The Newer Never-Ending PublishAmerica Thread

[JulieB]

Originally Posted by DreamWeaver

Why would another writer recommend a were-tiger to you?

You don't know Gill. ;-)

[Sepisllib]

Their shipping is a major surprise each time. The very first order I made with them the shipping was $399.00 and the books were $381.38

That was my first indication that - hey, something isn't quite right here. But - by that time I had already told my friends and family that I was going to give them a copy and etc.

While things like this certainly won't break me - I do not appreciate the deceit.

God Bless

Bill

[Sepisllib]

Just received a turn down for book 3 this week. Have book 4 out to a couple places and nothing on it yet. My book 5 is still being edited and I am holding it until I feel it is closer to being worthy. Book 6 is being reviewed as we speak and my book 7 is nearing completion.

No - I am certainly not sitting around licking my wounds for # 1 and # 2 as I now realize PA has all but destroyed them. While I have a copy of each sitting on my shelves I can only say they are there and in hard copy - I certainly am not proud of either one because of numerous issues including the PA inserted mistakes and typos.

In meantime - to all out there - God Bless and to PA, God help you.

Bill

[Don Davidson]

Originally Posted by GothicKnight

Just received another email, and they took the time to tell me how great they are, and why I should get in bed with them. I was told the websites I referred to "have long ago lost credibility" and they are "rarely taken seriously." I had to note, however, the email failed to address any of the specific concerns I mentioned.

I received the same email--with those same words that you quoted--on May 29, 2008 (almost 2 years ago) when I refused to pay PA $300 to terminate the contract. You can read the email on the PA page of my web site, if you so desire. It's clearly a canned response.

[James D. Macdonald]

Originally Posted by GothicKnight

since the first 2K units sold will net the author an astonishing 8%.

That's 8% of net, too. Not cover price like most legitimate publishers.

[christwriter]

Originally Posted by Gillhoughly

Since Gill has a tax number for her online store, those 25 copies count as royalty sales. These look good to the publisher's bean counters when Gill's agent brings a new book proposal to the table.




.

And in a not-completely related aside ... so THAT'S why you'd want royalties off books you buy yourself. Okay, now I get it (Kinda-sorta-maybe.)

I knew if I stuck around long enough, I'd get an answer.

Speaking of crunching the numbers, is 8% anywhere near what a typical royalty would be? For some reason the preceeding few posts made me start thinking about what a standard author advance (which I understand to start somewhere between $2k-$5k) equals in terms of a publisher's sales expectations (as I understand this, and DO correct me if I'm wrong, the advance reflects the number of books a publisher expects to sell in the next twelve months). Also ... royalties are usually based on cover price, and off gross, not net, correct?

If all of the above is correct, 8% of 2k books at a $25 cover price = $4k, which looks like it falls pretty square in the middle of what I understood a first time advance is. Also, if all of the above is correct ... damn, that's not a lot of books sold in a year. My expectations just got torpedoed.

[Gillhoughly]

The tax number is for my online bookstore.

I registered a "doing business as" for my county, got a tax number, and I give that to the publisher when I buy books.

Since none of those I buy are ever returned, they get me a royalty.

Here's what's on one of my contracts:

Royalties for trade hardcover edition:
10% of first 5K sold
12.5% on next 5K sold
15% on all copies of the work sold thereafter

Royalties for mass market paperback:
8% on all copies of the work sold.

Royalties for trade paperback:
6% on the first 25K copies sold
7.5% on all copies sold thereafter.

I get separate deals (and advances) for audio books and contracts with foreign publishers. E-books are a whole 'nother thing, and I'm not squinting my way through the fine print to find it, but I do know I didn't pay any money to make that happen. That's the publisher's job.


One's advance is calculated on how many copies a publisher expects to sell.

A debut author--unless he was line-edited by and has a glowing cover quote from a bestselling author with clout--usually gets a low four figures. If the book looks to be an exceptional work, the number goes up.

An author with a track record will get paid more if past sales indicate he did well. If his book tanked, they won't offer him a second contract.

