Things that make you scream in YA
- Thread starter Dusky
- Start date
- Status
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2010
- Messages
- 272
- Reaction score
- 34
- Location
- New York State
- Website
- www.phoebenorth.com
God, I need to read this. You guys are hyping it all over the place!
Coming from a one-parent household myself, writing diverse families is also something I've struggled with. My own perception of the issue is that kids in the kid's to MG range (so, pre-puberty) tend to accept and love their family no matter what form it takes. However, during adolescence they tend to begin to see the differences between their family and others, and this is where conflict with parents often arises. Even in traditional nuclear families, relationships get thornier during and after puberty. So, like some of the posters above, I'm more skeptical of overtly rosy relationships than complicated ones.
Also, I was a latchkey kid in many ways myself, so those absent parents? They ring true to me. But I think latchkey parenting is rarer even in the case of single-parents these days. It's just not as socially acceptable to leave kids alone all the time.
This is where a person's prior experience enters into the reading process in an interesting way, I think. I was not only a latchkey kid, but I was left alone at night at a much earlier age than most of my friends would have been thanks to having a single parent who worked night shifts. That meant I got used to having virtually no supervision for what amounted to fairly long stretches of time (again, compared to most of the kids I knew at that age).
The idea of having two parents constantly breathing down my neck was already completely alien to me by the time I was about twelve. That means if I read a book with a character in that situation, I have pretty much no idea whether the experience being described is 'normal' or unconventional.
That's an important problem for authors to take into account. You can't base your characters' experiences on what's 'normal' for a large swathe of the population and just assume that people outside of that group will still be able to put themselves into the shoes of those characters. It's worth taking into account that a lot of people will read what you consider to be a completely unproblematic parent/teen relationship and have a hard time identifying with it precisely because it's so straightforward.
(Wow, that got long-winded. tl;dr - don't make unwarranted assumptions.)
The Sweep series by Cate Tiernan had fairly well done parents who strike a balance of present and loving but also provide conflict/inadvertantly make things worse by caring. I highly recommend this series even if it's old.
Though not prettier than Zogar the Salamander's. Zoe contemplates Zogar's beady black eyes, reflecting upon how they resemble two glistening, midnight pearls-- pearls derived from the blackest heart of a volcano in the middle of the lush jungles of Africa. She can imagine the fanning leaves swaying overhead, and her shirtless designated love interest gazing into her eyes intensely, just as he'd done in the dream she'd had about him before they even met. He told her in a husky voice, thick with desire, "Choose me. Choose me, not Other Love Interest, my love, for I'll gladly throw my broken corpse at your feet, just for a single, tantalizing moment of your lips against my own."
And then to Zoe's shock, she turns from the mirror and beholds-- alas! Designated Love Interest himself is gazing intently through the window! Before her breath can steal back into her straining lungs, Designated Love Interest whispers, "Choose me. Choose me, not Other Love Interest, dear Zoe, for I'll gladly throw my broken--"
"Yeah, you said that already," Zoe interrupts, suddenly bored, and snaps the blinds closed between them. The End.
- Joined
- Jul 10, 2009
- Messages
- 4,088
- Reaction score
- 724
- Age
- 32
I think teen-parent relationships are pretty important, but they're not getting that needed representation or attention in YA. In most cases, parents in YA are cardboard cut-outs, not real people, so the relationships they have with teens can't help but fall flat too.
Personally, I'd rather see teen-parent conflict than no-parents-syndrome I see in YA books the majority of the time. It's just so easy to shove parents off into the corner and have the teen MC do whatever, but I don't know--I think parents deserve more time on-page than they're getting now.
Parents don't disappear IRL if there's a problem. What's the reasoning (other than an easier way around plot) for them to disappear in fiction?
Personally, I'd rather see teen-parent conflict than no-parents-syndrome I see in YA books the majority of the time. It's just so easy to shove parents off into the corner and have the teen MC do whatever, but I don't know--I think parents deserve more time on-page than they're getting now.
Parents don't disappear IRL if there's a problem. What's the reasoning (other than an easier way around plot) for them to disappear in fiction?
Last edited:
Sometimes it feels to me that inexperienced or hack authors can't find a good balance between emotionally dead go-getters (I.E, characters that actually do things, but feel nothing) and emotionally blubbery fuckwits who can't tie their shoelaces without help (I.E, characters that don't do things, but feel stuff).
There is this thing called...BALANCE!
There is this thing called...BALANCE!
QFT!!
Zombie, have you ever read the books of pellinor by Alison Croggon (high fantasy series)? I found her books to be just brilliant - well written, whole flawed characters and world building that was complex and deep! Very inspired by Ursula LeGuin's Earthsea series
Last edited:
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2008
- Messages
- 1,016
- Reaction score
- 66
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2010
- Messages
- 1,728
- Reaction score
- 275
- Location
- CLE / Wonderland
- Website
- www.lydiasharp.blogspot.com
Here's another:
My husband just finished it. He loved it. He's now reading book two. These are the first YA anything I've seen him read since I've known him... about 16 years. He didn't even read YA when he was a YA. That's how good this book is.
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2010
- Messages
- 1,728
- Reaction score
- 275
- Location
- CLE / Wonderland
- Website
- www.lydiasharp.blogspot.com
The MC of the novel I'm currently querying has two moms, and she's an only child. It's a total estrogen-overload.
