a lapsed Catholic, but I don't know if I can. There's a quote from some book--"These people do so treat God like He's their first cousin", and I feel that, irrationally and strongly, when I've tried to go to church elsewhere. Maybe I just haven't found the right place.
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I was born Methodist (baptized as such at a couple of weeks old), then attended Catholic masses sporadically after my mother converted.
As an adult, I believe in God. Beyond that, I'm not really any particular flavor of Christian.
As an adult, I believe in God. Beyond that, I'm not really any particular flavor of Christian.
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I don't quite understand this. You mean, the people in other churches treat God as if he's their first cousin -- is that a bad thing? How do Catholics treat God?
Aruna, that was probably poorly worded on my part.
I don't think it's a bad or good thing, aruna, it just is a thing that's not terribly comfortable for me given my background and temperament. When I attend, say, a friend's Methodist church, I miss the mystery and communal nature of Catholic worship. (Please, I'm not disrespecting Methodists or American Protestants of any stripe). Protestant worship is more individualistic and tends to emphasize the separation of man and God--again, not a bad thing, just a different thing. And because there's no worldwide
ancient Protestant tradition like the Mass, churches can design their own services and the result varies IME along with the congregation.
In context, the "first cousin" quote was the character's jab at the theological notion of having a personal relationship with God; this idea is not as popular among practicing Catholics.
I don't think it's a bad or good thing, aruna, it just is a thing that's not terribly comfortable for me given my background and temperament. When I attend, say, a friend's Methodist church, I miss the mystery and communal nature of Catholic worship. (Please, I'm not disrespecting Methodists or American Protestants of any stripe). Protestant worship is more individualistic and tends to emphasize the separation of man and God--again, not a bad thing, just a different thing. And because there's no worldwide
ancient Protestant tradition like the Mass, churches can design their own services and the result varies IME along with the congregation.
In context, the "first cousin" quote was the character's jab at the theological notion of having a personal relationship with God; this idea is not as popular among practicing Catholics.
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johnnysannie
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Oh, really? Hmm...news to me as a practicing and lifelong Catholic. It seems that most of the devout church going, Mass attending Catholics that I know all have a deep dessire to have a personal relationship with God, to know Him more and in a fuller fashion. While we may not want to treat Him like a first cousin at a family reunion picnic or wear those funky little bracelets that say WWJD, we are drawn into an ever closer, very personal relationship. We do those little things like Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament that bring us closer to God, spend Lent drawing closer and more personal to God, and much more.
I probably wasn't clear. In Catholicism, that relationship is mediated by things like adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, the sacraments themselves, and most specifically the priest as celebrant of the Mass itself. In Protestantism, there is no intermediary in the conversation between one and God, which is a profound difference.
Really? I pray this every evening.
I love you my Jesus with my whole heart. I repent of ever offending you. Never permit me to offend you again. Grant I may love you always, then do with me what you will.
No priest, no intermediary. Just me and my Savior.
Oh, and I am a baptized life long Catholic.
My father who was a convert to Catholicism had a deep devotion to the Virgin Mary. He once told me that on judgement day I would stand alone before God. No mother or father, no grandparents to beg His mercy for me. Just me and Jesus--and if I'm lucky His Mother will be there too. His Mother on behalf of whom he performed His first miracle. His Mother at the foot of His Cross and whom he addressed in His agony. Not a bad intermediary, eh? I never forgot that.
C
I love you my Jesus with my whole heart. I repent of ever offending you. Never permit me to offend you again. Grant I may love you always, then do with me what you will.
No priest, no intermediary. Just me and my Savior.
Oh, and I am a baptized life long Catholic.
My father who was a convert to Catholicism had a deep devotion to the Virgin Mary. He once told me that on judgement day I would stand alone before God. No mother or father, no grandparents to beg His mercy for me. Just me and Jesus--and if I'm lucky His Mother will be there too. His Mother on behalf of whom he performed His first miracle. His Mother at the foot of His Cross and whom he addressed in His agony. Not a bad intermediary, eh? I never forgot that.
C
What I was trying to get at was the tonal differences between the worship styles, which are striking to me. Maybe just my own slice of life.
I am a Pagan High Priestess, a proud Jew and an atheist (or should I say, polyatheist since I don't believe in any of the Gods.)
I'm OK with anyone believing in anything they want as long as they don't impose it on me or other people who aren't interested. But literal belief in a deity, well I just can't do it. Treat holy books as metaphors and I'm good with that.
For me, faith is not necessary. What's important is experience, what I can learn from that experience and action in helping others and repairing the world.
I'm OK with anyone believing in anything they want as long as they don't impose it on me or other people who aren't interested. But literal belief in a deity, well I just can't do it. Treat holy books as metaphors and I'm good with that.