Many mass market paperbacks get a print run of 5K copies. If they sell out, a second printing takes place and everyone is happy.

If they don't sell out--it happens--be assured, the publishers made their profit. The writer's advance is their smallest expense.

One of my pals was cut loose by a house which complained "you only sold 3000 copies." Turned out, that's ALL they printed. Most publishers love a 100% sell through with no returns, but not this bunch.

They're prolly kicking themselves now. She's on the NYT bestseller list and her YA series is outselling the Twilight series in the UK.

Of course, PA writers don't have to worry about ANY of that.

[christwriter]

No shit, they don't.

But it's probably pretty valuable for comparison purposes ... with, ya know, ANYBODY. 'Cause this is not what the general public expects. Or at least, not what I expected. And I've done a ton of reading (in order to avoid actually having to work, like I'm doing right now.)

In fact, the only reason I knew to ask that question (average royalty and its function in determining an advance) what because of all that reading. Of the people I have met, a grand total of zero would know to ask this. (Also, most of them ask me 1. when I will be done and 2. why is it taking so long for me to get published? I finished the book years ago. I'd cheerfully hurt them, if I hadn't had the same expectations they had when I wrote "the end" way back when)

Anybody who outsells Twilight deserves cookies, and a small statue in every library.

[Sepisllib]

It continues.

I now send them letters, without return address information, so that forces them to at least "open" the letters. Here was my reply today ---- only thing is, "My" contract does NOT state anything about correspondence by e-mails.

************************************************** ********
PublishAmerica Author Support <support@publishamerica.com> Thu, May 13, 2010 at 8:17 AM To: xxxxxxx@gmail.com
Dear Bill:

Again we repeat: instructions for contract termination were already sent to you. Did you receive them?

Your letter did not reach the intended recipient, and it will not be directed anywhere within the company. Our author support team, only, answers all such queries. Paper letters, both registered and unregistered, go only to the support team just as email letters. They are not directed anywhere else within the company, and they are not given priority.

As we made clear when you signed our contract, we would like you to please use email as your means of contacting us. This way we can respond to your issues much more quickly and efficiently.

Again we repeat: instructions for contract termination were already sent to you. Did you receive them?

PublishAmerica Author Support
support@publishamerica.com
************************************************** ******

God Bless

Bill

[James D. Macdonald]

Originally Posted by Gillhoughly

One of my pals was cut loose by a house which complained "you only sold 3000 copies." Turned out, that's ALL they printed. Most publishers love a 100% sell through with no returns, but not this bunch.

100% sell-through means the publisher didn't print enough copies. Figure on 60% sell-through for paperbacks and 70% sell-through for hardcover ... and when they go over that, go back to press.


Two or three thousand sold for a first novel? Nothing to write home about, but not unexpected. The numbers to watch are on the second novel.

(And Gill, your friend was well rid of that first bunch.)

[Sepisllib]

I just added to the pile of complaints the Maryland AG has stacked on his desk.

It's too bad that they do not see fit to provide some level of protection to their citizens. The very least they could do is make a warning to their citizens the nature of the beast, AKA Publish America LLLP.

God Bless

Bill

[ResearchGuy]

Originally Posted by Sepisllib

I just added to the pile of complaints the Maryland AG has stacked on his desk.

It's too bad that they do not see fit to provide some level of protection to their citizens. The very least they could do is make a warning to their citizens the nature of the beast, AKA Publish America LLLP.

God Bless

Bill

As has been discussed here time and again, like it or not, agree or not, it is a business-to-business transaction between the contracting author and PA, and consumer-protection agencies do NOT deal with those. PA's deceptions and tawdry performance are irrelevant to that fact.

Complicating matters, believe it or not, some PA authors are happy with their transactions. I know some such people. You can dispute until you are blue in the face whether they should be satisfied, but they ARE.

--Ken

[Queen of Swords]

Originally Posted by Sepisllib

It's too bad that they do not see fit to provide some level of protection to their citizens. The very least they could do is make a warning to their citizens the nature of the beast, AKA Publish America LLLP.