Okay, I know we're not all geniuses like J. Michael Stravinsky...but could we do more worldbuilding before we write something?
Who is JMS? Well, he is the genius who wrote Babylon 5. Now the nice thing about Babylon 5 is that the entire five year series was planned out IN ADVANCE. Things that are referenced in the first season become important and are carried throughout the later seasons. It's brilliant and awesome.
See, I'm sick of stories that become a trilogy or something and the author quite obviously throws in new things via crude retcons. I'm looking at you, JK Rowling and to a lesser extent Susanna Collins - really, only for the QQ thing, the rest of the series was fine.
Is it really so hard to build a coherent world that will sustain your series?
...yes.
Yes it is.
But I still want more people to do it.
Who is JMS? Well, he is the genius who wrote Babylon 5. Now the nice thing about Babylon 5 is that the entire five year series was planned out IN ADVANCE. Things that are referenced in the first season become important and are carried throughout the later seasons. It's brilliant and awesome.
See, I'm sick of stories that become a trilogy or something and the author quite obviously throws in new things via crude retcons. I'm looking at you, JK Rowling and to a lesser extent Susanna Collins - really, only for the QQ thing, the rest of the series was fine.
Is it really so hard to build a coherent world that will sustain your series?
...yes.
Yes it is.
But I still want more people to do it.
There are things in HP that bother me, but world-building and the connectivity of the series certainly wasn't one of them
She quite obviously had the whole series planned out ahead of time, as shown by seemingly insignificant references in the first few books that become important many books later. Not sure where you're coming from there... But, to each their own
Also, Suzanne Collins had the HG planned as a trilogy, according to her editors at SCBWI LA, and I don't think it was a coincidence that it's the 74th Hunger Games in book 1, so the QQ isn't really out of nowhere either.
It wasn't out of NOWHERE, but I would have liked one sentence. Like, "Well, it could have been worse...I could have been picked NEXT year."
Then the next book would be ironic-er!
Then the next book would be ironic-er!
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2010
- Messages
- 272
- Reaction score
- 34
- Location
- New York State
- Website
- www.phoebenorth.com
YES!
I've loved epic story arcs ever since seventh grade, when I was a big fan of this really bad Nickelodeon show, Space Cases. Only two seasons were ever produced, but it was supposed to have a sweeping, five-year story arc. And the writers? Peter David (writer of many Star Trek licensed novels) and Bill Mumy, who worked on Babylon 5.
There's nothing worse than a sloppy story arc. Well, maybe one thing--unfinished story arcs. But I do feel like many perfectly self-contained YA stories are being stretched beyond their capacity by the demand for trilogies and series.
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2008
- Messages
- 539
- Reaction score
- 39
- Age
- 39
- Location
- New Zealand
- Website
- catherine-haines.com
There are things in HP that bother me, but world-building and the connectivity of the series certainly wasn't one of them
Yeah, when you can see a huge hint to the events of the Astronomy Tower at the end of book six placed right near the start one book one, can't say she didn't plan it out...
I've been thinking a lot about this lately. I'm sure there are good financial reasons to pump out a series or a trilogy, but when you take a story that could barely fill a single book and stretch it out to three or more, its quality will inevitably suffer. I also question whether a lot of first-time authors are capable of producing a decent trilogy, but that's another issue...
Yesss. It annoys me so much when that happens.
But, I also know a few authors who wrote a first novel as a standalone, it was published and became popular, and then their editors told them they wanted sequels, and wouldn't consider other manuscripts instead. Sure, they could refuse or find a new editor, but I can understand why you might decide to write as previously-unplanned sequel if you really like your editor and they wanted you to do it.
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2008
- Messages
- 1,016
- Reaction score
- 66
If this happened to me, I'd try to cheat. "Yeah...same world, different characters, 500 years later." "No, see, it's about the MC's kid." "This is what would happen if my characters were transplanted to this other universe." It probably wouldn't work, but I'd try.
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2010
- Messages
- 48
- Reaction score
- 2
- Location
- Mexico City, Mexico.
- Website
- huesodeliebre.wordpress.com
I see nothing wrong with using the same world you've created for some more books as long as there's a story to be told.
Look at the Discworld novels. They're like 30 or something, and each is quite unique even if it's the same world and the same characters. But even Pratchett got tired of it eventually and decided to take a break and write different things!
As always, it's about balance and being true to yourself. Do you really have a new story to tell in that world? Or are you just looking for an easy set-up that doesn't need much work? (the "It's the MC's kid!!" enters here)
Look at the Discworld novels. They're like 30 or something, and each is quite unique even if it's the same world and the same characters. But even Pratchett got tired of it eventually and decided to take a break and write different things!
As always, it's about balance and being true to yourself. Do you really have a new story to tell in that world? Or are you just looking for an easy set-up that doesn't need much work? (the "It's the MC's kid!!" enters here)
That's true, and I certainly wouldn't fault anybody for going along with their editor's requests rather than running the risk of delaying (or ending) their career after their first book.
Even still, I can't really imagine trying to write a sequel to a book that was never supposed to have one. I'd be terrified that it would end up sucking, which would be another quick way to undo all the good of getting that first book published.
Haha, yeah, I was actually thinking the same thing. 'No, no, it is a sequel, it's just set so far in the future that you can't tell. Honest!'
- Status