For me, faith is not necessary. What's important is experience, what I can learn from that experience and action in helping others and repairing the world.
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johnnysannie
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You obviously do not understand the nature of Catholicism or how we worship which is unfortunate. Most Protestants do not.
We have no intermediary between ourselves and God. We can and do pray directly to God even during Mass. Perhaps you should sit in on a service to find out rather than make judgements on a random basis.
I have attended various services in other Christian faiths and the major difference that I see between Catholic Mass and a Protestant Sunday service is that we have an interactive service in which we are joint participants with the priest but the Protestant services are basically dictacted by one man's sole interpretation of Scripture and his views upon it. The Protestant services I have attended were not interactive other than during the song service in which all joined but in my worship, the entire present body is part of an active and ongoing dialogue to God.
That is the difference and it is profound but it has nothing to do with the notion that Catholics cannot and do not approach God without an intermediary which is and has always been quite incorrect.
I would suggest that you do not understand Protestant worship anymore than many Protestants understand Catholic worship. I would further suggest that making sweeping statements about others' worship practices, while correcting sweeping statements about yours, seriously undermines your position.
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I'm a Methodist and I attend the traditional service.
I was raised non-denominational, charismatic, contemporary Christianity. I think it messed me up in some ways. Because I then went ultra-conservative Southern Baptist. I found Traditional Methodist is the balance between the two extremes I have been in earlier.
I was raised non-denominational, charismatic, contemporary Christianity. I think it messed me up in some ways. Because I then went ultra-conservative Southern Baptist. I found Traditional Methodist is the balance between the two extremes I have been in earlier.
johnnysannie
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I don't postulate about what various Protestant denominations do in worship nor do I ever contradict what a Protestant says about their own faith.
I do, however, take umbrage when Protestants presume to understand and describe Catholicism.
And I have, on many occasions, attended Protestant church services while the majority of Protestants have never attended a Catholic Mass.
It is not I who made the sweeping statements regarding the beliefs and practices of others but who rose in defense of more misconceptions and uninformed nonsense about the Catholic faith. What I stated is what I have observed while attending Protestant services and not quoting from a Chic tract or some other anti-Catholic piece of propaganda.
I stand by what I said; I made no "sweeping statements" and nothing that I said was as offensive as the posts made about Catholic belief and Catholic faith in action.
I'm a Christian. My object in life is to become as much a "little Christ" as possible. What church or denomination I attend has little to do with it.
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Agreed -- we're here to explain, gently and in a Friendly way. But even the misconceptions, if stated in an appropriately respectful way, are useful to read, especially for folks like me who are interested in the history and development of Christian theology through and beyond the Reformation.
I think it is a generally true statement that the need for an intermediary, such as a priest administering sacraments, to mediate the relationship between an individual and God is one thing that separates Catholic and Protestant theology. For example, a non-ordained Catholic cannot celebrate Mass. (A mass celebrated by a priest alone with no congregation present at all was a common thing, at least centuries ago.) The view of what the Eucharist actually represents is also a stark divide -- for example, transubstantiation vs consubstantiation vs memorial meal.
But many, perhaps most, folks don't really know (or don't feel they need to know) the ins and outs of theological history and dogma. Yet it can be quite rewarding. For Lutherans, Martin Luther left behind a large body of writings. Catholics, of course, are heirs to an enormous theological literature, a lot of which is now available (and searchable) online. For my own faith community, it will take me a good, long time to get through the writings of George Fox, John Woolman, and others.
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Then perhaps you can understand the umbrage taken when you describe Protestant worship as:
and
You really have no idea what such a worship service means to the other worshipers in attendance.
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Peace, my Friend. No one is, or should be, posting in judgment of anything. If they misunderstand, explain.
I spent nearly 4 years of my life studying the history of the medieval and late-medieval Catholic church, but am not Catholic. And there is a great deal that I don't know, especially if it happened after, say 1700 or so. I would remind you, though, that the term "Protestant" probably describes a far more heterogeneous collection of theological beliefs than does the term "Catholic." So it's tough to generalize much.
johnnysannie
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As a matter of fact, I do. I have family members who are non-Catholics and my husband - who chose to join the Catholic Church - was raised Baptist. I have attended church services on many occasions with his family members and understand quite well what the service means to them.
You might find it interesting to note that I shared my description of a Protestant service to my husband who considered it very accurate from his unique point of view, raised in the Protestant church and then becoming Catholic in his fourth decade of life.
johnnysannie
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Then for semantics sake, make it "When non-Catholics who know nothing of the Catholic Faith presume to understand and describe Catholicism."
Party hearty.
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Presently, I am a non-denominational, pentecostal. I have attended Charismatic Catholic, Messianic Jew and a whole lot of other types of charismatic/pentecostal services.
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