But there are multiple warnings about PA on the web, including specifics about how they've cheated authors on the royalties due to them.

I'm just not clear on how the Maryland Attorney General can get any such warning out, especially if people are not interested in hearing it or not aware that they should listen to such warnings (you don't know what you don't know, after all).

[brianm]

Originally Posted by Sepisllib

I just added to the pile of complaints the Maryland AG has stacked on his desk.

Waste of his and your time.

It's too bad that they do not see fit to provide some level of protection to their citizens. The very least they could do is make a warning to their citizens the nature of the beast, AKA Publish America LLLP.

There are some states that would consider the relationship between PA and its authors to be that of a business to consumer relationship. The state of Maryland is not one them and that's why you find a number of questionable businesses operating out of Maryland and Delaware.

~brianm~

[Don Davidson]

Originally Posted by ResearchGuy

As has been discussed here time and again, like it or not, agree or not, it is a business-to-business transaction between the contracting author and PA, and consumer-protection agencies do NOT deal with those. PA's deceptions and tawdry performance are irrelevant to that fact.

Complicating matters, believe it or not, some PA authors are happy with their transactions. I know some such people. You can dispute until you are blue in the face whether they should be satisfied, but they ARE.

--Ken

Sad but true on both counts. I have the letter from Maryland's AG in response to my complaint posted on the PA page of my web site. It's a one-pager stating that they do not consider this to be a consumer issue, so they can't get involved. They referred me to the BBB, but I had already tried that avenue. On the positive side, though, the BBB has given PA a rating of "F" (the lowest possible) because of all of the complaints against the company. Here's the link to it, if you are interested:

http://www.bbb.org/greater-maryland/...ck-md-32010985

[Sepisllib]

Yes. I knew that before I sent the letter, however as I noted all I am doing is adding my name to that long list. One never knows when the point is reached that "someone" will begin to get tired of the complaints and initiate an investigation.

Other than that - it is simply but one (1) of my avenues - that are many more awaiting.

Yes --- God Bless to all and God help PA

Bill

[Josh1971]

So Bill- what did you include in your letter to request termination. I was an idiot way back when, and had the lack of sense to allow them to publish two of my stories. They have sold dismally, and I want out of the contract on both of them.

The letters I've crafted are polite, and simply state that I want to be released from both contracts for a number of reasons (which I spell out to them), but mostly because they are not selling, I'm not going to promote them anymore, and that this whole thing is an IRS nightmare for me, which could lead back to them.

Hopefully, this will finally get me out of these contracts, so I can get on with finding a real publisher for my fantasy adventure series.

JB

[Arkie]

Originally Posted by Josh1971

So Bill- what did you include in your letter to request termination. I was an idiot way back when, and had the lack of sense to allow them to publish two of my stories. They have sold dismally, and I want out of the contract on both of them.

The letters I've crafted are polite, and simply state that I want to be released from both contracts for a number of reasons (which I spell out to them), but mostly because they are not selling, I'm not going to promote them anymore, and that this whole thing is an IRS nightmare for me, which could lead back to them.

Hopefully, this will finally get me out of these contracts, so I can get on with finding a real publisher for my fantasy adventure series.

JB

I'm not Bill, but I got released seemingly using your reasoning. I told them the book had stopped selling, I was moving on to other things, and I thought it would be in their best interest to release me as they would not have to continue to maintain royalty records for me.

I will say this: once they get an author in their clutches, they want to squeeze as much money out of them as possible. I think for those authors that don't buy books or sell a few on their own, they will hold on to that author hoping he will eventually fall for one of their discount promotions and buy a few books, for author's purchases of their own books, is PA's main source of revenue. PA books as a rule will not sell without author heavy involvement in promotion at the local level. I wish you luck.

[Josh1971]

Originally Posted by Arkie

I'm not Bill, but I got released seemingly using your reasoning. I told them the book had stopped selling, I was moving on to other things, and I thought it would be in their best interest to release me as they would not have to continue to maintain royalty records for me.

I will say this: once they get an author in their clutches, they want to squeeze as much money out of them as possible. I think for those authors that don't buy books or sell a few on their own, they will hold on to that author hoping he will eventually fall for one of their discount promotions and buy a few books, for author's purchases of their own books, is PA's main source of revenue. PA books as a rule will not sell without author heavy involvement in promotion at the local level. I wish you luck.

Well no worries there- I haven't bought a book from them since about 2003, and I *may* have sold 1 or 2 copies after I warned all my friends off of them by about 2005.

What does it mean when you can't even find one of the books on the site? I can't find the first one on their site at all, so does that mean its been discontinued? Does the contract even still matter on that one?

In any event, I'll probably send off my polite email to them tonight, asking to be released. They stand to gain no profit from me or those books.

[Terie]

Josh, if you haven't bought a book from them since 'about 2003', doesn't that mean your 7 years is almost up? Or did you miss it and now the contract has rolled over for another 7 years? You need to check your contract RIGHT NOW about the rights renewal. If the 7-year period is coming up, cancelling the contract is perfectly easy.

Check. Right. Now!

And good luck.

[Josh1971]

Originally Posted by Terie

Josh, if you haven't bought a book from them since 'about 2003', doesn't that mean your 7 years is almost up? Or did you miss it and now the contract has rolled over for another 7 years? You need to check your contract RIGHT NOW about the rights renewal. If the 7-year period is coming up, cancelling the contract is perfectly easy.

Check. Right. Now!

And good luck.

I'll dig out the contract and check on the renewal, but that book isn't even listed on their website anymore. I searched using several different terms and the ISBN number, and nothing...

In any event, I sent them a tactful, polite, professional email requesting termination of the contracts for numerous reasons that maybe they'll find compelling, maybe not. We'll see.

In the mean time, I'm getting out the contracts anyway to take to my attorney- who, it so happens, is a guy who specializes in contracts.

[Terie]

Originally Posted by Josh1971

I'll dig out the contract and check on the renewal, but that book isn't even listed on their website anymore. I searched using several different terms and the ISBN number, and nothing...

Ooo! Maybe you're lucky and your contract was one of the early ones that specified the contract didn't renew unless both parties agreed. You might well be out of it already. Fingers crossed for you, dude.

[Sepisllib]

Originally Posted by Josh1971

So Bill- what did you include in your letter to request termination. I was an idiot way back when, and had the lack of sense to allow them to publish two of my stories. They have sold dismally, and I want out of the contract on both of them.

The letters I've crafted are polite, and simply state that I want to be released from both contracts for a number of reasons (which I spell out to them), but mostly because they are not selling, I'm not going to promote them anymore, and that this whole thing is an IRS nightmare for me, which could lead back to them.

Hopefully, this will finally get me out of these contracts, so I can get on with finding a real publisher for my fantasy adventure series.

JB

This is what I am sending them, or a very similar version of it, every week. So far all they can do is nothing but send demands back to use e-mail (which is NOT in my contract) and demands for buying xxx number of books first.
************************************************** *******
Ref: Contract Release Request


Dear Mr. Clopper:

I am, again, asking for your stamp of approval releasing both contracts I presently have with Publish America LLLP on my books “Golden Grass” and also “The Velvet Rocking Chair.”

There is no need for delineation of the reasons, just know I shall be unable to promote, or purchase, any further copies of either.

Please send written confirmation of the termination of my two contracts to the following address.

Bill

************************************************** ************


I agree with one poster though - they, PA, play the squeeze game in hopes of us,

the authors, giving up and buying to get out. Only problem is whether or not one
would actually "get" the books they paid for.


God Bless


Bill

[Gillhoughly]

release me as they would not have to continue to maintain royalty records for me.

Um--you just may have struck gold with that detail.

That's one that never occurred to me.

The less work they have to do, the better they like it.

[Sarashay]

Look what I saw at the top of my Gmail inbox just now:

Book publishing - www.publishamerica.com - Avoid stigma of paying a publisher! We want your book, not your money.

They're not just targeting searches, they're actively trolling for business via Google ads and LYING BLATANTLY when doing so.